Pre-adaptive distortion

  • 4
  • Question
  • Updated 2 years ago
  • Answered
Any news on when Flex might implement this?  Maybe in the new 6400/6600 rigs?
Photo of K4ELO

K4ELO

  • 97 Posts
  • 18 Reply Likes

Posted 3 years ago

  • 4
Photo of Gerald - K5SDR

Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

  • 830 Posts
  • 1515 Reply Likes
Algorithms are complete but coding has not come up in the priority list yet.  No commitment on when.
Photo of EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

  • 1784 Posts
  • 547 Reply Likes
Thanks for the reply. I am actually surprise this has not made it closer to the top of the list. The new amp benefits from this feature, the new SPE Expert amp has a dedicated pre-distortion input.... only Anan has this feature, Icom,Yaesu, Kenwood, etc... are not even close.... It is definitely a cool feature to set the signature series apart. 

About a year ago you made the point about the benefits of a cleaner signal versus an extra bit of power, making a compelling point about the Signature series not always reaching 100w, and that it was not as important as a clean signal. You convinced me.

It would seem that pre-distortion is in line with the idea of making the Signature series the cleanest radios on the air.
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9199 Posts
  • 3559 Reply Likes
Salvador - We have a lot of new features in the works in addition to adaptive pre-distortion.  We will continue to work on adaptive pre-distortion and will release the feature when it performs up to our high standards.  Thanks for your continued interest.
Photo of EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

  • 1784 Posts
  • 547 Reply Likes
Can't wait. :)
Photo of Zack Schindler - N8FNR

Zack Schindler - N8FNR

  • 152 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
So what does adaptive pre-distortion do and why would I want it? BTW I have a 6400 on order and have a KPA500 in the shack. What would adaptive pre-distortion give me what that combo?
Photo of K4ELO

K4ELO

  • 97 Posts
  • 18 Reply Likes
Zack - I have an Anan 100 using pre-distortion and I can tell you from scope measurements that it reduces 3rd order IM distortion from the typical 30 to 35 db to 50 to 55 db. makes a very clean signal.
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 4015 Posts
  • 975 Reply Likes
How ever, anyone hearing you with a S10 signal will see a very clean signal. It;s only when they see you at 20 and over, the IMD will show.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
That is totally not true.  You will see the IMD on anything above a S8 for sure
(Edited)
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 4015 Posts
  • 975 Reply Likes
I have seen many Flexes at S9 with almost perfect IMD, nothing showing.
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9199 Posts
  • 3559 Reply Likes
Our PAs have good IMD and phase noise characteristics.
(Edited)
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
I was just having a QSO with a guy who had a 6600 and it was not as clean as it can be without pure signal.  It had IMD..
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
I have seen the Flex amp in action with a few testers and it was not very good.
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9199 Posts
  • 3559 Reply Likes
He could have been driving his audio into distortion if it was not set correctly.  
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
If that is indeed the case then maybe Flex should educate their testers on how to test their products and not send a bad message to the HAM community.  Now with pure signal, flex is not the only amp manufacture so, having pure signal would be a BIG benefit.  I know MANY hams that would dump their Apache Labs if FLex had this feature.    
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9199 Posts
  • 3559 Reply Likes
I have seen the Flex amp in action with a few testers and it was not very good.

