Should I sell my Palstar HF-AUTO so I can get Tuner Genius?

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I preordered the PowerGenius XL within 3 minutes of it being announced and see it comes with the TunerGenius.  Would it be safe to say that I can sell my Palstar HF-AUTO and just use the TunerGenius on my 8 band Buckmaster?
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Greg - KØGDI

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Posted 2 years ago

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Mack McCormick, Elmer

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Official Response
Greg,

Just to be sure you know, the Tuner Genius, is included at no charge with pre-orders of the Power Genius XL. 

I recommend you keep your Palstar Tuner for a while until the exact specs (SWR ratio's) the Tuner Genius can handle are published. I'm testing the amp now and can report it performs fantastically. You'll really like it when it's shipped. 

In my case all of my antennas are resonant 160M to 900 Mhz and so no tuner is needed at this QTH. 

73,

Mack
W4AX
Alpha Team
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Greg - KØGDI

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Thank you for your reply.  I'll keep the HF-AUTO for a while.  :)  Just trying to consolidate some stuff to make that final amplifier payment when it comes due.  
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Jim Gilliam

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The Palstar uses a roller inductor and variable capacitors which has a much higher Q and, therefore, less loss than the relay type tuner of switching in lumped circuit elements. I would elect to use the Palstar over the switching type tuner.


Jim, K6QE

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Michael Aust

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I recommend you keep the HF-Auto Palstar Tuner.
Has much wider tuning range especially on 6meters due to
lower loss.
It's slower, but can handle 1.8Kw easily !
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Michael Aust

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I also put my order in for the Power Genius XL & have Palstar HF-Auto 
and plan to keep Tuner !

Have Fully loaded mint K3 with mint P3 need to find new home to make room for Amp
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Mark Griffin

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Greg,
I have the SPE 1.3K FA amplifier. I purchased mine without the autotuner. Reason is because it only can handle a maximum swr of 3.0:1. If your Buckmaster has SWR's that are higher then that, then keep the HF-Auto.  I use my HF-Auto with my SPE, and have no issues at all. Plus, I saved $1,200.00.  If you antenna is like most, 40-160 will have higher swr's than the other bands. Plus, if you have the antenna cut for the CW portion of the band, and you desire to go to the phone portion, your SWR's will rise.

All in all, Keep the tuner and enjoy the new amplifier.
Mark Griffin, KB3Z
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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I see "pre-orders". I thought it was any orders made in 2017?  Has that changed to just pre orders?  If so when does pre-orders end with respect to manufacturing or first delivery?
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Paul Christensen, W9AC, Elmer

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I think the advice given to keep the Palstar is good -- just long enough to ensure the PG XL is tuning the Buckmaster OCF dipole.  If I were a bettin' man, I would place a wager that the PG XL will manage it fine. 

The transmission line SWR from your OCF should be under 3:1 on all bands. I don't see Buckmaster's typical SWR curves for the 8-band OCF version, but the 7-band version shows under 3:1 SWR at the OCF's optimum center and end heights above ground.  Assuming it's less than a 3:1 SWR, I cannot imagine the PG XL not managing that.  By managing it, I mean that's it's capable of tuning system reactance to zero, then presenting a Zo resistive impedance of 50 ohms to the amplifier (50+j0).   

There's an infinite number of R and X combinations that comprise one SWR on a Smith Chart.  But the magnitude of a 3:1 mismatch is so small, the PG XL should be able to tune any combination on the 3:1 circle. 

A poster above mentioned loss. Just because a tuner uses a roller inductor means nothing in the world of RF loss.  The rolling shorting bar alone can reduce coil Q to horrid levels, especially as frequency increases.  A good coil should have a Q of 200+.  Fixed coils with adequate turns spacing easily exceed this value, but few variable inductors will.  G3TXQ measured coil Q of a common 15 uH roller inductor:

https://www.w8ji.com/images/Tuner/rollercoaster_q2.jpg

As coil Q drops, loss increases.  Moreover, as SWR increases, and as load impedance is reduced (e.g., short antennas under 1/2 wave or under 1/4 wave verticals), loss can escalate out of control.  Just look at tuner loss in some QST product reviews.  Some of the worst performers use roller inductors. Capacitor Q is also important but is rarely a factor as air and vacuum variables are intrinsically high Q.  Don't be fooled by what a tuner looks like inside the cabinet. We have to look at the tuner as if our eyes can visualize RF. 

As this Java model from W9CF shows, loss of the common "T" type tuner is a mostly a function of: (1) shunt coil Q; and (2) output capacitor value. 

http://fermi.la.asu.edu/w9cf/tuner/tuner.html

A disaster is set up when coil Q is compromised, and small-value adjustable output capacitors are used to save on production expenses.

Paul, W9AC
(Edited)
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Michael Aust

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Never been a Fan of OCF Antenna's because part of the feedline can cause RFI close to the shack and get into things, cabling, etc.

 Always like using baluns but beware of not overdriving them.

Also, beware, some of the Buckmaster OCF's have feed Balun's that overheat, especially the 300Watt Versions and cause them to crack, if you go over their Max Limit's, then moisture get in and they become erratic under high power, SWR changes, etc.

Only OCF I use would possibly be the 5Kw Version if driving with a Power Genius XL Amp !

(Edited)
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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Love my Buckmaster OCF... the 3KW version. 7 bands, easy to hoist between three trees.

I'd love a tower and a Yagi even more, no doubt... but I'm not a rich man and must confess that I don't much enjoy the "install your antenna" part of our great hobby.

I hear you, though... OCF is a compromise.

Peter
K1PGV
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KF4HR

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My Palstar HF-Auto works every time.  Palstar provides firmware upgrades that work every time and don't create negative side effects.  No customer reviews yet on the TunerGenius.  Need I say more?
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Brenton Meadows

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Hi From Tangambalanga North East Victoria Australia,

I absolutely love my Palstar HF Auto, its been able to take a huge bashing(not literally haha) but after 4 years, it has never let me down, its so handy in so many ways.
I have not had a great chance to look at the new Flex Tuner but like many above, I may grab one but would never sell my HF Auto, just a part of the furniture here these days.
The other item of interest is the amplifier and feedback that evolves, I use an Acom 2000 and an Acom 1000 and am interfacing the Acom 2000 at the moment with no great difficulty.  Our interest in the amplifier is more for some of our defense contract needs but I may get my arm twisted to tack one on the end of the Flex6700.  Im also a recent recipient of the Maestro, just unreal engineering, performance and flexibility to annoy my wife in the lounge room.  This Flex Radio bug has really bitten but remember guys, Dont forget the XYL, a gift out of the blue is a great way to keep the eyes off the the radio expense account haha...So off to the shops to buy something for the wife, and then the Flex items on the accounts wont be noticed.....Hopefully haha....Cheers Brenton VK3CM Tangambalanga Australia  PS Photo of these are my favorite hand model (my neighbour), Samantha my Beautiful XYL is being given these at lunch today as a thank you for putting up with one eccentric ham radio operator who even takes his Maestro to bed(with headphones)....Im sure that wont last to long, even with bribes pictured.


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Richard McClelland, AA5S

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As far as bribes go, this one looks to be more than sufficient, you may even be able to keep your Maestro with you.
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Ned K1NJ

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     Love my Palstar, but it won't be finding itself at the base of the antenna.  On the other
hand, Tuner Genius will be right where it belongs.

                    Ned,  K1NJ