Stereo Diversity Reception volume control tracking?

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I don't know if I am missing something but when listening in Stereo Diversity mode on my 6600M (RX1 ANT1 in left channel, RX2 ANT2 in right channel) and want to adjust
the AF/volume level it only controls RX1?

It there a way to lock the RX 1&2 volume controls together so I can adjust both slices at the same time?

Would also be nice if I could lock together the AGC-T controls for both slices as well.

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KC2QMA_John

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Posted 4 months ago

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KC2QMA_John

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Well after further investigation it looks like this is not possible at this time. I would like to submit this for a future SSDR update.

While I have it my mind I will describe what I think the best way to implement this idea or at least what I think might work.


I think there could be 3 Stereo Diversity Tracking Modes when you click the DIV button:

1:(IND) Independent Mode. This is the way it currently works now. When you click DIV the Volume & AGC-T controls for both slices are adjusted separately and manually.

2:(REL) Relative Mode. When you select this mode it would lock both volume & AGC-T controls in their current positions and when you adjust them they will both move “relative” to their current positions.

3:(ABS) Absolute Mode. In this mode what ever slice A settings are (volume, AGC-T) they are mirrored or duplicated in slice B.

I’m not sure how FRS would do this but maybe just clicking the “DIV” button multiple times could toggle between each mode and it should also have persistence so it remembers the last mode you selected so the next time you click the DIV button it goes right back to the last mode you selected (IND, REL, ABS).

Now if we could not have all these modes and had to pick just one I think #2 “Relative Mode” would be the best option for most because it allows the user to set their volume & AGC-T to compensate for the differences in gain between the two different antennas but still be able to control them together.

One of the reasons I bought a 6600M was to take advantage of the 2-SCU’s and have Stereo Diversity Reception capabilities. When chasing DX using DIV (diversity) I find I have to constantly go back and fourth making adjustments witch really slows things down and is pain in the butt, so having this ability to lock the controls together would really improve and speed up workflow.

Another thing I don't hear many Flex users talk about is how amazing the 6000 series radios are for SWL (short wave listening). I use my Flex all the time to listen to SW radio broadcasts from all over the world and it sure would be nice to have this feature added for even more SWL Fun! ;)

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

73’

KC2QMA

(Edited)
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K3SF

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hi

note 1:
Diversity reception is about combining signals not separating signals...

First is to consider how the signal is being received at the antenna system.  Hence based on antenna system you can have spatial diversity where the two antenna are spaced a wave length apart and of the same polarization. The second is polarization diversity, where two antenna are of different polarization ( one vertical and one horizontal).

Some people like to operate diversity by having volume and agct set same on each SCU/ant combo but with one scu sent to left ear and other sent to right ear....
This is not combining but is separating...bad idea for optimal diversity reception and reduced human cognitive loading.

I personally dont agree with this as this causes the signal to vary from ear to ear. This technique causes too much cognitive processing to "follow" the sound are it travels spatially within your head from ear to ear. ) The cocktail party effect of psycho-acoustics is in effect in this mode and is the high cognitive load...

Applying combining technique.
A better method is to have both scu's outpout (volume) set to center rather than full left and full right as in above setup. and to he same level.  Since they will be inphase any variation in volume between signal received from one scu/ant will be compensate by the other scu/ant..and no noticeable change in volume will occur.....no cognitive processing required and you get to hear the best signal.

Based on this description of diversity reception, i see no reason to change how flex has setup the controls.

my two cents based on human factors and engineering.

Paul K3SF







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KC2QMA_John

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"Some people like to operate diversity by having volume and agct set same on each SCU/ant combo but with one scu sent to left ear and other sent to right ear....
This is not combining but is separating"

That's why it's called "<<STEREO DIVERSITY>>" it's supposed to be separate;)

There are many aspects and ways to take advantage and use Diversity Reception and Stereo Diversity is just one of those ways.
If you read through the original post you will see that one of the very modes that I mention (#1 on the list) is actually the way the DIV button works as of right now, that way folks like yourself can continue to use DIV just as you always have.

"I personally dont agree with this as this causes the signal to vary from ear to ear. This technique causes too much cognitive processing to "follow" the sound are it travels spatially within your head from ear to ear. ) The cocktail party effect of psycho-acoustics is in effect in this mode and is the high cognitive load..."

Fortunately for me I have no trouble and can handle "the high cognitive load” ;) 

I was just suggesting the additional control over the slice Vol and agc-t levels to add more flexibility for diversity users.

(Edited)
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Don N

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John, There is also a master volume control next to the PC Audio button, top right.  It works even if you aren't using PC Audio, also see the headphone slider there.  I didn't see this control for a while, since I was so used to using the one for a slice, or my speaker's vol control.  But at any rate, it controls both slices when in DIV mode.  I believe the AGC controls are only independent though.

