Pure signal advance

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Pure signal now has the ability to auto set. Yes any value watt out. automatically. One of the concerns of flex I believe was this function . It made it difficult to provide this event to everyone because to use it you were constantly re adjusting.

With this now proven acceptable this major barrier was removed.

Again hoping that flex re consider this adaptation.
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np2g

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Posted 4 years ago

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np2g

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Since flex is very close to what they promised possibly now is the time to ask flex to re evaluate and provide pure signal. Not just a promise but to do it.

The reasons below transcend any competition or the like. It is just better for all of us

IMD. Well below any radio.
Absolute clear audio.
No intervention at any. power level
Press Auto and go straight line. functionality.
All your power placed in the band pass.
Amplifiers when sampled also a straight line solution
Absolutely reduces interference .

We are the caretakers of our bands why not reduce the interference. Why not make our transmitters a good neighbor.

There really has been a game changer in implementation. Auto functionality is today. This really means that any ham that can select the auto button can have the absolute best cleanest. signal on the band .

I am not asking or inferring for anyone to go to another radio
Remote is here. So why don't we step up and voice a yes to wanting it.

Just don't let it be me. Add your yes . Help the bands. Help yourself .
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Add it to the END of the list, why not?

Switch gears?  Nah. .. actually... No Way!

Really the way of harping on this, and almost chiding FRS for not having a point-release for a pet project on YOUR rather than their timeframe is not helping your cause.

It is perhaps a discussion you might have with FRS directly, but repeatedly making limited interest appear as widespread by ever couple weeks starting a new demanding thread isn't in the amateur spirit.

If FRS never implements Pure Signal, if FRS implements it a some future release, if they provide a place for someone else to make a SmartSDR plug-in, or if the rush a point release to please your demands, it doesn't make very much difference to me.

It is an interesting development, but not one that would move me off of my FRS Flex-6x00 radios.

Putting your pet project ahead an pushing out SmartSDR 2.0 as a result - basically FRS breaking their commitment just to please you - just isn't likely to happen.  They might add it in, but they aren't going to push off commitments to divert resources.

Would be useful to read more on the developments, links appreciated.  Your post seems to be leading edge in searchable references. 

But be absolutely clear being interested is in no way support for a personal crusade to implement.  Like I said it doesn't much matter, specially in comparison to the rich feature set already road mapped.

73

Steve

K9ZW


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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@NP2G

You have been beating on the drum of Adaptive Pre-Distortion (APD) for quite some time now.


Full WAN Remote is NOT here yet.  It will not be here until V2.0 Software.

Full WAN Remote is far more important to far more people than APD, particularly since so few people are even aware of ADP, let alone wanting Flex to divert development resources to it...

You just need to look at the huge buzz that was generated for Flex by the release of the Limited LAN Remote feature and the Myriad of private efforts to simulate WAN Remote via VPN until Flex finishes WAN Remote.  You do not see anything like that sort of buzz or interest being generated by APD...

At the Visalia DX Convention.. All eyes were on the Remote Ham Booth, the KX0 Remote head and the Flex LAN Remote.   Even the Japanese were touting different forms of kludged WAN Remote...

Nobody was even talking about or showing any interest in APD.. In fact the only APD presentation I have seen in the Past Year was Warren's at Friedrichshafen.

if you looked at the recent QST, you will see that Flex already produces a pretty clean signal compared to the rest of the market.. so APD will be just a fine polishing on top of a more than acceptable product. 

I would also suggest that there are many other much more important improvements such as improving contest work flow by putting spots and worked spots onto the waterfall (my personal second most important desire after Remote WAN) that clearly will generate far more sales for Flex than an esoteric improvement like APD which few people understand or want.  

Clearly Flex needs to finish the very popular Remote LAN before they even consider diverting resources to other less popular projects...
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np2g

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Thank you for your comment.
Howard in their own words they are very close. .
Since I have the ability to use this pure signal each and every day. It impacts the bands so significantly. For good. Everyone should now be asking. This pure signal is all over the world
Making a better band neighbor

And this again is not a bait and switch effort.

