SmartSDR - Annual Costs - ????

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  • Updated 5 months ago
Ok. This is getting ridiculous.  

$200 a year to keep my radio current?

Of course it is "optional" until it is not optional. 

I have been in IT for 30 years. I have seen this model before, and it did not play out  well for the companies that did it. In the end, they either went under, went to a subscription model, or gave out the software for free.

Why don't you switch to a service model where you charge something like $5 a month or $60 a year. This service can include the remote services, support,  updates, etc.

You will find that most of the owners will go for this model over paying out $200 every year or so for "optional" updates.

The problem with optional updates is that it will introduce security issues to the v2 models since they are internet facing and lets be honest, you are not microsoft and keep legacy systems patches going for years after a release.

The other issue is that the resale value of the radio drops by $200 the minute a new version comes out.  Right now for new flex people, an icom 7300 ( yes, I know it is not a fair comparison but it is a choice people make) NEW costs around $1100.  A flex 6300 costs around $1200 used. Once 3.0 is out, the flex is now worth $1000 at best unless it has ver 3.0 installed.

A newbie to SDR will look at the self contained Icom for $1000 - $1100 NEW and they simply drop it in, or do they want to get a flex and have the learning curve?   This is a conversation that is taking place on the nets right now and most people lean toward the IC7300 since it is good enough and they do not have to pay for updates.

I love my flexradio, but you need to re-evaluate your software model, it will have long term impact on your products.  
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David H Hickman

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Posted 9 months ago

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K6OZY, Elmer

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I've also been in IT for 20+ years, and I think this model is fully functional.   Updates that add features are optional.  Updates that provide security updates are free and release for all versions.   Most companies announce a software EOL (Microsoft, Cisco, etc) and charge for extended security-only updates to their older software.   Flex is doing this for free.

Their company isn't large enough to house a support team to do the subscription method you suggest.  This means income is either this or forced obsolescence of our radios, which NONE of us want.  A sub model could be their ultimate target, but as a company that is growing, they have a bit to go before they have the presence to rely on subs as their primary money maker.

I can understand some people's frustration with someone else's business model, but it seems to be working for them.   Some people also may be upset thinking that they are focusing on only contest features only, but if this lets Flex get the money to keep the company running as a whole, then I'm all for it.  They will revisit the smaller options for those who don't have massive pocketbooks.  I want Flex to be around for decades to come.  The upper management and board have a solid business head and know what they are doing.   I've been a Flex-nut for 15+ years now and want them to be around for the next 20+!

-Chris
(Edited)
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Lawrence Gray

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I bought a 7300 to try out.  I found it to be a very good radio--really a bargain at the price.  I did not experience any front end overloading, but I don't have antennas anywhere near commercial or other loud signal sources.   It may not be a super contest radio, but it works very and there are lots of them on the air.  

I cannot really understand the continual need to run down the performance of competitive radios?  Flex radios are great, but they also have areas that need improvement.  A 7300 is not a Flex, but it is a great radio for the price.

I have no issue paying for major Flex firmware/software upgrades.  

Larry, W1IZZ
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Ken Hansen

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Larry, I agree - the critiques seem to be based on emotion, justified by well-known short-comings of the IC-7300.

The IC-7300 was released just over three years ago, and tens of thousands of them have been sold just in the US alone. If it were truly a 'klunker' the swap boards would be flooded with them, and they'd be selling at 'fire-sale' prices. Instead, when they come up for sale they trade hands at solid prices, and rarely linger on the boards for more than a day before being sold.

When put on the table at a Hamfest the first question I hear asked is 'why are you selling it', asked with a hint of surprise.

For the past two years the Hamfest I run has awarded an IC-7300 as our top prize - it drives a lot of additional door prize tickets.

Are there better radios available? Of course, I own several that are better than the IC-7300, but for operating "Picnic Table Portable" it can't be beat, based on cost, size, performance and portability.
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Mark - WS7M

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I had a 7300 for a short time and it was a fine radio.  I can't speak to the RF overload Howard experienced but I will say that we used a 6600, 7300, 6500 and Yaesu FT892 in FD and the 7300 did just fine.  Granted no strong RF.

