relax, don't do it...

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  • Updated 3 years ago
  • Planned
  • (Edited)
The 2 recent threads on this forum
(6500 power output, and the power button issue) have left a dark uncomfortable cloud over the forums value to the wider user-base. There are over 3000 members on this forum, yet only a small handful feel able (willing) to contribute to topics. We should all being asking why that is?

A small number of people are really helpful and expect nothing in return. However, some project an intolerant and authoritarian (often protectionist) position, as though some kind of self-appointed experts and gate keepers for FRS.

Their input is often not helpful and carries no authority. Yet by jumping to defend FRS (even on topics where no real defence is necessary) they tend to do more harm than good. This will make people unwilling to ask for help on problems and/or suggest ideas, leading to frustration and a feeling of being put down or simply discounted by them, and therefore by inference by FRS as well (which is not the case).

This “attitude” within the forum feeds resentment at the other end of the scale too., where people are venting their spleen in anger and frustration about relatively minor technical issues. They create brand-new forum accounts (e.g. Sam Johnson 0 posts, 0 likes) to gain some attention. Why?, I assume they probably feel the need to make a big noise in order to get heard about a small but highly frustrating issue, yet at the same time fear being shot down for suggesting something may in fact be wrong or could be improved [gasp].

Both of the extreme ends of this vocal spectrum are unhelpful. It’s my belief that the vast majority of Flex users (the other 2,900 in the middle-ground) are suffering, and overall the FRS brand and the products future [our radios] would suffer in consequence. These middle-ground people have genuine input, concerns, problems, ideas, product expectations, wish-lists etc. yet they don’t want to fight against the constant flack and ego-massaging of the vocal and opinionated minority in order to be heard.

We all want the same thing in the end - the best radio we can get. Personally I want to read all the daft ideas, and the problems, no matter how crazy they sound. I can do that without someone strangling the topic at birth, simply because it doesn’t match their personal ideology for the product. We need to encourage radical unbridled “out of the box” thinking and thus gain a radically better product from it.

Flex Is a consumer product being sold in to a consumer market - to amateurs, not professionals. It isn’t some high-end scientific work of art that is destined to sit in a glass cabinet and be goggled at in awe. We want it to do stuff, great stuff, stuff that we can all use and enjoy, and be very proud of the results we get from it.

I fear that we might be unwittingly working towards a utopia (for some) that the F6k is only right for the minority of (sophisticated) users and uber-geeks. This would create an elitist market position and dissuade the majority of the market from wanting one. In time that will undermine the products’ future. Flex has to be mass market product, it must sell lots and lots of hardware and even more software. There is little new to come from the SDR hardware arena for a good while yet, software is the money spinner and that has to be feature rich and enticing FRS needs to be appealing to almost all hams (no matter how experienced they are). To do anything else would be a self-defeating prophecy.

Guys, instead of picking fault with the above, why not have a moment of quiet reflection.

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Steven G1XOW

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Posted 3 years ago

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Jim Gilliam

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I just read this self-serving bunch of garage. I am getting sick of this whole forum with these intolerably long-winded self serving dialogues that serve no purpose. I am off this forum as of now...I can't take this crap any longer.


Jim, K6QE

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K4MT

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Nothing better could be said. Your right
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Mike va3mw

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Steve

I was going to write the same thing at some point.  Thanks for doing this.  A great example of the 80/20 rule.

Mike va3mw
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Walt - KZ1F

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Outstanding post Steve! Very well said!
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Barry N1EU

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I'm not sure why I don't see a "Like" link at the bottom of Steve's post, but I like it  ;-)
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Walt - KZ1F

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where it's an idea (and very good one at that) there is a vote button up top.
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Barry N1EU

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thanks Walt (duh)
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Marty Bluhm

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Amen! Couldn't agree more. Especially the last major paragraph.
73 Marty W8AKS
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Bill -VA3WTB

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This was an interesting weekend. Even Gerald got into it to explain things and was told he was dead wrong. There were some who could learn and others just never got their heads around his comments. I don't see it as a black cloud, around here. It is an open foum, it happens.