Why can't we have a great clean signal. Why can't all of us benefit from using this process .

Our transmitter has not been touched in electrical time. forever.
No one should corner clean imd transmissions

And if we do not keep asking. When or could becomes never.
The last time I asked. The main reason was that pure signal was hard to user implement. Well it isn,t any more.
I feel it is time for anyone who for the multiple reasons and more that have been listed speak up and voice yes. .
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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The Last Time you asked the answer was the same as now... It was not that it was difficult   ....it will happen but not before a heck of a lot of other much more desirable and marketable features happen first...

BTW..  I suspect that the only ones who really give a damn about it are the audiophiles and the spectral environmentalists.. sort of a subset of our California Tree Hugger population...  Personally I would love to play with APD but then I am a born again tinkerer....

A significant number of contesters I know would rather splatter all over so as to drown out the competition....
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np2g

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I never thought of being a spectral guy. And I would try to never splatter intentionally
I know it does absolutely everything I listed. And this is a good thing .
My difference now is I am asking others to step up. .

and up to yesterday it was difficult to implement auto has changed that for everyone. This was a serious consideration for flex. And now this is gone.
.
Howard if you call pressing the auto button tinker.ing. That now is how easy it is.

And flex can implement this now
(Edited)
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Lee, Elmer

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Why do you make it sound like Flex is against pre-distortion?  Clearly they are not.  The radio's hardware was designed with pre-distortion in mind.  

Warren started playing around with the concept of pre-distortion back in 2006. Why did it take until 2014 to realize a viable system and until 2015 to realize a system that is automatic?  Is his system the best system?  Does his system effect or degrade other system variables or other modes?  Does it port readily to the Flex hardware given the vast difference in design approach between the radios?  Clearly this proposition took 9 years to solve in the PSDR world and it required hacking the radio, so why does it need to be solved in 10 minutes in the Flex world?  Remember PSDR which was originally written by Flex has been around for more than a decade.  It's as you like to say very very mature.  This means not much is changing in the software and fringe things like pre-distortion can be addressed.  

SSDR has been around for only a couple years.  It is in its rapid growth phase of development and many much more basic things like the API's and waveform and networking which will have a much more dramatic effect on future development needs to be addressed before pre-distortion.  If one wants the radio to blossom in the future one needs to consider the infrastructure upon which the blossom will be built today.  One does not want to make ill considered decisions.   My guess is pre-distortion will be introduced when the time is judged to be right given the state of the art and the state of program development.  In the mean time the audio chain in the Flex is already very clean and quite usuable.  I'm very pleased with the state of development of SSDR.  It's performance has improved dramatically in the year I've been involved with it.  

73  W9OY
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np2g

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Again I am not. Intimating flex position

I am asking everyone to also ask for it to be implemented the sooner the better ,
Please. I already have pre distortion. It is fantastic. It does exactly what I have listed. And now with auto it makes it absolutely a piece of cake to use.

it was just fine manual. But auto it,s sweet.

And this auto concern was. One of flexes concerns.
If you believe remote is absolutely important. This implementation effects us all
I went from reading about pre distortion. How it actually functions and what it was suppose to do to actually implementing it. And realizing ALL the benefits. For me I have it for all of flex owners it will be as fantastic as what I have found using it.

Please everyone who wants to reduce splatter or who wants a cleaner audio or who wants their transmitter to place more power in their pass band please ask or say yes .
(Edited)
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Ed,
I added a "like" and agree this is a feature we all (or at least most) want to have at some point.   I don't think we can say remote is here yet though.  

LAN remote - yes but not WAN remote.  

Many folks are waiting for the WAN Remote coming in V2.0.   And although I'm probably not going to use the WAN Remote feature, it's a feature many want and have prioritized ahead of other features.

So I suspect the FRS version of "pure signal" will eventually be realized, but it may be a while still.  And even at that, there are many other ideas and enhancements that will be just was important to the owners and FRS. 

