Questions of the new 3.0 Signature Series software

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The cut off date for a free upgrade to the new to be anownced 3.0 is Oct 1, 2018, when while this be formally relessed? I have owned my new 6400m for less than six months (Sept 21, 2018) and I will have to pay the $199? You are still on 2.49!
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kj4nkn

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  • disappointed

Posted 1 month ago

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KF4HR

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I suggest not jumping to conclusions.  Give Flex a call with your concerns.
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WX7Y

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Only if you want the multi-user feature, there are still a lot of people running version 1 because they didn't want remote capability albeit there hasn't been any real update to version since version 2 came out but hope that isn't the case with version 2 when 3 comes out.

give Flex a call once V3 comes out and see if they will grandfather your radio into the updates.

Bret

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Ken Hansen

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Pure speculation, but assuming a 6 month window for 'included'/gratis upgrades to SmartSDR it would appear it will ship approx. Apr. 1st, as that would be about 6 months after the upgrade cutoff.

That 6 month window is a guess, as is the delivery date, based on your announced cutoff date of Oct. 1.

As always, SSDR is a feature update that included fixes/improvements to the SSDR 2.0 base. All fixes that impact features in SSDR 1.x or SSDR 2.x will be released as version-appropriate updates soon after SSDR 3.x is available.

You only need to buy SSDR 3.x if you want the new features it includes, it is not needed to correct any known issues in SSDR 1.x or SSDR 2.x.

With a purchase date of Sept. 18, the announced Oct. 1 cutoff would mean you would have to pay the fee if you wanted to upgrade your radio to include the NEW features in SSDR 3.x., or you could wait for the upcoming SSDR 2.x update to correct any issues addressed in SSDR 3.x that are NOT new features.
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Michael Walker, Technologist

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The only cutoff date is if you bought your radio prior to October 1, 2018.

Mike
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WB4SQC

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Growl. What are the new significant features beyond the scope of the 2.xxx SDR ? I have owned my 6400 less than a year but will consider the upgrade only if it is of value for the fees for a less than a year old rig.

Benny Peterson, WB4SQC
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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Right now MultiFlex is the main option in 3.0. This allows different people to share a radio.


Future 3.x releases may include additional features which have not been made public yet. If the initial release of 3.0 doesn't have features that are useful to you, then hold off purchasing the upgrade when there are features you feel are worth the money. 

Your radio will continue with the current version you are running.

Dave wo2x
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kj4nkn

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I had called prior to posting here. I was given "you only need to pay if you want the 3.0 features". What the point was that I would have to pay $199 in such a sport time after purchasing the radio.  Not that I may or may not want the new feature(s). There was no indication as to a timeline, but if v3.0 were to be released say the Apr 1st as mentioned above then that would mean all further development would stop and 2.x would only see maintenance releases and we are only at v2.49 at this point. Seems to be a bit early to introduce a new(er) version.


If v3.0 comes out six months from now than that is another story and I understand they have to draw a line somewhere. But as of right now they would not help to clarify this

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Kevin

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"you only need to pay if you want the 3.0 features"

Hearing that from those in the community - meh, their opinion and so much of that is questionable.

Hearing that from Flex? That is a totally lousy answer.

It's the 1/2 of a worm left in that delicious apple you just bit into. totally lousy.

73,
Kev K4VD
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Tom N5MOA

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"you only need to pay if you want the 3.0 features" beats the heck out of "you have to pay or your radio stops working".
Or, "here is our new model, buy it if you want new features". That sounds like pretty much every other radio manufacturer.

They could have said no free upgrade unless the radio is purchased AFTER the release date.  Going back approximately 6 months BEFORE the release for a free upgrade is very generous of them, imo.

When I bought my 6500 2 1/2 years ago, it had all the features I wanted. I didn't buy it expecting to have features added later, free or otherwise.
I paid the fee and upgraded to v2 9 months later, mainly just because. My choice. I didn't/don't have any interest in operating remote, the main new feature of v2, but there were enough smaller improvements for me to upgrade.

v3 features, per their release on Jan 28, 2019

SmartSDR v3.0 is an optional upgrade and customers can choose to continue operation on their current version of software. Customers that have purchased a FlexRadio FLEX-6000 series transceiver or a SmartSDR v2.x license starting October 1, 2018 have already been pre-licensed for this SmartSDR v3.0 and can upgrade to v3.0 at no charge. SmartSDR v3.0 is expected to be available for download in March 2019.

