Stranger in a strange land ...

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I've been a ham 50 years. I was 13, reading QST and Popular Electronics underneath the sheets by flashlight, after hearing my mother scream to turn out the lights and go to sleep. Nah, I wanted to read about the Novice stations and their pursuit of WAS and WAC using NC-303's, HQ-110's, and Globe Scouts. I dreamed of one day owning a Viking Ranger and working the world. I wanted to be an engineer. I grew up .. went to Stanford, and got a PhD. 

I don't have issue with tweaking the tuning on my antenna tuner and amplifier. I don't mind manually switching antennas, using a bug, slepping QSL cards to the Post Office, calling CQ to find a kindred-spirit worthy of an hour long chat, or hoping to find an RTTY station that loves the mode as I do. Someone that, like me, desires more than a disingenuous signal-report and a 30-second QSO. Someone that loves the mode, sees the underlying beauty of, and someone that holds dearly to that same passion for discovery.

I know ... different strokes for different folks. I get it ..

On this forum, I read of the contesting world and the directions unfolding. I own a Flex 6300 and enjoy it. It sits next to my Collins S-line, my 75A4's, my Drake C-line, my R390A. The Flex outperforms every receiver I own. My grandsons think it is cool and love the panadapter. But dudes .. it isn't perfect. I listen to the Flex-Net on 20-meters, and the obsequious signal reports where everyone sounds so buttery smooth and perfect and always 5/9 (if they are Flex'ing). Heads up .. most of those signals, tuned to with a critical ear, sound marginally acceptable. I'm being polite ... and no, just because you bought a PR-40 does not mean you sound FB. Sorry.

The joke is, that most Flex 6000's have an echo on their signal due to RF intrusion. It may be subtle but it is insidious and noticeable to the critical ear. Additionally, perfect 100% AM modulation is not attainable through the ACC port and RF ingress is very problematic. This too, is well-documented and the topic of many ESSB and AM aficionado discussions. 

So, don't forget about the non-contestor ... please. The little guy that loves to pound out a CQ on CW, thrills in the sonics of bodacious AM, and gets chills every time they hear the crisp 170hz shift of a DX RTTY station.

I accept the changes .. I just don't care for them nor like the trend. I am excited by Maestro, but it has absolutely nothing to do with contesting.

.

73's

dan  W7NGA
San Juan Island, Wa. 
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W7NGA

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Posted 4 years ago

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Bill -VA3WTB

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(I accept the changes .. I just don't care for them nor like the trend) What changes are you talking about?, can you expound a little? It is interesting after Flex worked with some of the most prominent contester's to help design the Maestro, you say it has nothing to do with contesting.
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Jon - KF2E

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I agree with Bill. I read your post twice and still can't decipher your point(s).

Jon...kf2e
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Ernest - W4EG

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Ditto here!
What is this PhD talking about.
And will not waste my time to read it over again.

The only thing I see is N O N - S E N S E
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W7NGA

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Yeah .. I wrote it and it is as clear as mud. I wanted to convey a sense of frustration at the trend in Amateur Radio towards contesting, and watching product development biased towards this trend. Sorry for wasting your time Ernest ... best 73's
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Ernest - W4EG

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Dr. Dan,

I was an adult when I returned to college: And you remind me of the professor's lectures that were so boring and completely off  course, of what they were suppose be teaching. 

However, I was the student that challenged all their  non sensible theories. I had nothing to loose; with a great job that I loved and paid well.

At the end of the semester I received a lower grade than some of the students that were just occupying a seat in the classroom, seldom completing the assignments etc...  

I challenged those grades in front of the Dean of the department, with evidence and recordings of the lectures and grades of the; what should had been failing students.

I will just say after the discussion with the Dean, my grades were changed and several professors were no where on the campus. 

Finally, I have come to the realization in many cases that a higher level degree only means the ability to memorize not the ability to function in life or the ability to inspire others.
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W7NGA

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Geez .. Ernest, I almost detect an attitude at play here. Honestly, I had a glass of wine and reacted to the questions vis-a-vis Maestro on this forum and they all seemed to be contest related. I too will ultimately buy a Maestro and I am hoping it will serve my plebeian requirements as well as contesters.

That was the intent with a little fun and nostalgia added. I should also say that you do not know me, do not know the engineering and mathematics I do, and I see no reason for an ad hominem attack here, tangentially or in jest.

Life is too short for this Ernest ... see you on 15-meters perhaps.