I think as more folks get SDRs and can more easily see the benefits of a clean signal on the panadapter it will become a highly desirable attribute.   Also the various reviewers are beginning to talk more about it as well.   So pure signal will come  to the 6000, its just a matter of time.  I'm glad to know that FRS has the hooks in place on the 6000 series.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com




 
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Lee, Elmer

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Do you still have to go inside and hack up your radio rerouting signal paths and build a bunch of relay boxes and couplers and kludged up control paths to get pure signal to work?  I think there are like 30 Anan owners using this, mostly the audiophile crowd and you make it sound universal in the Anan community.   30 guys care taking the bands with your hacked up radios.  Quite noble.  Does the hack require 6 ms relays in order to not mess up QSK?  Oh that's right QSK isn't all that great in the Anan is it.  Perhaps we'll wait for a solution that takes into account all the performance aspects of the radio instead of just the audiophile crowd.  I must admit I am a fan of predistortion just not as an afterthought 

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/official-position-on-adaptive-predistortion 

73  W9OY
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np2g

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In what I am using. No. It is as easy as press the auto button and go for it.
Every hdsdr user has the same opportunity.with a radio that supports it.

If flex implements it. Every flex user has this ability.
I have no intentions of commenting on anan unless forced I am using pure signal. And asking flex makes it available to flex users

If you wish you can contact me directly and I will answer any of your anan. questions if I can.
By the way there are a lot more than that 30. out there using pure signal
It is world wide acceptable .
This is a win win. For everyone.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Ok so what you are saying, I buy an Anan and without removing the lid I just press a button and It's all done?
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K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

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With the new current production ANAN units, YES.

Built in sampling for 100w or less, and a simple BNC connection to a rear input if you want to use an external coupler after your linear amp.

I am using the internal feedback, even when running an 8877 at legal limit, and the results are outstanding. 50db or so.

All I do is enable the PS option and start transmitting. Full auto calibrate. That simple.

I have been getting numerous unsolicited comments from DX stations regarding the cleanliness of my signal and how good it looks on their panadapters or waterfalls. On top of the excellent audio reports. This from some highly respected and well known DX stations, to whom money is no object, and whom own all the latest high end gear. And some were quick to tell me of their overall disappointment with their Flex 6000s, yet after seeing and hearing the ANAN, they are giving it a close look.

The only downside is now I regularly get idiots coming within 2-3 KHz of my frequency , even after running a frequency for an hour prior. At which time I temporarily disable PS and they realize I'm there real quick.

As to the CW ops, the CW performance has been greatly improved in recent firmware.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. Or at least monitored someone using it. It is really that good.

Yes, I still have my 6500. I won't knock it, but it is hard to switch back at this point.

Eric
K2CB
(Edited)
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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On the Anan 200D I installed a directional coupler on the output of my Acom 2000A amp. There is a -43 dB port on the coupler. I add another 20 dB of external attenuation then connect that padded signal into the Bypass port on the back of the radio.

With the new beta software NP2G is referring to, you choose auto attenuation in the linearity tab. Now while you are transmitting it will automatically adjust the internal attenuation to provide a -21 dBm signal into the ADC. It is pretty simple now.

The bigger picture is this. As others mentioned, the current state of the 6000 series has a TX IMD that is well within acceptable limits. The number of Flex radios out in the wild compared to overall number of HF radios on the air is extremely low. The impact on the bands from radios running APD is equivalent to a cup of fresh drinking water thrown into the ocean. Drinking from the ocean is still going to be very salty!

I'd rather be listening next to a Flex as it is today than a TS-520 with his processor on. There are a LOT more dirtier radios out there.

Dave, wo2x


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np2g

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Absolutely true. Let's make it better. We benefit. It's a no brainier.
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Joe, KQ1Q

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np2g"We are the caretakers of our bands why not reduce the interference. Why not make our transmitters a good neighbor...It impacts the bands so significantly."

I just had a QSO with an Anan-200D with PureSignal a few minutes ago. His signal looked really great -- band edges were like a knife edge. However the Elecraft K3 and Kenwood TS-990 on the QSO *also* had good waterfall patterns. Using the incredible FFT resolution of the Flex 6300 display, if I magnified it enough the Anan looked cosmetically a little better, but the only people who could see that would be other SDR users with high-res displays. 