But as said above by Steve, taking time to reflect before a knee jerk comment is best, not really in those words...I wish I had a couple times.
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KC9NRN

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Well said.

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Terry K8EET

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Well said Steve,

I think most of us have used software that over time got so bloated with features that we discontinued using it.  Let's not let that happen to Flex. 
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Terry, I feel this is the beauty of SSDR. the method of API to make the radio do what ever we dream up and keeping the SSDR light. AS you know HPSDR is very large and needs a lot of horse power to run, they are always upgrading computers to handle it all. Glad to leave that all behind.
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Terry K8EET

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Bill,

I understand the beauty of SDR. I am one of what is probably the majority of FLEX owners in that in almost two years of operation with my 6500 I have never had a problem with the hardware or any upgrades.  Not that there aren't occasions where something happens that can not be explained or repeated on a regular basis. Those things happen with my computer on a regular basis.  I spend more time operating than thinking of things I wish my Flex would do.  I don't want to see it loaded down with menus and features I'll never use. Put the pressure on the manufacturers of amps, tuners, etc. to be compatible with Flex. 
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WA2SQQ

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Steve I’m employed by a major Japanese consumer electronics company, in an engineering position. Product quality is always my top concern. In addition to monitoring social media feedback, I rely on end user feedback, especially when it’s negative.  While I think I understand what you are saying, FRS is clearly demonstrating that same initiative. I believe, that any negative situation is an opportunity for that company to transform a potentially confrontational situation into a long term supportive relation with that customer. For me, such situations go hand in hand with one of the primary Japanese business philosophies, “Kaizen” – a continual improvement of its products. While FRS may not call it Kaizen, they are non the less practicing it!

Those who participate in these discussions  also need to recognize that despite any amount of product testing, it is impossible to simulate each and every nuance of how each customer will use their product. Compared to the other “top 3” amateur radio companies, FRS is extremely proactive, especially with it comes to quality issues – the recent RF Power Fold Back is a great example. For those who report such issues, FRS’s responses are both fast and private, as any responsible company will not go public with quality issues until it can be determined that the matter is genuinely due to a manufacturing issue. In comparison, the “big 3” tend to be more reactive, often taking a considerable amount of time to take any corrective actions, and usually waiting until many people are complaining.

And finally, we all need to consider that running a public forum like this is a double edged sword – while you can get some very valuable info, you also provide the vehicle for individuals to embellish a problem and make it sound far worse than it actually is. In each case we all need to allow FRS to study all the facts and take the corrective actions before any one person’s opinion transforms itself into someone’s conclusion.

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km9r.mike

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W Edwards Deming was a smart man ahead of his times.
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Jim, KJ3P

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Good words, Steve.

I always hesitate to jump in with "me too" praise, or, in response to an alleged equipment problem, "it's working OK here."  I just don't want to add to the noise floor.

But I feel compelled to say that, as an owner of three Flex radios spanning a few years, and now landing on my best radio yet (6500), I have never had one bit of trouble with Flex radios.  All upgrades went smoothly, all hardware worked as promised, and this was for radios in daily service in all kinds of modes and antennas.  When you think about it, this is a remarkable statement for such a cutting edge piece of technology.  Flex should be justifiably proud of their products and accomplishments.

As is the "problem" with so many other issues in life, the silent majority of Flex users are happily making QSOs, and investigating the deep features of their radios.  If a power button pops off (I've had this happen on a $250,000 video production console), they'll either pop the button back on, or (quietly) ask Flex about it.  Thankfully, we've all become pretty good at analyzing the "customer reviews" and comments here in the Flex Community, on eHam, as well as on Amazon and other online vendors.  It's amazingly simple to detect the wise guys, ignorant guys, and those guys who just don't "get it."  Anyone who doesn't purchase an item because of one outlier complaint, in the midst of hundreds of glowing reviews, deserves his fate.

I'm sure there's a psychology major somewhere working on a master's thesis about this phenomenon and the small-minded "flames" that some folks seem prone to on social media.  Thanks for caring.
(Edited)
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K4MT

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I have owned Flex radios since the 5000A and until a short while ago I have been using this community.

