PowerGenius XL

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  • Updated 2 years ago
The chassis and specifications for the1500W solid state amplifier from FlexRadio, the PowerGenius XL has been updated and are now available on the PowerGenius XL product web page 
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Posted 2 years ago

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Jay / NO5J

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Tim

Any information about MEffA ??

It sounds new, whatzit do?? 


 SDRgadgets

73, Jay - NO5J

(Edited)
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k3Tim

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Jay

I think MEffA is a technique to change the DC voltage level to the PA in a manner to match the envelope of the exciting RF in order to yield the most efficiency. The premise is the PA efficiency is not constant at a fixed DC level but should vary with the envelope of the signal. If that's confusing, this paper is certainly:

http://rincon-mora.gatech.edu/publicat/jrnls/mtts03_pa_dyn.pdf

I'm not 100% sure this is what MEffA is but that's my guess at if for not.

More recent cell phones use this method in their PAs to yield extended bat life. Smartphone technology is just remarkable. They also have a builtin auto tuner.

Best,
Tim
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Jay / NO5J

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Tim

Ok. I was worried it might have something to do with Adaptive Pre-Distortion.   
Which might lead to significant flame wars in the Community. Internet flame wars could have something to do with global warming.

Oops!
A High Efficiency, Linear RF Power Amplifier With a Power-Tracking, Dynamically Adaptive Buck–Boost Supply
That title sounds like it might result in something linear with less distortion.

We live in interesting times.
               
 SDRgadgets

73, Jay - NO5J

(Edited)
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Ranko

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Tim is right. MEffA is our technique to change the drain voltage level on LDMOS  in order to yield the most efficiency of amplifier. 

Ranko, 4O3A
(Edited)
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Joe Sands

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Typo in QST ad... SO249 output connectors.

Joe W7UV
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docdailey

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$?
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James Kennedy-WU5E

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well if the FCC rejects it the price will raise for sure
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James Kennedy-WU5E

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and no I don't know the price
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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I'm guessing it will be comparable to the high end solid state amps. I don't see any reason for the FCC to reject it apart from the 15dB gain rule which is easily solved with an input attenuator.
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Lawrence Kellar KB5ZZB

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Has the FCC made any modification to the 15db rule. It was out for public comment earlier this year
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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Nothing yet. 15dB rule is in place. 
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Mike W9OJ

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It's filled with Kryptonite!
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Rory - N6OIL

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WOW! (eyes bulging) Wonder how many cases of beer I'm going to have to give up to buy one? Oh wait, I don't drink that much beer.
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Bill Turner

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Haven't seen any mention of SWR tolerance. Does it need an external antenna tuner?

W6WRT

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Michael Coslo

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Well start drinking beer so you can quit and save the money!  ;^)
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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I would guess that it would be standard 3:1 and have an ATU. LDMOS devices can handle 66:1 but output tank circuit components not so much.
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Norm - W7CK

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Not if your antenna is resonant.
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k3Tim

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Nice looking Amp, good specs. Well done.


A minor edit to the webpage, if I may be so bold:

Algorythm  -> Algorithm

Exceptional spurious performance using of diplexed filters for carrier  -->

Exceptional spurious performance owing to diplexed filters for carrier and
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Typos fixed.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I am wondering. And I have little understanding of SO2R operation. 
What is the advantage of two radios connected to the amp when only one radio can use the amp at one time?
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Multiple receivers; listening to another band for multipliers while working stations on a different band.  SO2R allows you to quickly change to the other band to work the multi and then switch back to the band you were working.
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Chris DL5NAM

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Bill
>> when only one radio can use the amp at one time? <<

is not correct.
We use 2 radio - but only one to transmit. I call CQ on 20m and search parallel  on 15m for a multi. Between CQ calls i can work with 2. TRX the multi on 15m (only a example).
(Edited)
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Michael Coslo

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Pretty pretty! Want!
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Robbie - KI4TTZ

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Yeah, I want it.  Now I just gotta move to a house where I can put an antenna that can handle it.
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Kevin K4VD, Elroy

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What the heck is all that green alien juvenile-delinquent-sports-car-looking lighting? Is it just a weird choice for external camera lighting or is this inside an amplifier with the name Genius? And FSM help me if someone says the color can be changed or cycled through 64,000 colors. Puh-leeze.

Phu-leeze.

Kev K4VD
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Ranko

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Hi to all,

different backlight colors indicates amplifier status.

Yellow - STBY
Green - OPERATE
Red - Transmit
Blinking red - Alarm
Magenta - firmware upload
..etc

User can set intensity of light, for own taste and who don't like it - will turn it off. Personally, I like it much, because of nice functionality.
As amplifier is NO TUNE, it can be away from radio desk. With different backlight you can see status of amplifier wherever it is... 

73
Ranko, 4O3A
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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Thanks for that, Ranko.  Much more understandable now.