Whether Flex implements ADP in two months vs twelve months would have virtually no difference on the bands. Most FlexRadios I see have pretty clean signals as is. The Flex 6000 user base is a small % of HF operators. So you are talking about a subset of a subset: The Flex 6000 users (as a % of total HF operators) who don't have clean signals and who would be improved by ADP. It is a further subdivided by temporal subset, since Flex will ultimately do this, so the difference months vs maybe a year or so. That is truly microscopic against overall HF volume, and definitely would not "impact the bands significantly". Given limited development resources and a higher priority list of work items I don't see a rational reason to drop something else for an early ADP implementation.


(Edited)
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Bob Wright, N7ZO

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Joe, I concur with your on-the-air experience and your conclusion "Given limited development resources and a higher priority list of work items I don't see a rational reason to drop something else for an early ADP implementation."

NP2G, I like the idea of improved transmit distortion too, but there is a long list of other features and capabilities I would rather see first.  But, there is nothing wrong with remaining enthusiastic about this.  :-)

73, Bob, N7ZO
(Edited)
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np2g

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Thank you for your reply.
If only the straight line transmissions was the only benefit it would be great. However there are far far more advantages. Benefits. Yes far more. I listed a few but this opportunity is just great for our ham radio play
We have sdr radios. They just arn't. Just as good they are state of the mind.
Look at all the benefits. For me it is a double yes.
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Rick Hadley - W0FG

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I suppose ADP would be a nice feature, but I'd never notice the difference.  I've made 3100 logged QSOs with the 6500 in the 15 months I've owned it.  Maybe 31 of those were on SSB, and perhaps 100 on digital modes.  All of the rest were CW.  WAN remote is a big deal to me, as I'd love to be able to really use the home station when we're travelling.
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Walt - KZ1F

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3100 in 15 months? Holy Moly!!! I have maybe 1/3. One of the last times I spoke to Amir he had worked 10,000 in a month. I guess folks much prefer to talk to Israel than Connecticut.
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N7AIG

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I'm curious about whether or not adaptive predistortion can also clean up the distance spurs several hundred kHz away, as reported by SM5BSZ for the Flex-1500 here:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCQQFjAB...

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N7AIG

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... I also have the impression that splatter caused by ALC action is a worse offender than FCC compliant, but slightly nonlinear, amplifiers. Nicht wahr?
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Looks like not much has Changed, Pure signal is still down the list of wants for a lot of Flex owners. As Dave and others pointed out the Flex is really very clean at this time. Oh by the way, have you seen an Anan without pure signal,,not so pretty, good thing they are using it. But this all seems rather boring and old. I got a better idea, why don't you guys bug the hell out of all the other radio makers who will likely never ever see pure signal. As I know of Flex is the only one who has said this is in the plans. ( Pure signal now has the ability to auto set. Yes any value watt out. automatically. One of the concerns of flex I believe was this function . ) Ed I must have missed that reply from Flex, do you have a reference to who at Flex made that comment?
Photo of K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

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Clean, but not VERY clean. Compared to what?

My TS990 and IC7800 with 50v PAs are VERY clean. Much cleaner, in fact, that stations I regularly converse with comment right away about my signal being not as clean, stating "you must be on the FLEX!" when I am on fact using the Flex 6500.

However, FWIW, the Flex is cleaner than my IC9100. Now that is a real dog as far as IMD is concerned.

Eric
K2CB
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Sorry Ed

But your persistent harping about ADP seems to have brought out a pretty negative reaction from this group. While I would love to be able to tinker with ADP I have to join the majority in saying that there are so many more important priorities that need to be addressed before ADP.

Bill pointed out correctly that Flex is the only manufacturer to have publicly stated that they will implement,ADP in the near future.