Those fan-boys that think Flex needs defending and try to dismiss any problem someone reports offer not one single thing to this forum.  Posting problems as well as praise will help Flex make these products even better.  But I myself, and several other users I know will not post here often because the fan-boys will go for your throat.

I see no benefit in this forum unless its a way for all of us to work together and help each other and make people feel comfortable about asking questions or discussing problems.

I love my Flex radio but the reality is no radio is perfect and problems are going to arise if being hardware/software or cockpit errors.  All of the above need to be handles with courtesy to encourage participation.

Also how many possible Flex customers come to this community to fin out what flex is all about?  What do they think about the rude behavior they see.  Had I come here before I purchased a Flex I most likely would have been turned off by these people who propose to speak on behalf of the Flex Company and would have never owned one of these fine radios.
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Michael Coslo

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One thing odd about your comment - you say you would not have purchased a Flex radio because you have issues with some of it's users? I'm having difficulty understanding the logic, and please forgive me if I have offended you, I am honestly curious, and will apologize again if you are.

I don't consider myself making a fanboy reaction, but I do not find that the Flex Radio determines the personality of the user. I would have bought one for it's performance. There are simply too many people in the world, with too many personalities and foibles for their personality to force my equipment decisions. 
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G8ZPX

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Michael, I did not say that. You may have misread?

I do have concerns about where some people want the product to go, and their own influence on that process. However, I have owned a Flex since the 1000, the 3000, the 5000a, and then F6300.

F6k has some way to go before being perfect, and I look forward to lots of improvements (mainly software). That being said it is still the best radio I have ever owned.

Rest assured, I won't be selling it just because a minority make inappropriate QRM.
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K4MT

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To me owning a radio is about performance and the ability to have a quality users group to discuss features, problems and general operation.  I like a good user community and I have always checked out the forums before buying a radio to see what other people are doing with and experiencing with their radio.

The fact you ask that question means you will not understand.  A person should be able to comment  on their radio and even if those comment are not positive without being slammed by a bunch of fan boys that tell you the issue cant possibly happen and you must be a moron or incompetent. 

I really hate to even post here because of the caustic comments.  No where on the mission of this forum says you have the be a flex radio lover to be here or even own a flex.

All people who post here deserve courtesy and a genuine effort by the group to help them.  If you dont like what they post then put your keyboard down and walk away.  If you can be objective and offer assistance then do so in a helpful manner.

For me a bad user group does not reflect well on the product.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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That makes little sense, the product is first rate..lol

K4MT..I don't think anyone is against what your saying. But when a person asked something, or wondering about something not work properly has been answered by Flex, or helped by someone and they just continue to slam Flex and we speak out about it makes us a FAN BOY,,well then?

But your point is well taken, understood.
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Michael Coslo

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Hi Steve - I was replying to K4MT's comment where he expressed  his dislike of  our attitudes and if he would have known about the group he would never have bought the radio.

And its an opinion, and one that i don't share, because rather than allow others to determine what I do, I make up my own mind. Its why I played Ice Hockey when many are smitten with the NFL, why my other hobbies are Amateur Astronomy, where I have with my hands made one of the most accurate surfaces that humans can produce, and where one might get the impression that many practitioners are true misanthropes. But okay, I asked and he answered. Its a personality thing. And different personalities have different needs. I'm cool.

I serve as an administrator for a QSO Party, as well as a moderator on a number of groups. I've been personally told to committ violence against myself, or users express fervent hopes that I'm murdered by someone, and called nasty names on a regular basis,  Its the internet, and even though some folks post in here of the horrible members, this place is a peaceful abode compared to the internet at large. 

Regardless, any moderation scheme must be carefully thought out, as many times people believe that moderation is needed for anyone they disagree with, and occasionally a heavy handed moderator can end up moderating so many posts that people simply stop posting altogether. 

At which time a person might come in and complain that they wouldn't buy the radio because no one is talking about it.