We will be running various radios up at our WWV 100 celebration literally less than 1/2 mile from the HF antennas of WWV.  I've taken my 6300 out there and it worked fine as long as you stayed a ways away from the big sigs.
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Dave - W6OVP

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The IC-7300 is a lot of radio for the money, and many thousands seem to agree. I keep one here as a spare and always enjoy using it.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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I am 2900’ from 8 TV towers and 23 FM radio towers + US Navy secret stuff. I have a big SteppIR MonstIR. It’s RF hell much of the time need a superb receiver.

On The Other Hand. I own Asia in Contests.
(Edited)
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Lance Rasmussen

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Having also been in IT for as long, as well as running a small vertical market software, I've seen these different models and it's still common to charge for major upgrades. Prices, of course, vary. FLEX is not a product that is going to see several million customers to support a dirt cheap option. Plus, the radios are not conducive to a Adobe cloud type model where you pay and when you dont, you shut down.
It really boils down to this. If you are too cheap to upgrade or do not see the benefits of the major upgrade- dont. Easy peasy. For those that see the benefit - upgrade.
All my other radios... when they release a new version with features I want, i have to sell the radio and buy a whole new one. For Flex - the software is the magic.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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1, There are no annual cost.

2, The cost of software development it the most expensive part of Flex Radio operation. If Icom was paying this much for their software updates, it would not be free either.

3, This business model has to date been very productive and has been very successful.

4, Any needed maintenance updates for none feature releases will continue to be free as long as the software is still supported.
(Edited)
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paul

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I have a 5000A I bought 15 years ago using v2.7.2. It helped me get DXCC #141 on 2m. Works fine and does everything I expect it to do. I also have a 6500 running 1.11.12 a 6600 and two 6300 using 2.49 only because I use them remotely. I see no reason to use another version unless something strikes me and then I may only change version on one of them. Nice thing is I do not have to "upgrade" it is my choice. Try not paying a HULU subscription and see what happens.  paul, wa3qpx
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Lawrence Gray

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I do not have an issue with the fee for major updates.  My issue, and I hear it quite a bit, is that some basic features, such as ANF and NR are still poor compared to several competitive radios.  I am really happy to pay for an update that addresses these shortcomings.  I have no interest in an update that allows multi-user use of the radio.  None of the several  people I know around here, or on the air, who own Flex's have any interest in the multi-user feature.  All are interested in improvements in recovered audio (ANF, NR...)

I just received an ANAN 7000DLE MKII.  All updates are free, as they are open source.  There is a learning curve and you need to know how to deal with software, so the radio is not for everyone.  However, the ANF, noise reduction, diversity reception, and pure signal features are really good.   I hear lots of chatter on the air about people purchasing these radios.

I have owned 3 Flex's and they are great radios.  My 6500 is generally great.  However, I do not think Flex is responsive to the needs of  the general customer base.  This is particularly true since the introduction of the "knob based" new models.  An expectation of superior ANF and DSP-based NR is not unreasonable.

In any case, $200 for a major update is a bargain. 

Larry, W1IZZ


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Ken Hansen

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Since we are discussing business models and obsolescence, remember also that Apple, along with charging real money for OS upgrades until fairly recently, also has no qualms 'End of Life-ing' hardware they choose not to support anymore. They simply drop support for devices, leaving owners stranded on aging OSes with no further support.
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Craig Williams

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Yep.
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Kevin

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Way way off topic but Larry, every time I see your picture beside your posts I want to tell you "You're gonna need a bigger boat."

For those not following... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I91DJZKRxs

I'm sure there's no connection to FRS here at all.

Kev

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Lawrence Gray

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LOL.  Even funnier because I live right across Vineyard Sound where much of the filming was done, I did charter boat work for years, and have a master's license.  The photo was taken while standing on the bowsprit of the 65 foot sailboat in Turkey.
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Kevin

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Nice! And looking at your qrz.com page we seem we have some things in common. I was an ET1 stationed on the sub tender USS Hunley in Holy Loch, Scotland. Also, spent 4 years up in Sinop, Turkey. Also, you worked in the food/beverage industry and I eat and drink. Wow! ;) Not to mention we both enjoy Flex.

Fair winds and following seas.

73,
Kev K4VD
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Mark WS7M

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I been in IT for 40 years.  I've seen all the models and quite frankly the companies that went under where the ones that gave it away for free.

I think Bill said it best above.   There is no annual cost.  If you are happy with the radio and the features then you are good to good with the radio until you are done with it.