So perhaps you really need to expend all that positive energy working on the real major splatter offenders such as Kenwood, Yaesu and Icom... Oh...you can't can you? They don't listen to their American Customers do they?
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np2g

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Actually I'm talking with elecraft.
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Lee, Elmer

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OMG  I see ANAN has instituted a new PA board for their radio which completely changes the pure signal path so now your going to have radios with different hookups.  This is going to get totally confusing for those Anan boys   Yes I would call that move a state of mind.... INSANE!!!

73  W9OY
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Lee, yup they will be spending lots of money soon to try and bring the Anan up to 3rd generation SDR. The shoe is soon to drop.
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np2g

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Bill that makes it 5 th generation. But who is counting.
This is not about anan. The ability to have pure signal is universal.

It is about all the benefits that you get. Not have. Get.
Pure signal is extremely documented. So any yes any manufacturer could look at that road map and make their own version with minimal effort
It's not about picking one over the other.
This is an absolute win win. It transcends any difference it allows for better radio.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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It is second generation technology,  a Flex 5000. Time to let this go, nothing will be gained here. As you know it is in the plans. Everyone should understand that by now. But were did you see a comment from Flex they say they have concerns about it, could you show that to me? And what about going after the other companies that have not even commented on getting it?
(Edited)
Photo of K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

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Keep drinking your Kool-Aid, folks!

As I own both ANAN and FLEX radios, after following both camps for some time now, I have come to the following conclusion:

Flex boys (for the most part) are appliance operators.

ANAN boys are old school hams that have a true understanding of how and why things work.

Just look at the level of posts and questions in both camps (aka forums, YahooGroups, Communities, etc.), and it will be quite evident real quick.

Eric
K2CB
(Edited)
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Lee, Elmer

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My impression is Anan boys like to pretend they know how things work but they are also just followers.  As far as I know Warren is the only one left coding PSDR and things like CU-SDR are little more than frameworks also being coded by just one guy.  There are a couple dozen smart guys and a whole bunch who are not real clear but like to broadcast vociferously about what they sorta know.  You know, the crowd who think if they just say it loud enough it will become true.

When I needed help with my Anan the Anan brainiacs especially on the KC9XG group were clueless and just spewed a bunch of mythology and nonsense.  Mukesh helped me, because he actually does know what is going on, otherwise the rest were worse than useless because they kept sending me in the wrong direction

73  W9OY
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Umm, I wounder who is drinking Cool-aid,,this is really funny, I love when they bring this stuff up as if it will save ham radio, most entertaining.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Ed says he is trying not to make this an Anan Vs Flex thing, although  Flex is all he talks about.  Interesting that you just did with your comment. I think what you mean if I understand you is the Flex is far more refined.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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I think Eric is over generalizing and his claim that Flex users are appliance operators illogical and only intended to be provocative - remember he personally has both camps of radios which shouldn't be possible if he was only "an appliance operator."

The ANAN is cool from the point it is like the first kit computer my buddies built back in 1970's in the dorm at the Milwaukee School of Engineering. 

Damn exciting and a lot of fun if the development and the build of a "PC" (the term was coined later) was what captured your interest, but if you actually needed to get your course work done you still used the mainframe.

Actually we used both for both purposes - experimenting and production work.

Legitimately the was the two projects work does define what level of "tinkering" is possible: 

The hpSDR/ANAN is by definition as open source and collaborative as possible. Using the work in the best possible way it is "a tinker's" radio.

FRS Signature series is not a open project, period.  The hooks are basically as far under the hood as you get without a special agreement.  And nobody ever promised anything more, ever. 

Hobbyists Roll-Your-Own is going to be different than a commercial product.

Neither define the owner/operator in any way.  Not one bit.

And both are valued contributions to the Amateur Radio community.

Slanging one or other for the characteristics that define them, and then layering on an unsubstantiated set of derogatory attributes about their users is just plainly wrong.

However Eric's point does have a clear observation that it is much more difficult to setup and run a ANAN without a willingness to dive under the hood compared to the FRS product.  Only makes sense.

In the end a QSO is a QSO is a QSO and if the radio excites you as well as excites the ether, then it is a success.