73's

dan W7NGA
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Ernest - W4EG

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Take care Dan and yes life is rather short so I already had a drink and a toast to you!
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Let me clarify. Maestro was not just designed for contesting.  However, if the "knobs" work well for contesting/DXing, they will be ergonomically efficient for most other applications.  The reverse is not necessarily true.  

Take a look at the definition and placement of the knobs and buttons on Maestro to judge whether they work for you. There are 12 knobs, 15 buttons, and an 8 inch high definition touch screen.  The physical controls cover the most used functions with the next most used one touch away.  Maestro is designed for maximum radio workflow productivity and ergonomics.
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Jay -- N0FB, Elmer

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I am a very occasional contester using my 6300.  Contesting plays a very small part of my HF Amateur radio life.  Good ergonomics, extreme portability, and capability are the  trifecta in my wheelhouse.  The promise of Maestro addresses all of these.  

Maximum workflow and excellent ergonomics on a HF Rig is the proverbial flood which lifts all boats....Contester and Non-Contester alike.
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Jay -- N0FB, Elmer

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Dan said:  "The joke is, that most Flex 6000's have an echo on their signal due to RF intrusion. It may be subtle but it is insidious and noticeable to the critical ear. Additionally, perfect 100% AM modulation is not attainable through the ACC port and RF ingress is very problematic. This too, is well-documented and the topic of many ESSB and AM aficionado discussions."  

My response would be, open a ticket with Flex Tech support and supply as much documentation possible so that if this problem really exists it can be handled.  

If this problem exists and a workaround or best practice exists to either null the problem or drastically reduce it, provide those solutions here.
(Edited)
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Ned K1NJ

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     He is excited by Maestro, and other technology, but for him, it's not because of contesting.
He has enjoyed being on the path that has brought us this far.  (My interpretation)

Ned,  K1NJ
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Could be right Ned, If get a Maestro it won't be for contesting.
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W7NGA

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The changes are towards contesting .. I see a trend. I accept that the world is competitive and this might be where the winds blow .. but I think it is to the detriment of amateur radio. I read this forum and the thrust is clearly towards contesting. I'm just the guy in the thatched shack with the local gazing through the window, as I pound out another CQ. The buzz is around contesting .. not the guy just trying to have a QSO with a rig that works outstandingly .. bare bones. The Flex 6300 isn't prime-time .. so don't obsess on Maestro until the 6300 meets the requirements of us in the trenches, desiring stellar AM and ESSB performance. Those of us ... just wanting a radio that works to our expectations.

I cannot think of any other way to express this ...

I'm feeling as if a dinosaur ... hamasaurous?

dan  W7NGA
San Juan Island, Wa.
 
(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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I don't understand the desire for a 10 second contact where you lie about a signal report. If my life got that boring it might be time to be a SK.
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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Burt, please accept that contesting is a worthwhile activity for others who enjoy it. Comments about different preferences/ideas are welcome, but derision of them is not at all helpful.
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Burt Fisher

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I do accept that. When your enjoyment infringes on others, I have an issue. I would grant contesters 75% of a band segment, but they want it all.
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SteveM

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Burt,

I'm new to this hobby and so I lack the historical knowledge that you and others own. I've been reading some of the old QST articles: see here. From their earliest days, it seems amateurs have yet to change. We're still b!itching about the other guy (see articles regarding QRM from non-ARRL amateurs). Also, you bemoan a weekend or two per year of being forced off the bands, while the pioneers from the 'teens were shut down for years due to wartime restrictions.

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Burt Fisher

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A weekend or two a year really? There is a contest almost every weekend.
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SteveM

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Am I to understand you despise every contest?!? I thought you were only miffed for the 3-4 big ones (Field Day, ARRL DX, CQ WW, CQ WPX) that occur throughout the year. Those are the ones that cause the bands to be crowded. How can the smaller ones be a bother to you?
(Edited)
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Ernest - W4EG

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Say Doc,
You are wrong. l am on the list for Maestro for my Flex-6700 and I am NOT a contester.  However, I am a member of a DX club for the camaraderie and fellowship with my colleagues.   
(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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SteveM I despise every contest but when I hear someone not getting answers I help him by calling him. In the 160 meter contest I heard a SSB station calling CQ  Contest over W1AW code practice. Field Day is not a contest.
(Edited)
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SteveM

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Burt,

I once heard a rag-chewer talking SSB on 14.000MHz.

Field day is considered a contest by ARRL - it is listed on their contest calendar: see for yourself.