Peter
K1PGV
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James Kennedy-WU5E

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Finally! someone gives a little bit! of information thanks Ranko


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K1UO - Larry

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ORANGE - Time to hammer the side panels back into shape before it cools down  :)
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Richard McClelland, AA5S

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The well appointed ham will need a matching PC to provide complementary lighting:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqZMSQ3f8K8
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James Kennedy-WU5E

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I'm going to beat up for writing this. but it was fun to do and try and figure out.

A single FLEX-6700 and PowerGenius XL comprises a complete SO2R station at half the cost of competing solutions.

FLEX 6700    $7,499

Power G XL   $3,299  ( a guess)! (will they try to lower and try to corner the market- Nope) don't have the manufacture base to build fast enough was my thought process-small company(best radio! for sure)

I have drill down on this many times trying to figure this out!

using Elecraft K3S * 2 NO go

using ANAN 200D *2  No Go

using ICOM 7851  close maybe

using Yaesu 5000  maybe

using Kenwood TS-990

as a DX'er I want a kiss ass AMP, and if they do build at lower price for the guys like 6500 and 6300  with one PA unit.\ that would nice.

wish I could been a fly on the wall while the 403A guys were building and flex where talking to each other..

I appreciate that Flex bends over backwards for us Hams for the most part.

can't wait to have this amp on my desk

Jim

WU5E

 

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KC2QMA_John

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Now that the BLF188XR finals are only $200 each retail and that's if you buy 1 or 2 FRS buys them in bulk so more like $150 or less each. My guess is MFJ will have a full legal limit HF amp using them out in a few years and I guaranty it wont be $7000.

I just don't understand how you get to $7000 when the most expensive parts in the amp sells for $400, So where does the $6.600 come from. And BTW is it true that the $7000 is the only the introductory price for Pre-Order customers only and then the price goes up from there?

Oh and just think of what shipping and insurance will be on $7000

I have A legal limit amp now and it works great, By the time I'm ready for a new amp legal limit solid state amps will be under $2000.

No thanks I’ll pass for now.

(Edited)
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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Just as a side note, BLF188XR is basically obsolete now. I believe the PGXL is using the MRF1K50H which is capable of 1.5kw and not 1.2kw.  This is used in the new SPE 1.5K-FA and the later runs of the 1.3K-FA as well. (I believe mine has it). These are about $275 and in bulk will be less of course. Minor difference but worth noting. 

I am sure that MFJ/Ameritron will create an amp soon. But it won't be as nicely integrated and they will likely cut corners, both in quality and in features. It probably won't be true SO2R either. My friend K2EZ has an Ameritron solid state amp in her rover and it's nothing but problems. Has been back to the factory and is headed back again for a different problem. 

Note that I am not defending the $7000 price but if you want MFJ pricing you'll get an MFJ amp in all respects. 
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KC2QMA_John

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Yes the big problem with MFJ/Ameritron is quality control. But they are good products for the price and certainly not in the same class as Flex or the PGXL.

Maybe Icom, Yeasu or even one of these Chinese Co’s they may come out with a similar amp.

These is no doubt that the PGXL will integrate amazing with the 6000 series and will blow the doors off of anything from MFJ/Ameritron but I still don't see how you get to $7000.


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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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"SO2R at half the price of competing solutions" is how.  It was priced with the market,  about the same as an Acom 2000a and cheaper than an Alpha 9500. 
(Edited)
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4O3A Signature

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Hi everyone,


Every product has multiple elements that determine the buyers:

  • Quality

  • Price

  • Design

  • Functionality

  • Subjective reasons etc.

PG XL features two MRF1k5 output transistors. It gives full legal limit power on SSB with good IMD and over 2000W on other modes. This is what everyone will initially look at when weighing the price.

What other features does PG XL have that are worth considering? A sophisticated unique system of control over every element of the amplifier. At the time of writing this is the only amplifier that controls every element from the motherboard: power supply, RF amplifier, LDMOS working class, amplification etc. Bulid in MEffA and APC

Analyzing the price of an amplifier by only looking at the price of the output transistors makes no sense. GU78 valve costs 300-400$ and amplifiers using it cost 5000$ or more. You need to have two for SO2R. I assume we all know that transistors can not work without  BIAS and output circuit, power supplies, output filters, control....and all that needs to be fitted in a box. Projections of solid state amplifiers priced at 2000$ while retaining quality are incorrect and frivolous. Of course, I do not doubt they will appear at some point and have their place in the market, based on what they offer.


73

Ranko

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Simon Lewis

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that has to be the ugliest thing I have ever seen in ham radio and thats saying something!

no thanks
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KF4HR

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WU5E - A legal limit solid state 160-6M amp for $3299?  That would be nice but I'm guessing it will cost at least twice that figure.

Hopefully the green gaming lights are optional. 

What does ICAS stand for?    
(Edited)
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Jay / NO5J

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Ralph

Here's a good explanation of ICAS.
http://www.ab4oj.com/quadra/icas.html

 SDRgadgets

73, Jay - NO5J

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David G4NRT / Z21NRT

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Is this amplifier likely to be available in the United Kingdom?  I have reserved an SPE Expert 1.3K-FA and will need to make a decision as to which one to buy.