73

Steve

K9ZW

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Lee, Elmer

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How is it more difficult?  I had trouble with my Anan 10 because someone had hosed up the IP address, but my 100D was not harder than my 6300 as far as setup.  I down loaded the software, configured it like I did for my old F5K, plugged in the ether net, turned on the radio, turned on PSDR and that was that.  It did not require getting under the hood.  Now Anan is making a new PA board because the original PA board didn't have the correct hardware for pure signal, ie correcting short shortsightedness.  I think this belies the "mystique" Anan owners like to portend,  like they are a bunch of wooley wild-eyed experimenters pushing the boundaries of ham radio.  HPSDR is as effectively "closed" as Flex.  There is a promise of writing code under GPL, but no one is writing code.  I've seen a couple jokers think they were going to get all tuned up in C and go write some code but that invariably fizzles out in about 3 days after the immensity of the task reveals itself.  

In fact Flex is pretty open.  It has published several API's so you can develop to your heart's content.  The proof is SmartCAT, DAX, K5FR's DDUTIL, W2RF's SDR-Bridge AA3RK's FRStack  and the K9DUR programs.  I use all of these to enhance my radios capability.  These are tightly integrated and work perfectly.  Anan on the other hand has nothing like the tightly integrated I/O clients called DAX or SmartCAT.  You have to buy a kludged up third party piece of software from 10 years ago for something like DAX.  It doesn't have any native way to get serial in or out.  You have to install some other third party software.  You have to play around configuring the third party software and some settings in PSDR  work and some don't.  There is no way to get for example 2 channels of wideband I/Q out of the radio so I can drive 2 CW skimmers.  This is BUILT IN to the Flex.  In fact Flex through SDR-Bridge will accommodate 4 channels of skimmer.    I use SmartCAT as my serial port program for my Anan because it works better and is more stable than com0com and the others.  The Flex is a much better contest radio in terms of integration compared to the Anan due to its tight client integration and the integration is because Flex published the API's and encouraged developers to develop.  The contest interface I have integrated just works and never crashes.  Neither does the DX configuration I use exhibit any installability.   So if you think your a "real ham" because you spend your time dealing with buggy software, I'm not sure you are clear on what "real ham" means.  I do think K5FR W2RF AA3RK and K9DUR among others are "real hams" because they didn't just talk about it, but be effectively be eliminated from doing it because of the complexity involved, they instead set up in the Flex sandbox and actually created useful products for the rest of us.  I very much appreciate that.

73  W9OY 
(Edited)
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np2g

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Thank you all for your comments
Some are nasty. And incorrect. It is about pure signal. A very good thing. If you do not understand the benefits please research it
We Reading some ham retort. I change it to most hams realize that we are the. Keepers of the frequencies.

Technology does not stand still. And if it is beneficial. And in the process helps everyone this is a good thing.
Since I use it. It does everything I have listed. And some good things that I have not listed

.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I am still looking around for Flex statement about concerns on Pure signal. Were did you see that?
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Yes I read that,,but Ed said that Flex has concerns about introducing pure signal. I"m still waiting for him to show me were Flex said that.
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Walt - KZ1F

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I am not convinced many would consider me a 'fair and impartial judge' but, for the most part, I believe I am. Eric has a very good point. Yes, there was an immediate and visceral reaction. This is much that same as 50 years ago when you had hams doing point to point wiring and coil windings for their receviers, transmitters and linears and looked down their noise at those 'pretender' hams assembling kits delivered by Heathkit. Those that do that, likely the same ones that subscribe to QEX, are certainly fewer in number than early days but still feel themselves superior hams in they actually know how what a Colpitts oscillator is and how to make one by hand. To be sure, Eric is 98% accurate, most of us buy our radios from Kenwood, Yaesu, Icom, Elecraft, and now Flex, would not have a clue how to fix it if it broke. Buy their computers from Dell and equally would not have a clue how to write a software program or fix it if it broke. The reality of it is, most hams today are appliance operators. Frankly we could get into the level of difficulty in obtaining an Amateur Radio license. I mean no-code...c'mon, that is, seems to me, only a little more difficult than obtaining a class D CB license. Do they still have class D CB licenses? Do they still have CB or is it all now Family Radio and that's why there are AMer in the bottom portion of 10m. For the Flex people who were just called appliance operators, ask the Anan folk how many lines of code of theirs was committed to the HPSDR source tree.
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Lee, Elmer