If you want new features, prepare to pay.  Try getting a feature update to an Icom 7300.  The 7610 is currently going through bug fix and minor feature releases.  Once those are done I suspect that radio will be in the same position.  The feature set will be locked.
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KF4HR

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It would be nice, but to the best of my knowledge FRS has never put out a major (i.e., $199) software version every year.  I have owned my Flex-6700 since 2015 and have only paid for one software upgrade (V2.x) 

While there are several free minor changes that occur within each major software update, the $199 updates tend to be centered around (mostly) one major feature.  For V2.x is was the Remote Control feature and for V3.x it's the Multi-Client feature.  It's a fairly safe bet that the newest software features may, or may not be wanted or needed by some, so why force everyone to pay for them? 

The same goes for resale value.  Some buyers may want the latest software features, while others may not, so resale prices will vary based on wants and needs.  And of course the used buyer always has the option to wait for the next sequential major software update and catch up with all the previous versions with one $199 purchase.

Personally I like the way FRS has structured their software update process.  It's Flexible! (pun intended)

 
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Steve Sampson

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Three thoughts:
1. This was the Flex plan since inception, and everyone that bought a Flex knew it.  
2.  Software is the heart of the radio, expensive to build, and the Flex ham market is small.  Why would you think it should be free/cheaper.
3.  If you want a radio without the upgrade options/cost, there are many choices you can pick from.  

Bitching now about a free choice you made isn't appropriate
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Rick - N4RZ

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Statement 1 above is not quite correct.  When Flex originally announced the 6000 series radios they were going to have an annual fee of $200 per radio for software updates.  Again, you could choose to update or not and wait for features you wanted and jump back in at that time by paying a single annual update fee.  Those of us who put money down upfront were promised an additional year of software updates for free.   Flex later changed this to the current model which only charges us for new major versions of the software.   As a result, those of us who were early adopters of the 6000 radios did not have to pay for version 2.  I will now have had a Flex 6000 series radio for about 5 and a half years without ever having to pay for a software upgrade.   This method worked out much better for me than what was originally promised by Flex!  I intend to wait until version 3 is released and see if the features are something I want and if so will gladly pay the $199 upgrade fee for the improvements.
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Ken - NM9P

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Rick, you must have been one of the initial "Signature Series" buyers.  I was in the second wave of pre-lease buyers, just after the "signature & Jacket" deal.  It was still "pre-release," but I did not get the free update to V.2.

But I purchased an additional "year's subscription" when I bought my 6500 and that covered V.2.X when it was released.  It was still a good deal.  After over 5 years of ownership I have paid for V.2 & V.3 (Alpha) and will certainly pay for V.4 whenever they start working on that after V.3.X runs its course. (I have NO information on plans for that project, but we all know that there will likely be V. 4, 5, 6, etc. to come.)

I suppose the percentage of software cost to equipment cost varies with the level of rig originally purchased, which may be the barb catching on some people's hide.

$200 for a $2,000 rig (6300 or 6400) is a 10% upgrade cost.
$200 for a $4,000 rig (6500 or 6600) is a 5% upgrade cost.
$200 for a $6,000 rig (6700)   is 3.3% upgrade cost.

In any case, it is much less than a simple repair in almost any radio repair shop.
A couple of years ago I spent $250 to repair the Electrostatic protection diodes after a nearby lightning strike and I was glad to pay it, because those little guys protected my $4,500 rig from greater damage!

Ken - NM9P
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John KB4DU

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Opinions are like bellybuttons, everybody has one. Since we're sharing opinions here, I'll throw in mine.  $200 is sort of in the category of pizza money. I've spent more than that taking the family to a baseball game considering parking, tickets, nachos, hot dawgs, beer, etc. I'm glad to pay the upgrade fee if it keeps an American company in business as opposed to imports.

Is the radio perfect? No, but my 6400 is the best $2000 dollar radio in existence for my purposes.
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Tim - G7GFW / F4VQP

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Haven't we been here before when SSDR V2 was released?

Not one comment I have read from those who object to Flex's business model have added anything new to the debate.

Many have said it, including me, if you had read what FRS have said, it was obvious that a 'major' software release, denoted by the change from 1 to 2 or 2 to 3, that this would be a paid upgrade.

Like most Flex users, I have no problem with this model. If I choose not to buy the latest version my radio won't stop work exactly as it does with whatever version of the software I have.

OK, so you don't think that this feature or that feature works or isn't implemented to suit your taste, you are entitled to your opinion and I will defend your right to express it but, by the same token, you cannot deprive me of the right to disagree.