Ability to Use Multiple Clients at One Location  not interested in using a Maestro, so no use to me.

Reduced Station Costs for Contesters   lazy/occasional contester, no interest

Enhances Remote Operation Capabilities  zero interest in remote operating, or having another op log in.
 
In addition to the multiFLEX feature, this first release of SmartSDR 3.0 will also include:
new band settings menu/panel that allow a user to set certain settings per band like power levels, TX inhibit, ACC/TX1/TX2/TX3 enables, RCA/ACC TX request enable and HWALC    I already save power levels per band, by saving them per band, the other settings I see no need to alter on a per band basis.


TX/MIC Profile Changes – all settings are now saved on the fly (as settings are changed)     nope. If I am trying a new profile, I wouldn't want it to auto save/save until I'm ready to do that.


 Unless something else not mentioned yet is in it, I'll pass on v3.

73, Tom N5MOA
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N5LB - Lionel B

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I’ll decide when I see the full upgrade info, new stuff, bugs killed, existing features improved.
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Scott N8UMW

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If no existing features improved, then not worth the money.
(Edited)
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Clay N9IO

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Have read through this thread and question the "Beware" in the title. kj4nkn I get your purchase time frame issue BUT 2.49 is a full and robust, not like someone took a hammer to the radio. We're all good on it. It's exactly what you and I bought in to.
Now in the natural progression of things Flex programmers have been working on Ver 3 for quite some time. At long last It's about ready for primetime.
I have understood since WAAAAY back that Ver 3 was going to begin Multiclient. I have been looking forward to that single feature for a long time now. I want to use the Maestro along with SSDR on the PC, period. Of course it will be capable of much more as it too progresses.. Point is that it had to happen eventually. If Multiclient is something you can live without then seriously not to worry Ver 2.4.9 is not going to disappoint. You're whole on this my friend.

Just saying I fail to see where you've been done wrong.

Clay N9IO
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Steve - N4TTY

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What Clay said!
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Kind of unfair thread title and an inconsiderate assertion that v3 should be delayed because it is personally bad timing for ham purchases close to the cutoff. There is always going to be a cutoff date.

I’m excited to see version 3 launch, and I have to pay to upgrade my radios.

It’s going to be fun using version 3!

I’m also awake enough to notice that FRS said there will be another v2 version this year.

Also awake to notice that FRS is confident enough about the game changing capabilities of v3 to be running an expensive PR campaign in the run up.

Understanding the emotions behind the premise I emphasize with the concerns, but after paying for my upgrades just to test v3 as part of the Alpha team that sympathy is pretty limited.

I knew buying a Flex that the one thing I was certain not to experience is a static feature set - that the radio and user interface software were planned and promised to change. A lot of change too! And to ride on that train I’d have to buy upgrades.

Them’s the facts.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Steve - N4TTY

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What Steve said! I'm beginning to sound like a parrot here. :-)
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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To anyone reading this thread later, the thread title was edited to reduce the pejorative nature of its original version. Good idea that took way to long to happen.

Uncertain if comments have also received some editing and culling.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Michael Walker, Technologist

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We do encourage free speech as long as it is professional.  I edited the name a bit this morning.
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bahillen

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Flex has been more than generous with their software roll outs. They are introducing what many of us have been asking for since early on.

I have not seen a radio that you could setup a remote station so easily and I am not talking about the big guns. I have spent more on QSL card postage than I have on my radio. What have some spent on a good contest headset? When I bought my car in the fall I didn't go to the dealer in January and expect the new model. Flex Radio Systems has been more than generous. 

I have had my 6600 for just over a year now and am challenged every day with the functionality and features of operating my station. If you are interested in the latest bleeding edge capability the most costly upgrade you face will be to a 2 SCU radio and that is more than $199. Or when you upgrade to a Maestro add the upgrade to the Maestro cost when you may want the 3.0 functionality. The point is you have the choice based on what you want. 