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I think it's time to call a spade a spade.  This thread has nothing to do with pure signal, absolutely nothing.  I haven't learned one thing about pre-distortion since the discussion started.  It has to do with a passive aggressive manipulation of this group by NP2G in the disguise of being a legitimate topic.  It's basically his version of playing with himself and I for one find it monumentally boring.  I like discussion, even not terribly productive discussion but I'm not really interested in being manipulated under the guise of discussion

73  W9OY
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Lee is right, Flex has already answered Ed's IDEA with a positive reply. There seems to be more going on here. I think this community has treated Ed very well considering. What would happen if some of us did the same were the Anan folks hang out as they share the same interest? I for one welcome anyone to talk about things we can improve and work on for the Flex. But there are some who from past postings have a clear agenda.
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Lee, Elmer

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Walt what have you learned about pure signal from this discussion?  That's not rhetorical.  I would like to hear precisely what you have learned?  If Ed is trying to be a light on this subject, one would think pure signal would be much better illuminated.  Instead what I feel is heat.  So what that tells me: this is not about knowledge but manipulation.  It seems like the only one who is bugged by Flexes pre-distortion time table doesn't even have a dog in the hunt.  What's wrong with this picture?

73  W9OY
(Edited)
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Lee, Elmer

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I'm not sure why this automated thing is even considered a breakrhrough. Flex did this on the receive side for the system back in 2009

http://w9oy-sdr.blogspot.com/2009/05/...

73. W9OY
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Walt - KZ1F

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I suspect Ed is a big boy so he is quite capable of defending himself. As for dog in the hunt, I believe Ed still owns a Flex so, yeah, he does have a 'dog in the hunt'.

I don't know why you are asking me what I know about pure signal. " this is not about knowledge but manipulation" How about neither. Ed made a suggestion, where this is the second one I guess he simply updated his old one. I believe the rest was primarily the IHeartFlex folks telling Ed to sit down and shut up. Why am I doing commentary? Because someone needs to be the adult in the room Lee, and I don't see anyone else stepping up.

This could have and should have been a one post idea.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Ed said maybe one day he will come back to flex, only after some things were done as he wants. At the end of the thred someone asked about changes done in the Anan for pure signal. I don know the answer, I was just wondering if you knew, but maybe not, He asked some good questions. Perhaps he should go to their user group to find out.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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The main reason that there seems to be an visceral reaction on the community is not about the merits of pure signal, almost every one on the community like the idea. It is because this has been around the circle many times posted by the same person as if he thinks he is making a difference.
Flex has made a statement on this saying it is planed. so why does it keep coming up?
How about all the other company's who have never commented on it at all, why nothing said about them? Oh, I know this is just a Flex thing, a very slick way of bashing Flex. One thing for sure everyone pays very close attention to Flex and this community. The Anan folks are reading here every day to see what is going on. I keep getting an email from an Anan fan boy with a link to the community called an update, he must have a mailing list so everyone stays informed about Flex every move and everything writen here. So it is clear that Flex is the big game changer everyone watches.

It is true Walt. This is the area our hobby has really changed. Me for example. I do not even fully understand how everything works under the lid of the Fex Radio. I do not have the skills to take my Flex apart and fix all the components on the board. And I have never learned how to wright a program, or code.
I suppose to some then I should not be in this hobby because of my short comings in these area's.
But the technology is vastly different from Heath Kit days. I would think there are very few Flex customers that would consider repairing there Flex.
Using the name appliance operators seems to be a bad thing, but that is the state of this hobby for most. Here is a question. Lets just say, the worst thing to happen, Flex does not ever implement pure signal, what would happen, would lots sell there radio because of it, or would they keep them because they still love what it does best?
For Icom, Yeasu, Kenwood, and all the rest, I have not heard a fallout with customers saying they will sell their radios because none of those company's have not commented at all on it.