Because determining allowable content is not always as easy as it seems. 
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Michael Coslo

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Steve - I am in my own mind convinced that if a person wants to become proficient in the use of software defined radios, one must become proficient in software and therefore computers.

I also believe that the Maestro is an attempt to remove some of that acumen. However as a person who does a lot of computer support at the individual level, even that can be an issue. This isn't trying to be rude, but a simple fact. I'm convinced that any of these folk who have issues can teach me a thing or two. But like it or not, 

However, is there no psychological alowance when someone calls a radio that has performed flawlessly for me "a piece of crap"? If we were to take the liberty of a more extreme example, a person who calls a beloved family member  by some nasty pejorative will likely get an unpleasant response from other members of the family.  As one person here told me once, when I wondered if there was a possibility of separating the Maestro posts from the others, that I should just keep quiet. I do a lot more.

As in all matters here on earth, like tends to be responded to with like. I try to inject a little humor by offering to take the offended's radio off their hands for the price of postage, but haven't had that offer taken up yet. It's a real offer by the way.

But here is the thing. It's called "The tragedy of the commons" A person venting about the radio being "crap" is atteched to the group with the same gravitas as the Elmer who posts helpful answers for many people that have issues. And as the Tragedy of the commons and UseNet show, the helpful end up losing that battle. 

I guess I would ask the question of how would you respond to someone who posts a message like that?  I try to use a little humor, and point out th obvious, such as a radio under warranty deserves a help ticket. But I'll be drowned out.
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Michael Coslo

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Perhaps the proper response to anyone who calls the radio a piece of junk is to simply be quiet and not respond. 
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Walt - KZ1F

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I would consider someone who calls the radio a piece of junk, garbage, whatever to be in, perhaps an ill-advised, moment of hyperbole. As I am not them, that is merely a guess. It's on a par with calling the rank and file unsophisticated. It's when you get in their face, effectively calling them out, some, perhaps most, will respond in kind, which I took to be precisely Steve's point. I was surprised that thread went on as long as it did last night, completely awed it continued this morning. Don't people have day jobs? See my post from yesterday about Observation. When you poke a bear, it will, generally speaking, poke back. Plus, the op in those cases is ALREADY upset, salt, wound, you know? @Gerald, you would be, likely, a happier camper if you had taken your wife out yesterday. :-)
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I think Gerald needs a hobby?
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Michael Coslo

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Good one Bill! 

As an owner of one of these fine radios for around a year now, I have to say I've never seen such service before. This guys bend over backwards to help, and my other rdios it's great luck to get the mfgr to even admit there is an issue. Now if I can get my financial advisor to allow me to upgrade, ima gonna have a 6700!
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Official Response
Steve,

I genuinely appreciate your concern, which I also share.  We at FlexRadio are caught in a major dilemma.  We want to have an open forum but the downside of all social media is that it is very easy to cause hurt feelings either intentionally or unintentionally.  There are also those who live to stir things up or just like to be king of the hill.  There are those who have too much time on their hands or are lonely for attention.  There are those who simply take up too much bandwidth.  Some defend FlexRadio too much and some want to cause us harm and thus harm the entire community.  There are even some I can call by name who have for some reason dedicated the rest of their life to our demise.  This happens in all types of social media - not just ham radio.  However, it makes this job a lot less fun and a lot more challenging.

I tried for a several weeks recently to read all the posts in this forum and found that I was getting almost no work done.  It was eating up my weekends as well and could spoil my time with family when rants come up.  I recently told Tim that I have to back away and that he needs to let me know when there is a thread that needs an official response.  I spent a lot of time on here this weekend to the not unreasonable displeasure of my wife.  It is not fair for Tim to have to read the Community all weekend even though he is the moderator.  I see some people challenging us because we don't instantly give an official response over a weekend or maybe the challenge got lost in the overall low SNR.  It is almost an impossible task with the volume of posts to read and respond to everything of import.  That would almost take a full time dedicated person now.

We have already scheduled a meeting to discuss how we manage the Community to make it a more enjoyable and productive forum.  I expect that we will make some adjustments.  We want to make it open but there are appropriate limits.  I think the Golden Mean and the Golden Rule both apply to all who wish to use this Community.