Hope this helps
73, Don
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K3SF

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hi john

just trying to expand your horizons of how people perceive sound and how it could improve ham radio operations

as a tidbit of info..

Besides the cognitive load there is also focus switching which includes decision making and cause context switching to occur. In the case of stereo diversity is the decision to prioritize which ear to focus attention. A lot of brain power just to keep tracking the signal which could be used to decode (voice or cw).

A lot of this happens subconsciously. However,  when context switching happens very frequently like in a signal with a high QSB rate you reaction times slow down.

FYI....
i would recommend to do some reading and research on the web for Binaural Audio...which is the ability to create 3D sound fields from just two sources (like a headset)

the 'binaural' used by flex and even by tentec at one time used the freq ( cw mode only)to create pseudo 3D sound field "spatially" layed out but the sound field is only perceived within your head...in fact across a region in your head from the left ear to the right ear

Real binaural audio can create out of head perceptions of sound.
just like in a movie theater or even better ...real life ;-)

i would be glad to discuss this topic with you any time...
just as a note on my background with the topic

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Creating-a-Multi-Dimensional-Communication-Space-to-Sauk-Sator...


https://patents.google.com/patent/EP2434782A2




Paul K3SF






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KC2QMA_John

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Hello Paul I appreciate your input, yes I am aware of the many techniques of diversity reception. The funny thing is what you describe as a negative I actually like. I want to hear signals fading in and out of phase from left to right, for example when I take my two directional antennas east and west and split them left and right I can instantly hear what direction stations are transmitting from. ( Left West - Right East).

Traditional methods like Diversity Polling, Polarization Diversity and other techniques are great as well. However this was not meant to be a debate over the theory of diversity reception or even about what binaural is, I was just asking for additional control over Volume & AGC-T levels for diversity reception in SmartSDR and like I said I don’t want flex to remove anything that's already there I want them to add a feature.


Very interesting and impressive work you have done with multi-dimensional communication, I am a recording engineer and work in music production and multi-media and we are just starting to use the Ambisonics format for virtual reality (VR) or augmented reality (AR) productions where the listener wears a VR headset and when he/she moves their head the head phones track the movement and adjusts the stereo sound sphere adoringly.

You can read about Ambisonics here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambisonics


In audio production we sometime use phasing techniques to move the sound image around. In fact there was a time when stereo synthesizers were popular like Bob Carvers “Sonic Holography” and even Hughes Corporation invented its own audio imaging process for binaural audio.


73'
John
KC2QMA
(Edited)
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K3SF

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roger that John

always nice to chat about the underlying aspects of human perception
and
even how that applies to our hobbies
and
sorry for the distraction from your main topic

hope to cu on the air

Paul K3SF
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KC2QMA_John

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No worries Paul, It’s nice to meet someone here on the Flex Forum that is so deep into Dimensional sound  and Psychoacoustics. It just goes to show how many smart people like yourself use FlexRadio! 

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KC2QMA_John

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Does anyone at FLEX Radio have any thoughts on this suggestion?

I am very happy with my 6600M and Maestro and I can obviously live with the way the slice controls work in Diversity now but it would be nice to have the extra slice control in diversity if possible.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! 2019

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Doug - W5WTX

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What is the difference between DIV and DIV A?  I can't find any reference in the manual.
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KC2QMA_John

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The "A" is the primary slice (LEFT) and "A DIV" (RIGHT) is the second slice that is added so you have Diversity. I do know when you press it it toggles control over Volume and AGCT between slice A & A DIV Or Left and Right.

And this is exactly what I am talking about above and why it would be great if you could lock the "A" and "A DIV" controls together.
(Edited)
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Volker Geith

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Regarding your initial post I ́d like to have the same. Sometimes it is irritating not to be able to do so.

73, Volker
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KC2QMA_John

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NOTE: The volume controls only do lock together on the M models and the Maestro they Do Not in SSDR 2.4.9 for Windows PC.
(Edited)
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Don N

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John, All I use is SSDR 2.4.9 here, so I'm not sure how it works on an 'M' model or Maestro, but my slider at the top right brings both slices up/down in volume together.  My 2 slices are each shifted to the far left or right as you'd expect, and their individual vol. is controllable, as you stated.  The slider I speak of is up by the windows minimize button, and works for either PC or Non PC audio, with another which also controls the headphone vol on the 6600 rear.  

Is this what you are wanting?  I may be missing something, it wouldn't be the first time, hi.

Don
wd4egf
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KC2QMA_John

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HI Don, I am aware of the master volume control at the top of SSDR and use it from time to time. however no that's not exactly what I meant. Using an electronic component reference,  It's like a "Gang Potentiometer" where you control 2 volumes or AGCT with one control. This is also important for those who use a FlexControl like me.
(Edited)