Yes I expect a few here to go over any comments I made here to find fault and debate them, I am just not into that. These are just my thoughts, time for me to move on to more important things, hey maybe radio time. what a novel idea.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Just speaking for myself Bill, I am not sure what your point is. I don't believe anyone has disagreed with you at all.
"Why does it keep coming up?" I think Ed was merely pointing out Anan has auto set now. Does FRS know that, presumably now they do. Does FRS care? I have no clue.

"Oh, I know this is just a Flex thing, a very slick way of bashing Flex". I guess I am just not sufficiently paranoid to detect that as a slight.

"One thing for sure everyone pays very close attention to Flex and this community".
I suspect there are two camps, those that have Flex and those that troll here for the sheer comedic value. Watching the IHeartFlex folks defend their girl friend, while being incredibly sad, is also immensely humorous. For those that defensive over their radio, perhaps you should not engage with those that aren't members of the bubble.

"So it is clear that Flex is the big game changer everyone watches".
Only to the .14% (point 1 4 percent .0014) of the Amateur Radio community that own one.

"I suppose to some then I should not be in this hobby because of my short comings".
I believe you are the first person to suggest that.

"the name appliance operators seems to be a bad thing".
I used to adjust my own car's engine valves, tweak the timing, change the plugs, replace the oil and oil pan gasket. Now I get in a car and push a button. I don't slaughter my own animals for food. I've long since sold my HW-101, AR-1500a, retired my Heath uMatic Keyer. My Elecraft KAT-500 is a fraction of the size of my Heath Deluxe Antenna Tumer. We are mostly all slaves to the consumer marketplace. This is why HeathKit went out of business. I suspect the others, Flexers or not, have similar experiences.

"For Icom, Yeasu, Kenwood, and all the rest, I have not heard a fallout with customers saying they will sell their radios because none of those company's have not commented at all on it."
I suspect that is because they aren't so anal about what their radio doesn't have. But having said that, Kenwood, et al, owners routinely upgrade their radios to get more features and better performance. Sometimes they keep the old one, sometimes they sell the old one.

In closing, people should just take a breath.
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Walt you never disapoint, I wrote someone a little while ago telling them wait a while. Walt will bring out every detail in my post one by one, now I wish I had money on it. too funny
As a side, I am an Flex fan boy and  and make no apologies for that, I see nothing wrong with saying what I like, and I care less who likes it.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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That's what the women have told me Bill.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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LOL @ Walt
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N7AIG

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I'd like to hear more technical details: what was the issue about changing levels, and what is new about the automatic corrections? What kinds of things need to be designed into the radio to facilitate better APD? (from the discussion it sounds like the HPSDR guys did a redesign to better accommodate APD?) Please, fill us in!
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I have asked Ed a question and he has not answered me,,I hope he will answer this one. But maybe Lee can, he should know all about this. Or Walt?
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np2g

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I am trying very very. Hard not to participate in name calling. Or attacks or personal agendas or the like
All I have done is bring awareness to a great function. And as not to be forgotten

I have also tried to not answer obvious. At least obvious to me questions regarding pure signal. .
It would be far more educational for a individual to read more about it so they. Can make an educated presumption. The yes it works and works auto. And can work with flex is all there is

I did preface this conversation with a short list of some. Not all of the benefits.
It wasn't a comparison nor a just fine or a conflict. It gave you some of the benefits. Actual benefits from. Someone who now uses this system. And I have used it on other pieces of hardware.
And more and more of us will be able to hear see talk with people presently running it .

So to all a simple yes it can be beneficial. And please remember flex when you have time.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Ok Ed as I thought, it was just you thinking Flex had some kind of concerns about doing it, there never was a comment about having any concerns on their part. you did bring this Awareness to the community before and Flex answered you with a most positive response and fully explained what needed to be done first, we all got that. So we are all aware now, now lets just let Flex Radio do what is best, even if we don't all agree with it.

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