Since you do despise every contest, then the reasoning you have given for your stance is bogus. There is no reasonable objection to some of the small state contests (e.g. SD, AK, or RI); it's likely you've never even encountered them. Do you just need someone or something to despise?

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Burt Fisher

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From the ARRL site, "Field Day is not a contest; no certificates are awarded. Find a Field Day site near you or input your site to share with others." Now I wonder if you will something few hams do, apologize?

I despise child molesters so if I have an opinion on them, my opinion is bogus?

I need nothing to despise. I like you and almost all the hams here. Most are much smarter than I.

(Edited)
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SteveM

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From the ARRL site, "Field Day is not a contest; no certificates are awarded. Find a Field Day site near you or input your site to share with others." Now I wonder if you will something few hams do, apologize?

Ok, Burt. You are correct, I was wrong. You must have really swelled up when you found that little gem. Please tell me, though, since they list the event on their contest calendar, post FD results with the rest of the contest results, and define the objective of the event as "To work as many stations as possible on any and all amateur bands...", how is it that this event is, in your mind, a good event, whereas, any other event with similar objective is a bad event? Is it simply because there is no certificate awarded for FD? Are the signal reports somehow more honest for FD? Are the contacts longer than 10s for FD?

I despise child molesters so if I have an opinion on them, my opinion is bogus?

This is a dishonest tactic, Burt. Child molestation is immoral by all sane standards and all forms of it are against the law. It is not a matter of opinion. Opinions can be bogus, though.

I need nothing to despise. I like you and almost all the hams here.

I like you too, Burt. I just think your opinion of contesters is entirely too harsh and rigid. Without contesters, this hobby might wither and die.

(Edited)
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Jay -- N0FB, Elmer

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A rose by any other names smells as sweet.
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Burt Fisher

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SteveM. My God a ham that admits he was wrong! Amazing. However in the same vein you were also right because on your link under the ARRL contest calendar, there it was, Field Day. Thus you had good reason to say Field Day was a contest as the ARRL talked out of both sides of its mouth. 
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Dan, I know what you are saying about contesting, It is what drives many. When contesting is going it is almost impossible to talk to any other station out side the contest. Many times I have just shut things down for the weekend till it finishes.

I don't share your thoughts on prime time. I have a few very nice rigs in my shack and the Flex is my main radio, It out performs them all and really now that the noise mitigation  is coming around there is not much I'm wanting. The radio does everything I want. And have had almost no problems to mention. but i don't push things to the edge like others do here, just simple operation every day.

If the Flex Is not EQed for your voice it can sound very much like anything else, how ever I have heard many that are setup well and they are some of the finest sounding rigs on the air, Dave W2OX is one for example. 
(Edited)
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Just like grand prix racing..  technology developed in the Maximum Performance realm trickles down and benefits folks driving down the highway or a country road.  likewise, improved radio performance designed tested and optimized for contesting adds value to the technology of the casual ham operator.  Since SDR represents the future of radio, contesters are starting to add SDR to their toolkit, and along with that bring their selves, ergonomic and operating expertise, filter and station automation skills, and other ideas to the community.   We all have and will continue to benefit from this group.

As for the argument of taking up the bands for contesting...  There are 7 days a week, and 10 HF ham bands.  Contests primarily occur on weekends, 2 of 7 days, on 6 of the 10 ham bands and mostly on 5.  In fact 4 of those 10 overall bands 12,17,30 and 60 meters are implicitly reserved for non contesters.

This is also diluted by the fact that contests are mostly mode specific, occurring in either the CW/RTTY or Phone segment of the bands in question.

Bottom line.. is unless you think you "own" a qrg(and you know you dont) there is always someplace else to go if you want to have a heartfelt 1 hour qso with a buddy.  

the argument that contesters take up all the ham bands even during a contest weekend is simply false.  If you have a pact to meet someone for a ragchew somewhere, and it happens to be on one of the contest weekends, the wise choice would be to schedule it on a warc band, or on a mode other than the contest.  end of problem.  you just down get to keep "your" qrg.  

thats the way it is..  Its not unfair..  Its not going to change.  get over it and enjoy the improved technology the competitive ham radio group brings..  and use your skills and expertise as an operator to find someplace to use it.