What I find difficult to accept is the vitriolic comments that some people make. We are all supposed to be reasonably educated people, surely it's not difficult to express your opinions in a reasonably educated way?

For me, it was a very big decision to buy a Flex in the first place but having done so, as someone who has been in IT for over 40 years and owned some of the most highly rated radios in nearly 60 years of Hamming, I can honestly say that, as far as I am concerned, FRS produce some of the best radios in the world and my Ham experience is far better now than it ever was.
One last thought, if you can afford 5 Flex radios, then surely you can afford to buy one copy of the software and try it. If you don't think it adds to you experience, don't upgrade your other radios.

The choice is yours, buy the upgrade or don't but please stop whinging about something you knew from day 1 of buying a Flex radio.

Tim

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Kevin

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We've been here before. We'll be here again. New people come to the group. Old people (from a forum perspective) have issues that remain unresolved. $200 is not trivial. For me, that would be paying $200 to stay up to date on the latest code everyone else is using even if I'm not using any of the new features. I do not believe I would get bug fixes to old issues if I stuck with 1.x.

So... maybe not new to you but new or still of importance to others.

The choice is yours, ignore the thread or not but please stop whinging about something you know is going to happen every time someone asks for $200 for questionable (by some) updates.

Point is, there's tons of great threads to join in on in this forum. If this one is not to your liking try one of the others. Or not.

Kev
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I think we need to be clear about a few things.
It is important to understand what a bug in SSDR is and what type it is.

Any bug that effects the performance of the radio or makes the radio work poorly will always be addressed for all the versions, V1  V2 and so on.

Critical  bugs are not version frozen. New features are.

People complaining of having many many bugs? what are they? count them. And in what type are they,,critical or non critical. It is up to Flex to determine what type they are. Not us.
Also, as an example. If Flex decides to work on the NB and ANF again and it happens to fall in V3,xxx,  then that work and corrections would be back ported into V2 and maybe V1 because these filters are not new features. They are pre existing ones needing updating. But as V1 is feature frozen so will V2 at some point. Likely after V3 is out.

If Flex does work on the DSP in a way that it is a new feature in the way it works in V3 or V4,,then yes to get that upgrade we would need to buy that new version.

I know Flex employees do not post here much any more, but if I am way off target then a comment would be nice on this.
(Edited)
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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ok, my opinion now. Bla, bla bla bla, bla bla, bla bla. Same old, same old repeated many times in the past. Should just cut and paste from old threads. First off the thread title even with the question marks is designed to guarantee responses from both sides. Anyone who thinks there is an annual fee to operate a Flexradio is just plain misinformed for all the reasons stated by many so far. You need to do some BASIC and I mean basic research. It's all been said here many times before but I do understand there are many new users of this community and Flexradio who don't know how to use the search feature of the community.

As per subscription for remote, as much as I don't like to shoot down ideas, the scenario of someone paying a monthly subscription so they can remote in to their own radio is a model that isn't worth the time to discuss. Who will actually pay that? Of all the people I know who have gotten a Flexradio, I can't think of anyone who would every pay a subscription in order to remote to their radio.

I and others have said this in the past. The ball is always in FRS's court when it comes to updates. If the features/improvements are good, people will upgrade. If they are not, they won't. FRS has a track record of implementing innovative and industry leading features and it is in their best interest to continue to do so, and all of us will benefit. OK, said it, now to get off my high horse.
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Michael Coslo

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Hi Mike - You bring up the title of the thread " SmartSDR - Annual Costs - ????"

We can answer that question immediately. 

The annual cost of operating a Flex radio is $0.00. 

You can if you wish, purchase newer versions of the software. No one is forcing anyone. 

But I don't know if they changed the radios, (of course they didn't) but my 6300 I recently traded in, would function very well if I loaded the software from the original disc and ignored it afterward. 

All radios can have issues. All radios do. I also use a K3S. The Panadapter is bad. You can tune and the signal you are looking for disappears in the noise that shows up. Great on CW, Just okay on SSB. Our KPA1500s did get a firmware update recently - to keep them from blowing up on 160 meters. We have a 7610. It's okay, but not terribly intuitive. I could have saved a few thousand by buying one. But it just isn't the radio. And they've been having their own issues. One thing I do know - if I lose power during an update, I don't brick my Flex and have to send it back.