For the community, we are indebted to Gerald and his team. His vision has changed the technology of amateur radio. If the competition was not pressed by the developments of Flex, there would not be a SDR receiver in the mainline products as SRD, in my opinion, was viewed as a low end receiver. The High end radios were $12K. Flex Team are amateur Zealots that we as a community need to support. If they loose that dedication, it will not be a good thing for Amateur Radio. Go to Dayton and talk to the team one on one; engineers, sales and support because it is better than listening to the echo chamber.

73
Bill W9JJB



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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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Beware of lame threads subjects like this one. This isn't tabloid media, and I know we are all amateurs but come on.
The cutoff date was October 1 not Sept.21. It's clear to me you posted this offensive thread subject only to stir up trouble in an attempt to get FRS to slide you into a free upgrade. Have some dignity.
(Edited)
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Bob G W1GLV

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Right on Mike.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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The best way to make a thread go away is not comment, just let it die.
Keep in mind there are some that just do not get it.
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kj4nkn

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Clearly some of you are taking this the wrong way.


If v3 was released a few months from now then no big deal. But here is the rub, when asked when v3 will be released they would not give me an answer but basically “you will only have to pay if you want the features in v3”. Not even a simple scheduled released date like say the 2nd or 3rd quarter of this year. So for all I know at this point it could be proverbial Apr 1st. Now I would expect to get ~ a year before one would need to pay for an upgrade, a very common practice.

Again, v3 in it self has nothing to do with this point trying to be made, it is the that I walk way from the conversion with FLEX that v3 could be released tomorrow and I would have to pay $199 if I wanted to update having my 6400m for less than six months.

Some may see that amount of money as petty cash. But for some people that is a sizable amount of money



.

(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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kj4nkn, You are complaing to the wrong people,,none of us can help you,,sorry.
Call Flex or open a help ticket to complain. Unless your simply trying to scold Flex publicly.

The policy that you feel you have been bitten by has been in effect for a longe time and many many customers have had the same thing happen. Nothing new here for you. And we all understand how this works. It does not matter when in the year Flex desides to make a cut off date. If they waited another few months or moved it up a few months there would always be someone feeling as you do depending when they purchased a radio.

Also so you know, Flex likely had no idea when the V3 would be released, and if they did, they would not tell you incase they are wrong. And to that, Flex has a policy not to suggest any kind of release dates untill it gets really close to time.
(Edited)
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Ken Hansen

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$199.95 represents no more than 10% of the purchase price for a 6000-series Radio ($1999.95 for the 6400 new), it is less than 3% of the current purchase price of the 6700 - I leave it to the reader to decide what is and is not a significant investment and whether or not the upgrades offered are worth the price.

A reminder, anyone that previously opted out of V2 of SSDR will get those updates as well as V3 updates by buying the V3 updates once released.
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kj4nkn

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I would like make it clear that FLEX was not rude in any way about this and do not want anyone to think they might have been. On the other hand they were unconcered & indifferent of my potentiaol feeling of getting a little short changed .

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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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Sir, please let it go. You bought the radio you wanted, at the price you were willing to pay, and it was delivered to you. No reasonable interpretation of what you have described leads to you being “shortchanged.” If a new product (3.0) comes out, and you want to buy it, then do. If not, don’t.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Flex themselves strongly recomends against buying any update unless you benefit from it. They do not want people buy something that has little value to them.
(Edited)
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Kevin

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Then again...

There are some that still think Flex has taken the wrong approach and it is alienating some users. This COMMUNITY sure does a good job of making people feel their opinion doesn't matter.

Not paying for useless (to me) features at the expense of falling behind on fixes and other, lesser features I might desire isn't a solution. Not one I think will work for FRS in the long term. There have to be better ways.

Sir, please don't discount other's concerns because you don't share them. I hope he doesn't let it go and Flex listens and looks at alternatives again.