That was possible with some of the early alpha firmware and software.  We are still improving the hardware, firmware and the software for the PGXL.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
I own a 6600M and a Apche Labs 7000DLE..  If my 6600 had pure signal, I would dump the 7000DLE in a second. 
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 4015 Posts
  • 975 Reply Likes
This is Dave W2OX on his Flex amp along side of an Anan, Dave is on the right side. he was running at 1500W At this time he was on a Flex 6500, this was taken before 10 updates on the amp.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
I know Dave well and that looks great.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
I may get the Flex amp some day if the price comes down, a bit out of my reach.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
Oh and I think you mean WO2X.
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 4015 Posts
  • 975 Reply Likes
But like I said, if he were stronger than this shown I would see stuff because he was about 35 to 40db down, not 60 for instance.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
The fact remains 90% of the solid state amps out there are not that clean and PS would be a great thing and increase the Flex sales.  I'm VERY in tune with the Apache Labs community and I can tell you, a large part of the reason they have a lot of the market share is due to PS...
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 4015 Posts
  • 975 Reply Likes
Yes I agree, how ever, the Flex is very clean as we all know, It is hard to understand why they would not buy a radio unless it is at least 60db down, I thought the reason for it was to play nice on the band and not bother others? A clean 35 0r 40db down is playing nice with others I think. I did see Dave on the Anan using PS on his new amp and I see the benefits it had when he hit me 20 0ver S9
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
60db down?  Flex is no way in the range, I would say realistically like -35db at best.  But we are getting away from my point.  We are talking about the Flex amp and why its important to have the PS feature in the 6000's.    Not every Flex owner is going to have a clean amp or the Flex amp for that matter.  So, if you want to capture a larger part of the market, you give what the people want.  PS is a feature that would bring MORE sales, simple fact. 
(Edited)
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 4015 Posts
  • 975 Reply Likes
That must be really hurting Icom as well, none of their SDR radios have PS either. Mater of fact no SDR product does other than Anan. What seems to be driving Flex sales are things it can do others can't, such as built in native WAN remote, station integration, nothing comes close. And I think from what I hear on the air, these people your talking about likely would not buy a Flex even if it had PS now.
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
Both Kenwood and Icom have had WAN remote access for many years. Think about TS2000, TS480, Icom 7600, 7800, 7851, 9100, and 7610. Add to that the 7300 if you would consider using a PC as a server.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
Bill, i can see you understanding what drives sales is useless.   Also, understanding why PS is so important with the solid state amps becoming more and more popular today as well as how manufacturers need to keep up with their competitors.    You need to stop spending so much time on the forum and more time on what's going on in the market. 
(Edited)
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2317 Posts
  • 957 Reply Likes
They don't have native capability including zero configuration for firewalls. All of them required port forwarding. But if you really count it that way, Flex did have remote capability for years before SmartLink. It just required a VPN or even manual port forwarding (could be used with the iOS client only). SmartLink was the first to be a turn key solution and includes features like social login and MFA. 
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
Do you seriously think that there is any comparison in complexity between port forwarding and VPN? Really?

The simplicity of the Kenwood remote heads is just brilliant, especially if you are a CW person. Good luck doing real remote CW with your Flex.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2317 Posts
  • 957 Reply Likes
Maestro with its own built in Winkeyer has remote CW capability with a paddle. I use it all the time. Even without Maestro I can use Winkeyer emulation with SmartSDR CAT via N1MM+.  Or I can use CWX for keyboard CW on Windows with just regular SmartSDR. 

Port forwarding is inherently insecure. I'd like to think that with the responsibility for running a 1500 watt shortwave radio station I have some authentication and encryption layer in between. From what I understand, previous systems by Kenwood and RS-BA1 were plain text and open. Sure, you can have easy, but I can also leave my front door open and not have to worry about carrying keys with me. With SmartLink you get both easy and secure with authentication via Auth0 which features social login and MFA. All radio commands are encrypted with TLS. 

(BTW I am not talking about RemoteRig, which is a fine product. But it is a third party product, nonetheless).
(Edited)
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
Well said Ria.
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
Maestro is a $1,000 option. The Kenwoods don’t need anything. If we factor in the additional $1К I don’t think you can you beat the RemoteRig, which is hands down the gold standard.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2317 Posts
  • 957 Reply Likes
I'm a bit puzzled here. You're saying you don't need anything for the Kenwoods, yet you mention a "remote head." Is this part of the radio you detach and take with you? I must have missed the Kenwood models with this feature (except for maybe the TS480?) Or is it something that you buy extra, like a Maestro?

RemoteRig is $700 plus the cost of a remote head. 

You should try a Flex, with SmartLink, Rudy. You might like it. :)
(Edited)
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
Comparing a Kenwood to a Flex is like apples and oranges.   Do you even own a flex?
(Edited)
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
I stand corrected, the 2000 does not have a detachable face.

The fact of the matter is that remote access has been around for decades. Sure, Flex made a somewhat better mouse trap by providing limited zero config connectivity. Plenty of users have have tried and concluded that VPN still works better.

Back on top, IMHO PS is certainly a feature of value and differentiation to a lot more hand than remote access.
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 4015 Posts
  • 975 Reply Likes
Ok we will just go with that,,,,lol
Photo of Alan, K2WS

Alan, K2WS

  • 14 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
Yes it is better to have a cleaner signal then a dirtier one. And yes IMD is more noticeable on stronger signals then weaker ones. But how many would be able to detect the difference between a signal whose IMD is 35dB down and another that is 50dB down? Well, that depends on how far above the noise these signals are, at the receiver!
For example if band conditions allow 50dB signal to noise ratios at the receiver, then the cleaner signal would be apparent. But if s/n was no greater then 20dB at that receiver, there wouldn’t be any detectable difference in cleanliness. So, given that it’s more difficult to suppress IMD more completely, how much IMD suppression is enough, -35, -50, -65, -80dB? Because if s/n ratios at the receiver rarely exceed eg., 40dB, what practical value is suppressing IMD 80dB? So the trick is to reduce IMD enough so that in nearly all cases it won't be detectable.