I'd just advise people to consider if they are happy with their radio. I'd advise to try a few experiment with things they think do not work. Life is too short to become angry about a radio, and about paid updates that you may or may not need.
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Pete - W6OP

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You really need to look at the whole idea differently. You buy a PC which is hardware. It came with Windows XP, MSOffice and some other apps. As time goes by you can "pay" for an upgrade to Windows 7 and then to Vista and then to Windows 10. You may also buy MSOffice upgrades and upgrades to other apps.

Or, you can stay on Windows XP and the original version of all your apps until there is something that compels you to upgrade the OS or an app. Or wait and buy a new PC at some future date that has the newer software.

The Flex Radio is the same, you bought a piece of hardware that came with some software and it will continue to work without upgrades. If there is something in the upgrade you want or need bad enough then pay for the upgrade. Or wait and buy a new Flex with new software at some future date.
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Craig Williams

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Best comment so far.
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Joe N3HEE

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Very true.  And lets face it, this technology is moving at a very rapid pace, Flex will inevitably come out with a new or updated hardware platform within the next 5 years.  
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Dave

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They have already discounted and added new hardware 6xxx series.  The 6300/6500 are discontinued but still are eligible for updates. Of course the addition of the 6400/6600 (M).  
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Ken Hansen

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From where I sit in America, the difference between $200 and €242 looks a lot like cost plus VAT, and that added cost is because of local politics & gov't policies, nothing Flex has any control over.
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EA4AYW

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Sure, but the consumer has to pay, and therefore be flex or state you have to pay € 242. and this comes out of your pocket.
nobody pays you

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Ken Hansen

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The 21.5% VAT is a tax that Spaniards have imposed on themselves to fund their local government, you can't reasonably expect Flex to offer it's goods at reduced prices in high-tax regions.
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EA4AYW

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Totally agree.
In each region you have your taxes.
and this can not be discussed.
But you have to be realistic.
in Spain, the flex license does not cost € 200.
yes no € 240
therefore we are not talking so cheerfully of $ 200.
I know that flex here does not influence,
but if it affects our pocket.
even if you do not want to see it.

and I know that in some other region the tax is still more expensive, as has been said in the thread.
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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Complain about the amount or the business model, it still all boils down to whether it is worth it to your station to upgrade or not. If your budget can't do it, that's ok because it is optional. Complaining about an optional $200 upgrade doesn't make sense to me, Icom is not offering me any upgrade for my 7600 still the same dumb radio that is loosing it's monetary value and it's value to my station, more and more every day. Since I don't make sense sometimes, I'll put on my complaining hat, let's see where this goes..

Today's Bank of Canada exchange rate on $200 US is $268.58 then we have HST of 13%, so the upgrade hits me at $303.50 Canadian dollars. 303 is a bigger number than 242 so I must getting ripped off. more than Spanish market right? Oh my, is there some radio amateur charity foundation out there to help me pay for my radio and my costly software upgrade? Also let me know if there is a charity fund for not so rich people so I can buy some golf clubs and pay for course fees, oh yeah. I use to have a boat, and had to sell it, Is there a charity to help me fund a new boat, come on.

Taking off that hat, sounds kinda silly doesn't it. I don't drink (too heavily), I don't smoke, cigarettes are very expensive here in Canada and I have family members spending well over $400 a month just smoking alone. That is over $5000 a year, that is just plain crazy I tell them. Quit smoking, reward yourself, go on a nice vacation with that money. So I think I can spend $303 dollars every couple years to upgrade my radio.


(Edited)
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Mark - WS7M

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Craig.  I want one too.  Specifically a CirrusJet or Eclipse EA550!  Still waiting for a call that it's at the airport waiting for me to take possession!
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Michael Coslo

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And I see that version 3 software  still doesn't include my demand for a built in smoker so I can cook a Brisket in it! 
(Edited)
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KC2QMA_John

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I have been saying for years how great it would be to have a built in Coffee maker in my radio.


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Ken Hansen

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Wait! Do you mean when folks say their radio comes from a smoker, they mean a meat smoker?!?! THAT explains the discoloration and smell... now I get it.
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Ken Hansen

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Coffee maker makes sense, my computer has a cup holder!
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Mark NS9N

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I am really amazed that this forum has come to this level. When you purchased your Flex Radio, if you read alll the information available, you knew what you were buying into.

In the end, if you don’t like the radio or the company’s policies, sell it and move on.

Sorry but I have owned both a 6500, 6600, and a Maestro. All have been great products but when I did not need the Maestro, I sold it. Same for the 6500. Point is, if you don’t like something you have purchased, sell it .