If I didn't go from 1.x to 2.x I wouldn't have gotten pull out windows which I had wanted for a long time. Was it worth $200. No. It wasn't. And it upsets me that I paid it every time I try to pull out the last panadaptor only to find it is still stuck in the main window.

The last release for the supposedly supported 1.x versions was 2016? No more bugs? Really? Amazing. 

Don't discount other people's concerns. You don't have to support his request but don't turn him away.

Besides... it's the weekend. What better time to blow off steam?

Kev
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AB4RW

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My goodness, go buy a knob radio and see how often it gets updated, when you buy another knob radio,
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Kevin

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 You mean like this?

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Ted VE3TRQ

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Too few knobs :-)
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Jim KJ7S

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Short and succinct... Pony up or Shut up. All this useless dribble is exactly that, useless, unproductive IIWII.
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Ken Hansen

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Rather than complain about a thread you no longer care about, consider opting-out of the discussion - see below
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Michael Coslo

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That only keeps the emails from being sent to you. Once we go to the webpage the "Gimme Are stuff!!!" posts are still there in all their glory.

Then again, the freebies and whiners have in the past just convinced me to go elsewhere. I came back, but  I'm about at that exit level now. Again.  

It's called the tragedy of the commons, where a public area ends up taken over by the least common denominator. 

I would love a Slashdot style moderation system.
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Ken Hansen

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I'm 20 years on Slashdot (4 digit uid), their moderation system isn't that great - it requires a massive reader pool to work out.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Flex no longer monitors the community as they once did. It is up to us to try and keep things orderly.
And there are ways we can do this.  
Keeping in mind all the different types of people with many opinions.

Some people start a thread only to stir up the base.
Some start a thread from a stand point of lack of understanding and information.
Some start a thread out of frustration and think by doing so they can hurt Flex by airing their discontent with Flex in the community.
And some comment in threads because of all the above or to criticise those trying to help others.

But to all of you who rise above all that and really do make a difference,,please keep doing what your doing, helping...

I know of a couple community members that just hang on every word I say and spend their time correcting me, clearly upset with me trying to help others as an example.

We can either be a help to the community or a hindrance. It's up to us. I find myself saying things a little sharply that should be worded better.

I invite everyone to be a helpful member. This community offers something not found in any other group.
(Edited)
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Igor Rybin

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Do not buy updates if they are not needed. Well, I would be willing to pay; $ 199.99, if it supports the simultaneous operation of Maestro and SmartSdr, it is in this update, and not in a few years. I do not work in competitions and I do not need the work of two operators on my flex radio.
How long will my maestro rust if I want to use it only as flex control along with smart sdr?
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Michael Walker, Technologist

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Yes, in V3, you can use the Mestro and SmartSDR at the same time to listen to different slices.  

I don't think Maestro's rust! :) 
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Igor Rybin

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Why the same time to listen to different slices?  I need to rotate the maestro valkoder and see it in the Smart SDR program in one slice, or something I do not understand?

(Edited)
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HCampbell WB4IVF

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Hopefully what has been described in V3.0 is the first major step in that direction, and will be followed by V3.x updates that will allow SSDR and Maestro to “mirror” each other as has been discussed.  I agree that would be a great feature, even if implemented incrementally due to its complexity.

Also, while my Maestro "A" hasn’t rusted, it’s been collecting some dust and I have to remember to charge it monthly.  V3.x would solve those problems!  (-:

Howard
(Edited)
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Igor Rybin

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>and I have to remember to charge it monthly.
Oh! But I definitely didn’t do this for a long time, thanks for reminding me!
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K9SO

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My concern is that they're calling it SmartSDR v3 and that implies (rightly or wrongly) that v2 is obsolete. Once v2 came out the updates to v1 stopped coming. Typical of most software. You really feel like you have to upgrade. 

 I would feel much more comfortable if they would call it "SmartShare v1.0" or something that didn't imply the need to upgrade from 2.0.

Fred
K9SO
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Be careful about using the word absolete. Even V1 is not obsolete, it continues to perform well for those that did not upgrade, nothing has changed with the radio.