I have built and used a hardware APD system with my 6500 since October 2015. The 6500 drives an Alpha 9500 (in the APD loop) to 1500w output. On 80 and 40 meters the IMD is 48 to 55dB down with the APD active and 35 to 40dB down without it. I’ve demonstrated this many times on the air. My system does not provide this level of performance on all bands and it requires electrical connections to the 6500 hardware. A software solution is highly desirable IMO.
If Flex could make their software APD suppress IMD 50dB or more on all bands and include, in the APD loop, an external Linear Amplifier, the 6000 Series would support this useful feature. I believe FRS should address this issue.
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
Alan,

Great post! Thanks for your thoughts. Would be super helpful if you could share the details of your APD. This type of a solution is worth considering by hams regardless of what radio they use today.

With respect to your point on IMD and band noise, please keep in mind that they are related in a not so obvious way. During contesting weekends, the band noise jumps way up because of all the dirty signals IN ADDITION to the atmospheric noise. So there is a huge value in pursuing cleaner signals.

Any chance you can publish your APD work?
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
Bill - Your example would not hold up with a solid state amp.
(Edited)
Photo of Marc Lalonde

Marc Lalonde

  • 369 Posts
  • 91 Reply Likes
not forgot that on 6m  PA and AMP have horrible IMD !!!  Pre-adaptive distortion is a must on that band  ,most radio barely make the regulation .  all radio published  specification is made on 14mhz 

this is how look a MSK144 signal on 6m , not to forgot that need to add over that amplifier own IMD !   and remember that MS operation is 30segond on 30 segond  and each QSO may take way over 15 minute on bad day



not to mention the 10-12 49mhz neighbor device 300khz away that suffer as soon signal is not perfect clean ,and susceptible to complain or make you a target  
(Edited)
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9199 Posts
  • 3559 Reply Likes
Your input gain is driven into distortion.  Back it off until the Mic meter is no longer in the red.
Photo of Marc Lalonde

Marc Lalonde

  • 369 Posts
  • 91 Reply Likes
previous setting close but not yet into compression ,but even if set in green 



or if i push to extreme 



But as said this is for every radio whit 12V PA and broadband ballun transformer
simply cannot make design clean for HF and 6M  ,only solution is Pre-distortion
Photo of Chris DL5NAM

Chris DL5NAM

  • 690 Posts
  • 154 Reply Likes
Define what is "make design clean for HF" - pse what is a clean signal ?
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P

  • 4239 Posts
  • 1351 Reply Likes
FYI:  The compression meter will not show anything when in DigU/L modes. 

For maximum signal purity on Digital modes, I would recommend setting your TX audio level two or three notches below the "zero" setting.  Which won't make much difference especially since I see that you are running less than full power output.
Photo of Marc Lalonde

Marc Lalonde

  • 369 Posts
  • 91 Reply Likes
Chris

that same signal trough XVRT port ,that is clean ;-)  , i actually think to made 6m optimized AMP  that take XVRT drive to 3W need to the BLF188 LDMOS 

Photo of Marc Lalonde

Marc Lalonde

  • 369 Posts
  • 91 Reply Likes
only for the demostration  ,the "SDR" part of radio do a extreme good job  even whit severs over driving  ,as usual  and like all radio it PA that screw thing on 6m


Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P

  • 4239 Posts
  • 1351 Reply Likes
Be careful about over-interpreting what your own panadapter display shows during transmit, especially what is shown outside the transmit filter limits.  Some of the "garbage" shown is actually digital artifacts generated internally due to your transmitter interacting with your receiver.  The actual transmitted signal does not show this.  If you were able to monitor with another Flex receiver that is well isolated and attenuated from the transmitter, you would likely get a different picture of the extended signal response outside of the transmit passband.
Photo of Marc Lalonde

Marc Lalonde

  • 369 Posts
  • 91 Reply Likes
Hi Ken
one of first test i do when receive my 6600 is measure the IMD  whit the ARRL test methodology whit radio only and whit my amplifiers for make sure to i meet regulation since i operate exclusively 6m trough 1296 whit lot of power ( MS / EME / tropo scatter )   and since it remote setup i must knot system limit 

and on 6m PA not let lot of headroom  ,must be really carefully whit the linear

must admit that msk144 is terrible mode for linearity ;-) ,that wly i chose it for demonstrated worst case scenario   

p.s. i complete yesterday my VHF  VUCC  ;-)  ,of course all done whit flex 6700/6600
Photo of Mike - VE3CKO

Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

  • 545 Posts
  • 287 Reply Likes
Congrats Marc on VUCC!
Photo of Marc Lalonde

Marc Lalonde

  • 369 Posts
  • 91 Reply Likes
Mike  Thank  ,think whit luck QSO is doable on VHF  ,i work Stan KA1ZE/3 in FN01 from FN46 every morning in CW and some time SSB  , i on ON4KST  almost every morning
Photo of K4ELO

K4ELO

  • 97 Posts
  • 18 Reply Likes
Thanks Gerald, appreciate it.  Maybe you guys should give me a discount on my 6600M order as a valued customer - 5000, 3000, 6700, 1500.  Keep up the good work!
Photo of Dave Gipson

Dave Gipson

  • 151 Posts
  • 47 Reply Likes
made me smile :)
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 3765 Posts
  • 907 Reply Likes
Flex radios are so clean any ways,,no rush Gerald.
Photo of Peter Bentley

Peter Bentley

  • 78 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Gerald,

I read with interest and great encouragement that Flexradio is still moving forward with pre distortion. Can you please re confirm that when it is implemented in a forthcoming version of SmartSdr, that it will run on the current 6700 product without hardware modification.

Thank you
G4BIM
Photo of Rob Fissel

Rob Fissel

  • 270 Posts
  • 48 Reply Likes
Steve Hicks has said at least once that I remember that the entire signature series line of radios are pre distortion capable in their hardware. Your 6700 is covered.
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P

  • 4239 Posts
  • 1351 Reply Likes
Yes, they have said multiple times that all of the 60000 series has been designed from the ground up with internal capabilities for Adaptive PreDistortion.

If you look at the new PowerGenius XL, there are sensing outputs designed for that purpose as well.
Photo of Gerald - K5SDR

Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

  • 830 Posts
  • 1515 Reply Likes
Yes, your 6700 will be compatible.  This is not a commitment on time frame.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
This is nice to hear that all the 6000's will be able to utilize the Pre-Distortion feature when its available
Photo of Mike - ZL1MRC

Mike - ZL1MRC

  • 62 Posts
  • 15 Reply Likes
So happy with my radio, excellent product and with the continued release of new software the 'other' manufactures can't keep ahead.  

73
Mike
Photo of Peter Bentley

Peter Bentley

  • 78 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Thank you for re confirming that Gerald.

I have spent the last 24 hours or so in a very unscientific way evaluating the new Anan 8000dle against the 6700.

Without going into reams of comments. I would just like to say the following:

In my opinion its receiver performance in general is really no better than the 6700, except possibly on 6m in terms of effective sensitivity.

Its fan is noisy and is always running even on continuous standby.
It is very big, ugly and heavy for an SDR.
It lacks a balanced XLR audio input.
Cannot be rack mounted.
Although it works OK with the modified PowerSdr, this is now a clunky piece of unattractive software
compared to SmartSdr.

Won't be keeping it ....

G4BIM
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9199 Posts
  • 3559 Reply Likes
In my opinion its receiver performance in general is really no better than the 6700, except possibly on 6m in terms of effective sensitivity.

An upcoming SmartSDR software update for the 6700 will improve its 6m and 2m performance with an additional 10 dB of RF preamp gain.
Photo of Paul Bradbeer

Paul Bradbeer

  • 170 Posts
  • 66 Reply Likes
That's interesting, Tim.  Will the 6500 also benefit in terms of 6m performance?
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9199 Posts
  • 3559 Reply Likes
No, just the 6700.  It has a different RF preamp architecture than the 6500 due to the availability of the 2m band.
Photo of EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

  • 1784 Posts
  • 547 Reply Likes
Woohoo!
Photo of Bill W2PKY

Bill W2PKY

  • 551 Posts
  • 96 Reply Likes
On my 6700 if using 30db gain on 6M [50 ohm terminated] I see blips on a wide panadapter but the blips do not produce an audible sound when tuning through them. Antenna noise covers most of the blips but not all. Is this normal? 
(Edited)
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9199 Posts
  • 3559 Reply Likes
Yes, you can see deeper into the noise floor with the panadapter than you can hear.
Photo of EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

  • 1784 Posts
  • 547 Reply Likes
The "woohoo" was meant for the upcoming increased gain and not the fact that the 6500 doesn't get it... Somehow I thought I was posting after Tim's first statement and my comment went through on the second one.
Photo of EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

  • 1784 Posts
  • 547 Reply Likes
The "woohoo" was meant for the upcoming increased gain and not the fact that the 6500 doesn't get it... Somehow I thought I was posting after Tim's first statement and my comment went through on the second one.
Photo of K4ELO