Golden Mean:
In philosophy, especially that of Aristotle, the golden mean is the desirable middle between two extremes, one of excess and the other of deficiency. For example, in the Aristotelian view, courage is a virtue, but if taken to excess would manifest as recklessness, and, in deficiency, cowardice.
Golden Rule:
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  (Matt. 7:12)
Two simple rules that would change all of humanity if we truly all lived by them.  I try and often fail.

The bottom line is that our products and people are not perfect.  We care and we try hard every day to learn, grow, and to provide better products and services.  We want everyone to receive pleasure from using our products.  It is discouraging when we fail but we just pick ourselves up and keep going.

I sincerely ask that each of you reading this Community commit to living the Golden Mean and the Golden Rule when posting here.  

Sincerely,
Gerald
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Ken - NM9P

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I may have posted this thought before, but as a pastor of 30+ years experience dealing with people, I have learned through experience and training this important lesson:

Ever critic is a teacher, if you pay attention.  They will teach you one or two things:

1) They may teach you something important about YOU that you need to grow and improve...

2) They may teach you something important about THEM that you may or may not be able to help, but it may still be important to KNOW as you deal with them.

Many people offer helpful criticism in category #1 that may be painful to hear, but helpful in the long run.

Others reveal a hurt, need, or situation in their loves (category #2) that presents an opportunity for me or others to serve them.  This is also helpful information.

Other people offer nothing constructive at all.  But their criticism, tone, and attitude may give us important clues into their situation that can help us understand them better, may take the sting out of their attacks, or may teach us that we need to simply let them vent and then get on with life without reacting to them or taking it personally.  (I do the same with hate mail / unsigned mail I receive occasionally.  I ask "Is there any helpful information here about ME?"  "Is there any information here about the other person?"  if not....it gets "round filed." 

Every criticism needs to be heard, but not every criticism needs to be given equal credence. 

When someone immediately goes on the attack without even attempting a resolution, It tells me a lot about THEM.  Often either that they are very hurt and don't know how do deal with their frustration maturely, or that they aren't really interested in solutions, only venting.
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Greg - N8GD

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Ken,

Having read almost all your comments over the past 2+ years that I have been a Flex 6K owner, I need to take this opportunity to congratulate you for your always thoughtful and informative comments. Your background as a pastor shows through in your excellent people skills, but as a great bonus, you are quite technically proficient, and have a knack for providing excellent explanations regarding the situations upon which you are commenting. I have long noticed that you are listed as an "Elmer" on this community. I would like you to be elevated to the title of "Elmer's Elmer!"

Greg - N8GD
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Ken - NM9P

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Thanks for the kind words.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Indeed! Ken, in the 3+ years that I have been on here, for the time since I noticed your posts, you have been, and continue to be, the poster guy for calm. You are a terrific representative for Flex. You were one of their better choices.
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Ken - NM9P

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"Poster boy for calm?".......but, Walt, you never saw all the posts that I DIDN'T send!  ha!   Or how many times I re-re-edited a post after asking myself "Do you really want to say it THAT way?" 
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Greg - N8GD

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This whole discussion leads me to make a comment about social media in general.  I have always found it difficult to really know and understand what someone else is trying get across when the only means of communication at their disposal is the written word.  Even in our hobby, the human voice adds much to the communication medium, wherein inflections, changes in tone, and even volume lend greatly to getting the message across to the listener.  Written words just can't convey those nuances.  Add to that the different writing abilities of the various posters, where some folks can get their ideas as well as feelings across in the written word better than others, and a lot of the important communication "information" is lost when words alone need to convey more than they possibly can.

I ran a high profile Amateur Radio packet BBS (bulletin board system) from 1985-1995 (pre-Internet), and was heavily involved in posting replies and comments to various messagesthat passed through my system, much as is done on this community.  I eventually found myself making comments that, after hitting the send key, I regretted.  It was easy to get pulled into the practice of "flaming" other posters that was uncalled for, which would have been avoided had I given my reasons for replying more thought and time.  There, it was easy to trample upon others, not really knowing them, or knowing the nuances of their thoughts or statements in their original posts.