One thing about Buying a Flex, you have to know it will keep evolving, changing, updating four or five times a year, it is amazing how many people that seems to bother.
V2 may become feature frozen, but if any critical bugs are discovered, there will alway be updates to fix them.
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Ted VE3TRQ

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“V2 may become feature frozen, but if any critical bugs are discovered, there will alway be updates to fix them.”

I doubt accuracy of that statement above, Bill. There was _one_ update to v1 after v2 was released - I expect no more. The same is likely to be the case with v2 - once the initial bug fix is released (incorporating the fixes in v3), I doubt there will be another v2 bug fix release unless something _really_ serious surfaces that breaks v2 (and we have not seen that yet!). If that happens once v3 has been out for a while, you will likely only see that fix in v3 (especially if v4 is imminent). Maybe a bit pessimistic, but software development cycles dictate that’s the way it will work.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Ted, I understand you questioning Gerald's statments.

Serious Bugs and defects have always been attended to Ted.
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K9SO

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Bill, if you re-read what I said, I think that the fact that they're calling it SmartSDR v3 IMPLIES an obsolescence. It's true of almost every other piece of software I own. Even though the the older versions continue to work well, eventually the support diminishes or goes away (for those other companies). 

I know that's not true in this case, but if they simply changed the name of the new software (like a new "radio model"), maybe it would remove some of the pressures and cost complaints of an upgrade being felt by some. 

It is indeed an advantage of a FlexRadio that you can get a "new radio" with new features for just $200. That's a terrific thing that no one else can offer and I for one will jump on the v3 bandwagon.

But the message is lost when you call it a new revision of the software.

Fred
K9SO
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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I would feel much more comfortable if they would call it "SmartShare v1.0" or something that didn't imply the need to upgrade from 2.0.
So now there is a debate regarding the naming of the software for the product line. I think you are a few years too late. You or I don't get a vote, it's done and over, get over it. I'm sure it made competitor more uncomfortable, the name certainly does imply that it's "Smart", perhaps smarter than other SDRs. Don't mean to be sarcastic but what's next, a discussion on the color of the box and how it might be offensive or uncomfortable to some people? Or, even the box shape, it's so problematic because it makes us square people feel like were being made fun of.

(Edited)
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Kevin

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Ya. Right. Don't mean to be sarcastic but... 

"If you have questions to ask or feedback to give, you've come to the right place."
"And for those who provide the best and consistent answers, you can achieve FlexRadio Elmer status!"

And this is the best answer we can expect from a FlexRadio Elmer?

Now that's sarcastic.
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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I've assisted when I feel I have something to offer to help others. On the other hand I do have opinions and sometimes when I see something that doesn't sit right with me, or is beyond common sense, I voice my opinion. Again, my opinion and not FRS. Oh yes, was being quite sarcastic and the get over it was meant to get to the point but yes I can see it was over aggressive, so I take back saying" get over it".
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Mike,,get over it...Lol
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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Now I'm going to have to pay The Eagles some royalties for using Get Over It. Classic Joe Walsh slide guitar on that tune, it was the first song Don Henley and Glenn Frey wrote together when they reunited for Hell Freezes Over.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Being a ham, it would be funny to see Joe Walsh comment here about that...
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Igor Rybin

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No, until you make use of Maestro with SmartSdr at the same time, it makes no sense to switch to V3.
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Rocinante

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As a new 6400 owner, I see that V3 also makes it possible to simultaneously run SDR on my laptop and my iPad.  Seems like an opportunity for some interesting multi-screen scenarios, will learn more as time passes and I experiment with it.
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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As a 6700 owner I find it quite nice to be able to leave my shack computer running SmartSDR and then open up either a laptop or Maestro elsewhere on the LAN. I use the Maestro nightly on and off throughout the night into the morning.

Unfortunately since I moved out to the country 15 months ago, the only ISP available uses double NAT and I am unable to use SmartLink. I have inquired here and there seems to be no solution for this.
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Ted VE3TRQ

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Yup - back to the tried and true VPN, Mike :-) Still works great with DynDNS set up on your router. There is an ongoing conversation about ZeroTier that may just alleviate these kinds of connection issues - bridges, too.