Pre-adaptive distortion

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  • Question
  • Updated 1 year ago
  • Answered
Any news on when Flex might implement this?  Maybe in the new 6400/6600 rigs?
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K4ELO

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Posted 2 years ago

  • 4
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Algorithms are complete but coding has not come up in the priority list yet.  No commitment on when.
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Marc Lalonde

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only for the demostration  ,the "SDR" part of radio do a extreme good job  even whit severs over driving  ,as usual  and like all radio it PA that screw thing on 6m


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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Be careful about over-interpreting what your own panadapter display shows during transmit, especially what is shown outside the transmit filter limits.  Some of the "garbage" shown is actually digital artifacts generated internally due to your transmitter interacting with your receiver.  The actual transmitted signal does not show this.  If you were able to monitor with another Flex receiver that is well isolated and attenuated from the transmitter, you would likely get a different picture of the extended signal response outside of the transmit passband.
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Marc Lalonde

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Hi Ken
one of first test i do when receive my 6600 is measure the IMD  whit the ARRL test methodology whit radio only and whit my amplifiers for make sure to i meet regulation since i operate exclusively 6m trough 1296 whit lot of power ( MS / EME / tropo scatter )   and since it remote setup i must knot system limit 

and on 6m PA not let lot of headroom  ,must be really carefully whit the linear

must admit that msk144 is terrible mode for linearity ;-) ,that wly i chose it for demonstrated worst case scenario   

p.s. i complete yesterday my VHF  VUCC  ;-)  ,of course all done whit flex 6700/6600
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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Congrats Marc on VUCC!
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Marc Lalonde

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Mike  Thank  ,think whit luck QSO is doable on VHF  ,i work Stan KA1ZE/3 in FN01 from FN46 every morning in CW and some time SSB  , i on ON4KST  almost every morning
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K4ELO

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Thanks Gerald, appreciate it.  Maybe you guys should give me a discount on my 6600M order as a valued customer - 5000, 3000, 6700, 1500.  Keep up the good work!
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Dave Gipson

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made me smile :)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Flex radios are so clean any ways,,no rush Gerald.
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Peter Bentley

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Gerald,

I read with interest and great encouragement that Flexradio is still moving forward with pre distortion. Can you please re confirm that when it is implemented in a forthcoming version of SmartSdr, that it will run on the current 6700 product without hardware modification.

Thank you
G4BIM
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Rob Fissel

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Steve Hicks has said at least once that I remember that the entire signature series line of radios are pre distortion capable in their hardware. Your 6700 is covered.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Yes, they have said multiple times that all of the 60000 series has been designed from the ground up with internal capabilities for Adaptive PreDistortion.

If you look at the new PowerGenius XL, there are sensing outputs designed for that purpose as well.
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Yes, your 6700 will be compatible.  This is not a commitment on time frame.
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N3NER

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This is nice to hear that all the 6000's will be able to utilize the Pre-Distortion feature when its available
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Mike - ZL1MRC

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So happy with my radio, excellent product and with the continued release of new software the 'other' manufactures can't keep ahead.  

73
Mike
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Peter Bentley

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Thank you for re confirming that Gerald.

I have spent the last 24 hours or so in a very unscientific way evaluating the new Anan 8000dle against the 6700.

Without going into reams of comments. I would just like to say the following:

In my opinion its receiver performance in general is really no better than the 6700, except possibly on 6m in terms of effective sensitivity.

Its fan is noisy and is always running even on continuous standby.
It is very big, ugly and heavy for an SDR.
It lacks a balanced XLR audio input.
Cannot be rack mounted.
Although it works OK with the modified PowerSdr, this is now a clunky piece of unattractive software
compared to SmartSdr.

Won't be keeping it ....

G4BIM
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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Woohoo!
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Bill W2PKY

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On my 6700 if using 30db gain on 6M [50 ohm terminated] I see blips on a wide panadapter but the blips do not produce an audible sound when tuning through them. Antenna noise covers most of the blips but not all. Is this normal? 
(Edited)
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Yes, you can see deeper into the noise floor with the panadapter than you can hear.
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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The "woohoo" was meant for the upcoming increased gain and not the fact that the 6500 doesn't get it... Somehow I thought I was posting after Tim's first statement and my comment went through on the second one.
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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The "woohoo" was meant for the upcoming increased gain and not the fact that the 6500 doesn't get it... Somehow I thought I was posting after Tim's first statement and my comment went through on the second one.
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K4ELO

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All I can say is that my Anan 100 with pure signal has 3rd order IMD at about -50 to 55 db below signal.  That's impressive.  Hope Flex implements this soon.  Then I can sell the Anan.
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N3NER

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Agreed!!  I think Flex would be VERY foolish not to get that feature implemented. 
(Edited)
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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I don't think they'll ignore this feature at all. In fact the Power Genius XL having the sample ports is a very good sign. No, I haven't seen it (APD in SSDR) and even if I did I couldn't tell...
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Bill -VA3WTB

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For people that would never ever use a radio with out PS, they will have to stay with the Anan for a while longer.
But on the other hand, I also would not consider anything other then a Flex as it does some things other radio's can't.
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James Whiteway

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Personally, I like the title of this thread! Pre-adaptive distortion! I've experienced that in the past......before I adapted! :-)
( just a little humor)
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Varistor

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It is worth noting that we are in same boat as 4 years ago, down to the "passion" for and against APD

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/adaptive-pre-distortion-on-a-6500
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Almost all, you can hear the processing, very loud, but hard to listen to. But I have heard a few when things are cranked way down that sounds much better.
Anyways, it's just me, I like a relaxed natural audio.
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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Broadcast quality?  I don't think so, not with and SSB signal even with the bandwidth stretched out. Great sounding audio compared to many on the bands, yes for sure, outstanding reports, for sure but lets not call it broadcast quality. As good as the PR781 is a broadcaster would not use one, saying that I use a PR40 and quite happy with it even knowing I'll never benefit from the frequency response I don't care, I like the way it looks and how it picks up my voice and for the most part we all have to be satisfied with our own expectations of our stations. The bottom line that is all that matters.
(Edited)
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N3NER

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Anyone who says that a PR40, RE27 or any mic in that class will not improve their audio needs hearing aids. 
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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A studio mic can add some good clarity even to a relatively narrow SSB signal....BUT... with mics like the PR40 et. al. you MUST be careful not to let the low end run too hot, or the bass will overwhelm the processor - even if you keep your Mic level out of the red - and will add distortion artifacts within the TX passband.  Not only that, but if your signal has too much bass, it robs the transmitter of effective power in the higher audio frequency ranges that carry most of the intelligibility.  I HATE trying to copy one of those guys when they are weak... all I can hear is the mushy bass droning along.....

But this is the beauty of the TX EQ - you can fine-tune almost any mic to sound good.  But other Mics can be made to sound even better!  And that is why we have the ability to save multiple Mic Profiles - Rag chewing at S9 + 20 dB needs a different audio profile than Dxing or working the weak ones on 6 meters!
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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Yes Ken absolutely right. Your video demonstrates this and I'm always referring any new Flexer to this. Some just don't get it, they love their old microphone cuz is good for DX. but hurts the ears in ragchew.  Taking advantage of a feature before us, multiple profiles, again without repeating, your video says it all. I've got it linked from my QRZ page but for those who haven't viewed them:
(Edited)