~C.
N6WM  
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Burt Fisher

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You are right it is not going to change. The WARC bands are like the beaches in my town, rocky and narrow. I welcome all the contests sent there, but it wont happen. If you don't know CW though or have an antenna for the WARC bands you are off the air.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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You only need cw on 30 meters and a 17m or 12m dipole is small cheap and easy to build. I have worked DXCC on 12, 17 and 30 meters repeatedly year after year, and there has always been space to call cq or have a ragchew on those "narrow rocky" beaches.  If you dont know cw, then your not concerned about the cw contests, they don't intrude on you.  that narrows down the contest weekends as well to just SSB contests.  Bottom line is the standard ham bands are non contest areas a majority of the time, and there is another option if one is going on.  Its totally reasonable, and even contesters get frustrated with the SSB congestion..  all the better reason to continue to improve technology, get clean signal rigs on the air..and contesters are instrumental in developing those improvements for all rigs.  for the benefit of us all.


  
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Chris, I know any negative comments about contesting ruffles feathers on here. I should not be forced to vacate a band because of contest. 40M is a very good band for groups of people to chat. So many will continue using it. Many times the conditions on 12,17, 30M are not good for us.

Every state has a contest and there is usually one every weekend, that makes it hard for those that get on there radio mostly weekends.

But I think it must work both ways, if a contester jumps on our freq I suppose they won't hear who they are trying to contact either with us talking.

And I see you slam the door closed as though there is nothing to discus, you said get over it and that's just the way is. I'm sorry but their are others using the bands as well. If this was a shut case you would not have felt the need to comment.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Sure Bill, I totally understand.   And maybe my "get over it" statement was a little terse so let me change my tune a bit.

I (yes contester me) have belonged to a west region ragchew group for years.  We move it based on time of year,  even time of evening,  propagation and contest conditions.   In the winter we go low..  80 and 160 meters, and other times use 40 meters and even 20 meter scatter when conditions allow.    

We have never even needed to move it to the WARC bands..  but sometimes we skip it.. VERY RARELY but sometimes.. due to contest conditions.  Not that big of a deal.  The group is strong and has lots of technically competent friendly and chatty hams.  The group is solid and strong and has no problem with the occasional qsy.. Isnt that how its supposed to work?  
 
I personally think we can all handle the occasional qsy.. and its not going to make any particular group implode if they have to occasionally qsy.  The contest qrm simply doesn't occur on a large scale that often.   Its scheduled and predictable and the benefits brough to the community are great.  
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Chris, I do take part in field day, it's fun.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Thats great Bill.. not sure of your point.. I enjoy field day as well. but I mostly enjoy the barbeque and beer  for that :-).
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W7NGA

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Field Day has a useful purpose in the spirit of Amateur Radio and community service.
The others ... not so much.
I would like a demarcation to exist ... an egalitarian solution if you will.

dan  W7NGA
(Edited)
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SteveM

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I listen to some of the rag-chew sessions and wonder how that provides "a useful purpose in the spirit of Amateur Radio and community service". Guys sitting around drinking beer and talking about the fungus between their toes.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Steve, your kidding right? you have never been in a good discussion?
I have many time times, and many I have talked to make our hobby what it is, a matter of fact made our radios what they are. You need to get out more, Hi Hi
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SteveM

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I said "some of the rag-chew sessions", not all. The comment was directed toward Dan who wants to segregate so-called "useful contests" from others. I just meant that rag-chewing should be treated likewise.


I do "get out" once in awhile. I've been on 80M late and have heard what goes on there. Have you?

(Edited)
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SteveM

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Bill,

You said: "Every state has a contest and there is usually one every weekend, that makes it hard for those that get on there radio mostly weekends."

Last year, there were only 24 out of 52 weekends used for state QSO parties. On one of the weekends South Dakota had its contest and the results are:

  • In State Fixed High Power:
    1) KF0XO - 41,667
    2) K0LEW - 20,460
    3) W0PIR - 3,220
  • In State Fixed Low Power:
    1) KD6CP/0 - 14,892
    2) KM0F - 247
    3) WB0TML - 109
    4) KC0MVF - 6
  • In State Rover High Power:
    No Entries
  • In State Rover Low Power:
    1) K7RE - 40,200
    2) W0SEB - 12,616
  • Out of State - Not even worth mentioning
Hmm. Six points total took 4th place for 150W rigs. This is what makes it hard for you to get some bandwidth?


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Bill -VA3WTB

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No it can be done, if you keep moving around, it is still hard with so many operators splatering well outside the band pass or just talking over the conversation your having. It sure seemed like a lot more contest then that, my mistake. anyhow Steve, those are my thoughts and I'm sure you want to pick at what ever I say you may disagree with, but I have no ambition to debate this any further.
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DrTeeth

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The trouble is with contesters (those who live and breath contests) and not contests themselves. These days with all the tech at our disposal, contesting groups have become 'willy waving' contests as we say in the UK. Each person showing off how big and better their station is.