Social media can be a great tool, but we all need to realize the limitations of the medium.  Trying to really communicate in a text or tweet of less than a dozen dozen characters leaves much to be desired.  Even with the luxury of more available words on this community (and other posting mediums), we all tend to not get the full message across - both ways.

Realizing the limitations of social media in truly being able to communicate, we all need to do a better job of conveying our ideas and feelings in words, while thinking long and hard about making that next comment!

Greg - N8GD
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Walt - KZ1F

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Personally I believe history will conclude the consumerization of the internet was a horrifically bad idea.but that genie has left the building, much less the bottle.

I do, howrv
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Greg - N8GD

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Walt, when I see young couples in a nice restaurant spend their entire meal on their phones texting or surfing the 'net, I wonder how much that kind of activity and non-communication between those two people will add to our already astronomically high divorce rate.  For myself, I've been happily married for 47 years, and I don't text much, especially when in front of a nice meal and a beautiful lady (my wife).

Greg - N8GD
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Walt - KZ1F

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I was thinking too about how splintered groups of disaffected people before social media were islands, now they are masses, whether domestically or internationally. Is Apples steadfast insistence of absolute user completely secure communications going to be shown, in history's light as a good thing or a bad thing? I think Orlando, as well as other places will prove we, as a society or even civilization, don't want these people finding each other, esp secretly. As it relates to here though, simply looking at Flex's about box, yeah, the Elmers are 'deputized'. I would think that would imply power and privilege the rank and file don't have. So that breeds an ecosystem of haves and have nots...so to speak. I think that is where a lot of this friction is coming from.

To your point though Greg, yep, that annoys the bagebbers out of me, people on their cell phones in restaurants, movie theaters, cars.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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Well, yeah, there's that...sort of like formula 1 race cars (maybe even nascar) and Americas Cup race craft. I think I meant consumer but not sure there is a lot of difference. In one facet, it's security vs freedom. When you have both, you actually have neither. Can one draw a line from the fear driving the Trump campaign and the consumer use of highly secure communications? I can. As it relates to social media on here, security and cell phone use was not my primary focus.
(Edited)
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Lee, Elmer

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What I find monstrously offensive is when discussing engineering concerns someone immediately jumps to screeching about CONTRACTS!! and legal duties where none exist.  Engineering is a complicated business which has many not always obvious constraints and trade-offs, and sometimes it takes some discussion just to flesh out the questions in a way that reveals those trade-offs.  Flex has proven itself time and time again to be extremely responsive to its users needs.  Some times that response takes consideration but often sheds light in due time.  Sometimes there is not a good answer given the state of the art.  Sometimes a change in the code might affect some other performance aspect but the trade-off is worth it.  Sometimes what people demand is a little bit crazy like demanding 0.4 dB increase in power that results several dB degradation in IMD.  People eventually get to an understanding about why things are the way they are but it takes a little knowledge massage to get there.  Sometimes it's not in Flex's interest to build degradation into their equipment.  I like it when someone tells me my audio and articulation is great and my bandwidth is spot on and that clean audio reflects on the Flex brand.

I also find it offensive that someone comes on with a ton of bricks attitude with a less than complete understanding of the issue or is simply promoting an agenda.  When those persons are then vigorously pushed back upon they sometimes complain about authoritative and autocratic responses.   The same golden rule should apply to questioners as it does to answerers.

Social media discussions like any other group goes through what is called a group process.  The group acts as its own governor on any one poster and opinion will tend to moderate as the discussion ensues and often light is glimpsed.  When one is in the middle of it it seems like all testosterone and fire bombs but actually NO BLOOD IS SHED, not one drop!  I was a physician in the Navy and I've seen my share of bloodshed and what goes on in this group doesn't represent a minute of what a couple of Marines experience when letting off some steam on a Saturday night.  