Life it too short to read ongoing blogs about what people like and don’t like and how someone wants to change how a company works.

If you don’t like your Flex radio sell it and buy something you think you will like better. But let’s get this forum back to helping solve technical issues and learning from others.
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KC2QMA_John

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Some of those taxes are why the other countries have universal Healthcare for all of it citizens!

We just use our taxes in the USA to start wars all over the world while ignoring the needs of our own people.

(Edited)
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Having lived in several countries abroad, I’m feeling pretty okay with the USA system. There are lots of axis of differentiation to weigh of course.

I’m also good with FRS present system of charging for major version upgrades, on a per radio basis.

In the end it is FRS’s call how they wanted to structure their program as well. We certainly cannot imagine that beyond the buy or not decision that we have any real say in whatever policy they have picked.

As there is no annual fee of any sort, no subscription payment, there is no compulsion to spend any money to keep a Flex-6000 going. The premise of this thread comes from a misstatement.

As for what exchange rate, what taxes and final costs either a radio or an upgrade costs, FRS has been pretty transparent and fair in not letting costs of individual circumstances be spread among all buyers. If getting your radio in country-x requires a local dealer, local taxes, transport costs, special certification and other added business/transaction costs you need to pay those. It is marketplace socialism to expect those costs to be equalized by building them into everyone else’s purchases.

As most of us posting here have a Flex-6000 and some several units, their program is working well enough that we have bought in. Makes the drama-queen grinding kind of pointless?

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Ken Hansen

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KC2QMA_John - please, no politics, this is an international community.
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KC2QMA_John

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Please read all prior comments from other users before commenting.

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EA4AYW

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Hi Tim.
First of all, no, I'm not offended by the exchange of opinions either.
which are very free to do.
I honestly would tell you to change the procedure.

instead of charging $ 200 each year or every 2 years as it seems to be, what I would propose is a subscription as if it were to a magazine.
and obviously more economical for the user.
Surely flex would have more users.
or in another way, instead of their radios costing what they cost.
I would lower the amount of said radios at much more affordable prices and then if I charge $ 200 for the software.

What I do not see viable is that the radios do not come down in price.
and that the software costs what it costs.

and I do not say that you do not have to invest the software, because to the tests I am sending you that without the software, the flex stations could not work as they are now.

But make it a little easier for people to have these fantastic radios without having to go bankrupt.

since the market of the flex is not that of the radio amateurs if not the military one.
so that it is the government that pays and the one that subsidizes.
and not our pockets.
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KC2QMA_John

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1.There are NO annual software fees.

2.You can upgrade at any time and even skip over versions and still only pay $199 usd.

3. As Mark said “If you don’t like your Flex radio sell it and buy something you think you will like better”

4. With a Flexradio the radio just keeps getting better. In fact if you own one of the older radio that run PowerSDR the software is still getting update years after the radios have been discontinued. You cant say that about any of the traditional radios. Even the Icom IC7300 will only get a few Bug fixes/Updates and then that's it.

I believe $199 is a very fair price to pay for State Of The Art software that continues to be developed and improved.

Because the title of the this thread is not accurate as there are NO annual costs, I vote to close this thread.

(Edited)
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KC2QMA_John

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When V3 comes out I will wait for feedback from other users and if it looks like it has features that interest me I will upgrade, If not I may just wait for V4, Then I get all the items from V3 and still only have to pay $199 for V4. So to me this sounds very fair.

As far as Taxes go, That is imposed by each country's government so you can not blame FlexRadio for that.

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KC2QMA_John

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FRS will gauge it’s software development based on customer demand.

So what does that mean, It means if a large amount of people upgrade to V3 then they will know that they are delivering what the customer wants and are on the correct path.


Now on the other hand if they see a poor or unenthusiastic response to V3 FRS will know that they have to deliver more of what the customer wants in future versions to get more users to upgrade their software.

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Lance Rasmussen

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I've lost count the number of times I've bought software products and if the upgrades came out less than a year from purchase, I had to pay. The usual standard is 30 days from new release. And some will go 60 or 90 in a means to promote a free upgrade. So expectations of getting a year is unrealistic.
That being said - I've also purchased software that had an extra fee or was promoted with a software maintenance that accommodated free upgrades and updates up to 1 year after purchase.
Point being - Flex, like all companies, is free to set their policies and pricing as they wish. You dont like - use your pocketbook to let them know and not buy Flex. Otherwise - if you dont want the upgrade, dont buy it. If you do, buy it. YOU have the freedom of choice.
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EA4AYW

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I want to make it clear that I am not blaming Flex for the taxes of each country, because we already know that it has nothing to do with it.