I enjoy every QSO, the chattyer the better, even if it is with a ham down the road. The magic of speaking to somebody via radio still amazes me. As for my teenage children and their 'why not Skype?' attitude, sheesh.
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SteveM

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Bill,

I do not want to pick at your words nor debate. For some strange reason it struck me, on this single isolated thread, to call people out for their BS. Therefore, I'm taking issue with those who make sweeping generalizations that are simply untrue and an excuse for disparaging their brethren.

You ought to know that most of us here are Flex users. We all see the same bands and we all see them in their entirety, give or take a few dB of propagation and/or antenna gain. From my limited experience, I rarely see congested bands except for the few occasions when one of the big events is scheduled. On the contrary, on most nights the bands are pretty bleak - so bleak, in fact, one might wonder whether amateurs really need all of the bandwidth that was given to them.

So there sits my son, in the basement, every night calling out CQ, making contacts, exchanging cards, never once complaining about contesters or congestion. What's wrong with him, Bill? Is he stupid?

(Edited)
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W7NGA

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Steve, it isn't the same experience for everyone or an equal playing field. My thing is 15-meter AM on 21.420, 21.430, 21.440. By convention, it is a very narrow and limited spectrum to enjoy my hobby as I desire. The contests annihilate that window. It seems to me, that an allocated slice of the band that disallows (or greatly discourages) contesting, would let everyone enjoy the hobby on weekends. I don't believe QSY'ing is an issue for anyone. However, there should be a slice of the band to go to as haven from the insanity. That just doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
73's .. dan
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SteveM

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It is unreasonable if that section of the band goes largely unused. As I said above, the bands mostly go unused the way it is. Your own words are "My thing is 15-meter AM on 21.420, 21.430, 21.440". Since it is "your thing" to occupy those frequencies then they must be open a large percentage of the time when you want them. I wonder if you might just be greedy and unwilling to share the bandwidth.

Instead of sitting here on a message board complaining about it, why don't one of you document your issue and present it to the AARL. You can simply take screen shots with a timestamp of your pet band (you know, the one you think you own) on a daily basis. If you can show that say 67%, or 50%, or even 25% of the time the band is "annihilated", you might gain some support.

(Edited)
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W7NGA

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I have never said it is 'my band'. It is 'our band' so let us share equally.
The rest of your reply makes little sense to me.
Let's talk Flex Radios ...
(Edited)
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SteveM

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Sorry if I was unclear.

What I meant to say was that I don't believe there is a huge problem with contests disrupting other HAM activity. I simply do not see it. It is my contention that those who complain about it, greatly exaggerate the inconvenience that contests cause them. I asked for substance to your argument and suggested taking screenshots of the SSDR panadapter on a daily basis that show "annihilation" of the band. The number of screenshots documented over a year, divided by 365, provides a metric that can either support or oppose your contention.


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W7NGA

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The crux of the issue is operation during a contest. Yes, the AM window on 15-meters is generally dead on weekdays .. from lack of interest or poor band conditions. On weekends, when most hams operate methinks, when a SSB contest exists the window is annihilated without any chance of an AM QSO. I suspect the same issue exists for those on SSB and SSTV wanting to casually operate. 

It's a simple scenario. I fly for an airline. I am gone except on weekends. I settle into the shack on Saturday and turn on the Flex .. and it is one of many contest weekends. Hopeless. I turn the Flex off and go fly aerobatics. I return late in the day and the contest is over. The band is now dead. Propagation has evaporated. 
 
True, there are alternative bands where I could join other escapees. Not unreasonable, but philosophically jejune. A no-contesting allocation of a reasonable slice of the pie would be an equitable solution. I'd be pleased and most of my argument would vanish. I wouldn't have to take up golf .. and I would be grateful.

I am off to southeast Asia for seven weeks .. contest away.
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SteveM

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Good grief. You're saying the bands ought to be tailored according to exactly what you prefer? Can't you foresee that even if a chunk of spectrum was carved out just as you wish, you would still be out in the dark. It's about the number of operators occupying the bands, not what they are doing or the mode of operation. If you were to have your way with your pie-in-the-sky little chunk of spectrum heaven, where do you think all of the SSTV, the SSB rag-chewers, the LIDs from 80m-way, the RTTY'ers, the CW'ers, and the AM'ers will converge?