Often if you can put the vindictive aside, and consider in retrospect, a very deep and clear understanding of a problem emerges.  This is precisely what I see occurring if you read through the recent "power" discussion.  As the issues were revealed I saw many light bulbs go on.  I also saw the group come back together as apologies were made and references to the meaning of "uninformed" became the topic.  Finally K3TIM put up a picture of 2-tone distortion as measured on his freakin flex's panadapter!  If that isn't light I don't know what is.  So when discussing "what to do" do not be afraid to allow the group to process.  It's a very powerful means to build group loyalty and brand loyalty.  What I would like to see in this kind of discussion is a means to inject a little moderation (like some ALC) without totally squelching discussion.     

Finally I don't give a rip how Kenwood does it.

73  W9OY 
Photo of Sam Johnson

Sam Johnson

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I have been browsing this group while trying to decide what radio to buy/ I like to buy equipment where I can get friendly and helpful support.

Gerald was very kind in his posting to me and I see Flex as a responsive and well run company.  If I have a radio I do not want to waste time of people like Gerald and his staff and would look to the people in a group like this for advice and help before putting in some form of trouble ticket.

I must say, I am a member of many groups and no group has made me as mad as this one when I read posts like this.

I am an engineer and worked for a marine communications manufacturer but dont feel the need to rub it in others face to try to justify my point,   If you want to approach the power issue from an engineering point of view, simply saying that getting power output of 100 watts will hurt IMD and by how much does not fly. Give me lab results and then let me compare those results to other manufacturers radios that will do 100 watts with 13.8 out of the power supply.

You are obviously over impressed with yourself and if your an Elmer here then something is wrong.  You are opinionated and your posts reflect arrogance.

Also all questions should be allowed and only answers should be monitored. A group like this is not effective if people are afraid to ask questions because people like you will make rude remarks hidden in engineering babble.

I see you do posts like this elsewhere on the web so you will not change.  I expect my Elmers to be role models, something you are not sir.

This will be my last posting here as tomorrow I will order a radio you do not like. You can tell Gerald that you lost him a sale and I will order a K3S and I thank you for helping me with my decision.  

I  very much wanted a Flex 6700 but if I have to deal with Elmers like you here I will not be able to use this group.  I know you will have to respond in your normal arrogant way but I will not be here to read it. So fire away and Gerald needs to put people like you in your place as I will make sure everyone knows about this group.

ELMER HA HA 
Photo of Simon Lewis

Simon Lewis

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god help you if you go onto an Elecraft forum and tell them you don't like something then Sam  :)  Their forums are no better I can tell you from experience for voracious fanboys and defending of the 'faith' ! 

My advice - don't base the performance of the radio by the quality of the forums else you would never buy anything Sam - there are always the 'fanboys' and those quietly getting on with life. I worked a lot of DX on my 2 x 6500's - I've owned K3's - I wouldn't go back, my 6500 performs inordinatelty better.  

And I can tell you that they (elecraft) don't get it right either.. I received a brand new elecraft transverter that was unusable at 25w out because it overheats, an internal transverter that moved frequency by about 100 Hz everytime the GPS checked its ref frequency. All these devices had apparently been through large amounts of beta tests! So they are no better I can assure you.

I've owned all otther brands of mainstream radios and even some odd balls like the ELAD SDR, they all have some issues, manufacturing problems or oddball features that don't quite work like they should.

So don't jump too quick, the 6700 is a fine radio, a 6500 very respectable, even the 6300 kicks butt.

Scan the forums when you need help and just keep on walking when there's heated threads.

I'm happy to elmer you on the flex if you want anything answered - I've used mine on HF, VHF, microwaves and even moonbounce! I've a Maestro and I think I can just about answer anything a new user would need  now :)

Cheers Simon ZL4PLM
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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I agree with Simon.. this is perhaps one of the most civilized and helpful communities in ham radio... Seen it with Icom, Elecraft..don't dare question their products..

Don't try to ever question anything on the Expert Amp board.. I got skewered there for even daring to ask SPE to update their firmware so people could remotely control their amps... Fortunately I met personally with the president of SPE a couple of times in Friedrichshafen and he caused the changes to be made.. which of course benefitted everyone even the trolls on that board.