What I mean is that having to pay $ 200 for the software, users do not cost $ 200, if not $ 200 plus taxes.
nothing more.
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EA4AYW

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If this is so, it would seem right to me.
As I have seen the news of the V3, apparently not so necessary to pay for them.
unless you are a season of contests, or have a lot of money.

I particularly the v3, I will not buy it.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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It is too bad that you can't find anything good to say about Flex products. Much of what you said is simply incorrect and misinformed. I wish I had the energy to correct them one by one but there are to many of them.

You mentioned your interested in Sun SDR? I just checked them out,,wow $6.999.00 US for the cheap one, and that's much more here in Canada. Another 35% And you think Flex is expensive?
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EA4AYW

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Hi.
If I mentioned the sun SDR, it is not necessary to have the top of range, with the lower version is more than enough and its price starts at € 1500 and other includes 144 (VHF) which flex only includes it in version 6700 and if We talk about price this version costs more than the SUN SDR.
and the advantage of sun sdr, is that it does not charge for its updates.
Eye, I do not like sun sdr, I'm flex.
and my policy is against having to pay so much money for the updates.
if you pay 10 updates it is as if you had paid a flex 6400 or a 6300.
you believe that waste is logical.
when the news of the version 3 for the majority does not serve them.
and I repeat this in my hand update or not.
but this is not the case we are dealing with.
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EA4AYW

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I'm sorry to tell you, you're not understanding anything.
nobody is crying for the v3.
what is being discussed is that flex should not charge so much for these versions, when the biggest update that these versions have are bug fixes that originated in older versions.
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EA4AYW

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Strongly agree Lawrence
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Matt (K0KB)

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On what entitled socialist planet is remote access and multi user a bug fix?
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Michael Coslo

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The same one that makes people try to turn every topic into politics. 

Most Respectfully, knock it off - we don't need that sort of BS. Can this thread be closed now? Looks like with it's degeneration, it is pointless.
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Ken - NM9P

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Flex began with a $199/yr maintenance fee and nixed that within the first year in favor of the current system. I seriously doubt they will go back to an annual fee. If I had been on the old plan, I would have paid an additional $800 by now. As it is, I have upgraded one time to V.2 and as an Alpha Tester have paid for V.3-Alpha. ... half of what the old system would have been.

In addition, under the current system, upgrades are totally optional. If you skip one, or two, or more upgrades, the next one only costs $199. No retrograde fees are added.

In my book that is a great deal. Considering the original price of my 6500, it has been well worth the cost.
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Johan / SE3X

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Second that! if Flex would change back to a maintenance fee instead of current system, send me an e-mail .. I will have a 6700 for sale immediately!
(Edited)
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EA4AYW

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What you are proposing is called censorship.
and my friend, that has long since been eradicated.
If you do not like what you read, please do not read it.
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FISHULA X

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 I have the best radio I have ever owned, This is my 4th Flex and my first 6000 series. I just don't understand why all the long drawn out Hub Bub?  Flex gives you the option to buy or not to buy. Then they even show release notes so you know exactly what your getting with the update. Remember, Flex is made in the USA. And If you have an issue, you can call them and they actually call you back, unless you are a lid. I am quite sure they get many many phone calls with issues that can be solved by just reading the manual or instructions. The Flex 6000 series is a complex unit and some old timers have issues with technology. It's true and you know it, Now not all do, but lots do. Let be serious. Some questions in these forums are downright head shaking.. 
 And I been inside all of my Flex radios. I clean the fans and give them a general look about.
 All I see is quality. Is this not what we want?? I sure do. I am a very happy Flex owner and any way  you look at it. with Flex and SSDR. It saves you money. You only need one radio, and you can take your Maestro or laptop and use it anyplace you want that has internet. So, we only need one radio at home, I used to need one at my place of business plus another antenna, another power supply. So in my opinion. When Flex has an upgrade and you see that you need it or don't need it simply by reading the release notes, then don''t buy it.   Nobody is forced. And on the used market guys do look for the latest and the greatest. But I have the greatest and I am very happy. This is just my opinion. I love Flex radio and that is that.
(Edited)