K4ELO

  • 97 Posts
  • 18 Reply Likes
All I can say is that my Anan 100 with pure signal has 3rd order IMD at about -50 to 55 db below signal.  That's impressive.  Hope Flex implements this soon.  Then I can sell the Anan.
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
Agreed!!  I think Flex would be VERY foolish not to get that feature implemented. 
(Edited)
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2317 Posts
  • 957 Reply Likes
I don't think they'll ignore this feature at all. In fact the Power Genius XL having the sample ports is a very good sign. No, I haven't seen it (APD in SSDR) and even if I did I couldn't tell...
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 4015 Posts
  • 975 Reply Likes
For people that would never ever use a radio with out PS, they will have to stay with the Anan for a while longer.
But on the other hand, I also would not consider anything other then a Flex as it does some things other radio's can't.
Photo of James Whiteway

James Whiteway

  • 1061 Posts
  • 303 Reply Likes
Personally, I like the title of this thread! Pre-adaptive distortion! I've experienced that in the past......before I adapted! :-)
( just a little humor)
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
It is worth noting that we are in same boat as 4 years ago, down to the "passion" for and against APD

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/adaptive-pre-distortion-on-a-6500
(Edited)
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 3617 Posts
  • 871 Reply Likes
I think almost everyone on this community wants PS, why not? But to say it is the be end all is silly. Without PS the flex does a nice job, as we see the screen shot of Dave transmitting beside an Anan at the same time shows it can be very clean when setup to be.
Dave is on the right in this picture, Anan on the left.
I remember those days, It was not really about PS, but that topic was used to bash Flex. And some of those guys are still at it on air.
I like the idea of PS, I heard Dave W2OX with his Flex amp and the Anan 8000. I was impressed how the amp worked with PS. Now when they implement PS on the Flex, it will be even more impressive not having that over processed sound the Anan has.
(Edited)
Photo of K4ELO

K4ELO

  • 97 Posts
  • 18 Reply Likes
Over processed?  While awaiting my 6600 I am running an Anan 100 using PS, a Heil PR781 and a W2IHY 8 band equalizer.  I am a regular on several nets and have always gotten outstanding 'broadcast quality' audio reports.  Sounds like someone didn't have their Anan set up correctly.
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 3617 Posts
  • 871 Reply Likes
Almost all, you can hear the processing, very loud, but hard to listen to. But I have heard a few when things are cranked way down that sounds much better.
Anyways, it's just me, I like a relaxed natural audio.
Photo of Mike - VE3CKO

Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

  • 471 Posts
  • 214 Reply Likes
Broadcast quality?  I don't think so, not with and SSB signal even with the bandwidth stretched out. Great sounding audio compared to many on the bands, yes for sure, outstanding reports, for sure but lets not call it broadcast quality. As good as the PR781 is a broadcaster would not use one, saying that I use a PR40 and quite happy with it even knowing I'll never benefit from the frequency response I don't care, I like the way it looks and how it picks up my voice and for the most part we all have to be satisfied with our own expectations of our stations. The bottom line that is all that matters.
(Edited)
Photo of N3NER

N3NER

  • 186 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
Anyone who says that a PR40, RE27 or any mic in that class will not improve their audio needs hearing aids. 
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 4166 Posts
  • 1328 Reply Likes
A studio mic can add some good clarity even to a relatively narrow SSB signal....BUT... with mics like the PR40 et. al. you MUST be careful not to let the low end run too hot, or the bass will overwhelm the processor - even if you keep your Mic level out of the red - and will add distortion artifacts within the TX passband.  Not only that, but if your signal has too much bass, it robs the transmitter of effective power in the higher audio frequency ranges that carry most of the intelligibility.  I HATE trying to copy one of those guys when they are weak... all I can hear is the mushy bass droning along.....

But this is the beauty of the TX EQ - you can fine-tune almost any mic to sound good.  But other Mics can be made to sound even better!  And that is why we have the ability to save multiple Mic Profiles - Rag chewing at S9 + 20 dB needs a different audio profile than Dxing or working the weak ones on 6 meters!
Photo of Mike - VE3CKO

Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

  • 471 Posts
  • 214 Reply Likes
Yes Ken absolutely right. Your video demonstrates this and I'm always referring any new Flexer to this. Some just don't get it, they love their old microphone cuz is good for DX. but hurts the ears in ragchew.  Taking advantage of a feature before us, multiple profiles, again without repeating, your video says it all. I've got it linked from my QRZ page but for those who haven't viewed them:
(Edited)