Sam - if you are actually legitimate in your interest in a 6700  (hard to tell without a call sign and zero history)... then I personally have owned or operated and contested with virtually every brand and model of radio currently on the market in a never ending search for the best possible tools for a contest station...  

The 6700 with Maestro is finally top of the line competitive in the contest world- at least on the par with the K3S if not better..   For ease of use, Spectrum display and DXing I put the 6700 as #1 now...

Features.. some things on the K3S are still better...but not enough to make me want to use them every day anymore..  As I said, I have used most all radios... I do not consider the IC-7851 competitive.. and the Hilberling's performance is easily eclipsed by both the K3S and 6700... in fact I spent time last summer at OK1ML with 3 - K3S, Hilberling, IC7851 and a 6700... Everyone preferred the 6700 and with the Maestro now.. none of the others are being used..in contest..  

OTOH.. I do a lot for NX6T contest station where we have 3 K3, IC-7800 and my 6700... Still have not broken through with Dennis N6KI to get him to dump the K3.
But with contest season approaching and the Maestro finally working well, I hope to make that breakthrough this year..

Like Simon Says  (@Simon I had to say that--Hi hi) - I too am available to help Elmer you --- plus if you are anywhere near on my travels around the world.. I love to meet new drinking buddies...

PS...W9OY has well established credentials as a very effective Elmer...

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Walt - KZ1F

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I previously thought only the Yahoo K3 board was the 'board' for K3. I've come to discover Elecraft has their own corporate board. Presumably ICOM? I say that because I don't see any of this sort of arrogant, condescension from those two Yahoo boards (k3, IC7300). However, having said that, the reason I am on here is I could no longer take Al's and whoever's SmartSDR board on Yahoo. My impression of those two other mentioned Yahoo boards was they were incredibly well behaved and respectful.
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Michael Coslo

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Still having a few Kenwoods, I still care about how they do it. And from persnal experience,  they don't do it anywhere near as well as FRS.
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Michael Coslo

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I've been trying to get my folks to dump the K3's for some 6700s. I learned that was not a wise conversation to have, as the reaction was distinctly negative and loud. Whatever, I might have to get a different group of folks.
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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I had a lot more luck. Ben - N6MUF - the CW Leader at NX6T dumped 2 K3 for 6300 because the 6300 filtering was better. Dennis N6KI..the UBER leader at NX6T will probably be buried clutching his K3. BUT he is willing to let me run shootouts K3s vs 6700+ Maestro.

Ultimately I need to get a higher Q rate with the 6700 and the K3 will be buried along with the Icoms

Results Matter.
(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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Flex employees take weekends off, you deserve it
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Official Response
Thank you for your feedback and we will take all of it under consideration as we discuss changes to how we moderate and manage the community moving forward.  

When the community was started, we wanted to provide a "safe place" where users and interested parties of FlexRadio products could engage with one another and with FlexRadio.  We purposely chose to loosely define community etiquette under the assumption that even if we had differences of opinions, everyone could express them in a mature and civil manner without resorting to snide comments and overly passive aggressive behavior.  

Over the years we have had to expand community usage "rules" (I really dislike that term) to cover some obvious areas that we wanted to avoid for the good of the community.  It appears that our social experiment where operating under the assumption what everyone would treat one another with respect and stricter rules of moderation were not needed is simply not working well and change is required.  

Ham radio is a hobby.  It is supposed to provide personal enjoyment and a break from the grind of the real world.  But the recent behavior expressed here, even after I posted a topic asking one another to be mindful of the community etiquette did little to help the situation. This concerns me and FlexRadio a lot.  So much where it is becoming obvious that some form of community moderation or "timeout" may be needed to stem the tide of ill will towards one another. This action is not what FlexRadio had envisioned or promoted for the community.  And I personally do not want to have to evaluate in detail every post, every day to determine if someone's behavior or comments have risen to the level of a transgression and initiate some level of corrective action as there are better productive uses of my time.

I have read through all the posts here and a wide range of views and opinions have been adequately expressed.  I think at this juncture, closing this post and allowing for a little cooling off time is warranted.  Thank you.

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