It seems more reasonable to me the way it is now. The thousands and thousands of operators all contend with equal opportunity, and equal patience, and equal tolerance of non-ideal conditions, for the same bandwidth. Why is it an AM rag-chewer should have an easier go of it, than an SSB contester?

BTW, I am not a contester.

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W7NGA

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A reasonable compromise -
If it is a SSB contest the SSB, SSTV, and AM'ers would still have a small slice to operate in during the contest hours. If CW and RTTY, there would be a slice. 
The big question is ... why use the entire spectrum for the contest? 
I don't know how long you've been a ham Steve, but there is no chance of a casual QSO on 15-meters during a contest. Not without serious retribution!

Co-existence is a lovely idea ... lovely, but unworkable.
I am simply asking for a slice. The contesters didn't ask at all. They just took it. And took it all. 
cheers ...
(Edited)
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SteveM

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The big question is simple to answer. It is because even the entire spectrum is not enough to support all of the operators. You being only one out of many thousands of operators.

Does a casual QSO on 15m include setting a big-fat AM signal on top of some other smaller signal? If so, then I can understand why there would be retaliation, even if I would not condone it. However, retaliation would also happen in non-contest scenarios.

Are you, or have you ever been married? If not, then you do not know the meaning of co-existence. Contrary to what you claim, co-existence is possible as it has been accomplished millions of times. When it fails, perhaps, one or the other has decided to refuse the notion.


(Edited)
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W7NGA

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I hope being married for 34 years qualifies and might convince others I am the 'master of compromise'! I feel our conversations here on this forum are somewhat representative of what the ham community might be feeling at large. It's polarizing and ultimately divisive. I have always been respectful during my ham tenure and as I have said, I understand that we all come to the hobby with different motivations. I am asking that we not forget this .. and craft workable solutions for the accommodation of all.

How dare you call my AM signal 'fat' :)
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SteveM

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I agree. I am exhausted. 73's Dan.

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DrTeeth

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I would say that many contesters (not the majority by any means, but enough to matter) are selfish who run more than their legal power limit and transmit such poor quality signals. Look at the behaviour over a DX pileup.

The sort of people that one would wish to play by some rules are the type who do not care about their fellow man. Schmuck on the air and on the road too - you know the type.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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As an Avid Contester and DXer..  who owns equipment that could easily break the rules .... It is absolutely NO FUN to break the rules to win at all costs as that is not a challenge... Personally I cannot understand how anyone could get pleasure by cheating...

The challenge is to win contests and break through DX pileups within the rules...

Now that is REAL FUN!!
(Edited)
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DrTeeth

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I agree with you 110% Howard.

Best wishes.
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Burt Fisher

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@SteveM
Calling some stupid because their viewpoint is different, really?

AM signals fat? Another insult to those who appreciate quality over quanity.

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SteveM

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Burt, I didn't call anyone stupid and I didn't insult anyone by saying AM signals are fat.

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Burt Fisher

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" What's wrong with him, Bill? Is he stupid?" Did I misinterpret this?
"Does a casual QSO on 15m include setting a big-fat AM" Didn't you say that?

I invite a correction.

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SteveM

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Burt!!!!

Please read the context of my post. I used the word "stupid", but I did not call anyone stupid. I asked Bill if my son is stupid for having a good time making QSOs yet never complaining about contesters.

I used the word "fat", but I did not describe any person as fat. That an AM signal is "fatter" than a CW signal is a generally accepted truism.

I now refuse to post in this thread anymore.

(Edited)
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Burt - another 10 points towards your 2015 Curmudgeon of the Year Award.. that makes 30 points in 2 days...You are slowly catching up to N6KI who still leads you by at least 1,000 points as he gets an automatic 100 points for annoying me every time he yells at me for being too slow to catch a Q in a contest...
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Burt Fisher

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Steve I never said you called a person fat. You insulted AMers by deriding their mode.

Howard you can't copy the letter Q?

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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Funny Retort Burt....!!!!!
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km9r.mike

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I think the FRS team is composed of type A personalities and am confident that they will not rest until they have a product that is mature in all areas of development and are smart enough to implement advances in one subset to improve areas in another subset. A win win vice the hypothesized win lose.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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We are all A++ type folks ;-)
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km9r.mike

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Yes understand fully and sorry for the unintended slight.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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No slight  Some days we just want to be an "A" and relax a bit.