David G4NRT
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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It originates in EU. Brexit?
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Chris DL5NAM

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David G4NRT / Z21NRT

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Thanks Chris. Food for thought!! 73, David
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Yes, it will be available in UK/EU after CE certification.  It will ship from Europe in that case without coming to the US.
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Paul

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Will the amp include a directional coupler to provide a low level output for APD? IMHO it would be less appealing without this.
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Yes, it will include a low level directional coupler output on a BNC connector.
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Paul

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Many thanks for confirming Gerald, this is good news for me. I am currently following closely the progress of another (albeit lower power) linear but I will now be considering PGXL as a viable alternative. (As long as the 'mood lighting' really can be turned off ;)
(Edited)
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Sounds like we need to get Marcus one so we can get an iOS app.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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And the USD/EUR exchange rate is looking quite good :)
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Chris DL5NAM

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But be sure, the PA will be more expensive in EU then in US !

Why?

For EU customer, the PA must pass 2 times the Atlantic ocean (in US she get the - in EU useless) - FCC label

 :-)
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Greetings from Paris

With great EU/USD Exchange rate one could pick it up here and get a VAT refund when brining it back to the USA. And possibly save shipping costs by carry9ng it as luggage

OTOH. Problably much easier to get delivered in the USA.

Android. Definitely an EU solution as most USA is iOS.
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W5XZ - dan

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really, howard? there are LOTs of 'apple haters' here in na, je crois...we're not ALL apple fans ya know..
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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IME, Google's review process is far less rigorous than Apple's. I've had a few builds rejected for things that passed easily in google play. Plus there is sideloading in android which you don't have in unmodified iOS so you don't even need an app in the store to be able to use it on some devices.

Also for flex users, I'm sure Marcus will have support for it in later versions of SmartSDR for iOS.
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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The green lighting seems to be an.... unusual.... choice, given the age of the primary target market segment for this product.

I HAVE been using the word "unusual" on the forum a lot lately, haven't I. Hmmmmm....

Peter
K1PGV
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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You can turn it off as Ranko said.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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What is the options matrix?

Would prefer only status indicator LEDs, as may well be remote rack mounted.

Will be important to know if it is keyed or what it is doing if troubleshooting.

The game boy lights don't appeal much BTW.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Only one thing comes to mind

 Resistance..   is...  Futile.....
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Kevin K4VD, Elroy

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Now the green it makes sense.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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nailed it.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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anyone want to buy a nice Alpha 99?  should give me enough for the down payment. ;-)
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Bill W2PKY

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Yea, thinking of selling my QRO 2500 & AL-1500 6M amp to pay for 1/2 of a G. Amp
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Chris DL5NAM

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... or you check web at http://rf-kit.de and and you will see there are a 2k4 PA with automatic tuner - much cheaper ( but without Disco light's ;-) also infos on Facebook -> B26 PA
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Ranko

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Hi Chris,


I took a look on amplifier you mentioned. Nice project, but those are not to be compared for many reasons.

Output power we are talking about is power with good IMD (>36dB). It’s not the maximum power which amplifier can run.

Power Genius XL could be 2400W easy, but it's not. Simply, 2400W is not under the wanted specifications with IMD. This is a reason why we named amplifier XL, not PG2000, or PG2400. CW power of Power Genius XL is significantly more than 1500W.  SSB output power will be also higher.
Power Genius XL is first one amateur radio amplifier with build in IMD pre-corrector. It helps a lot in improving IMD and increasing maximum power. From my experience, I am pretty sure that IMD starts to degrade when amplifier (with 2xLDMOS, without pre-correction) comes close to 1200W.

I am planning to make detailed measuring of all SS AMPs on market and to publish results together with plots and videos. It will help to community to understand important facts about solid state amplifiers and to make right choice.

 

73

Ranko
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W5XZ - dan

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tnx link, Chris...

73
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Tim - G7GFW / F4VQP

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Have to say that I am a little surprised that it will only offer 2 outputs. I would have thought that for an amplifier of this spec and quality would have at least 3 if not 4 outputs.

Or am I being stupid?

Tim
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James Kennedy-WU5E

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I have a 8x1 AG love it

wu5e

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Ranko

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SO2R is a concept that implies switching behind amplifier.
It's easy to add few more outputs on amplifier for those who are not SO2R and will use it for DXing.
BUT - isn't is nicer to have all big coaxial cables connected on Antenna genius somewhere away from radio desk? And controlled over the LAN? 
Flex radio, PG XL and Genius switchers/Rotator controllers are simply new concept.

73
Ranko. 4O3A
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Rich - N5ZC

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Gerald/Ranko,

Sign me up as a beta user, it would be plug and play at my qth.

Rich - N5ZC
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K1UO - Larry

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Yeah, me too.....  I can test the WAN link monitoring and control capabilities while it resides at my remote with the 8X2 switch already in place and Maestro as the control head 8 miles away.  Of course I would test the cw  side of things mostly.  :)     
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Sergey, R5AU

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Hi Guys, i wanna to say ~25 years ago i have tested MEffA prototype system that we call -  Power Amplifier with "feedback Forward" and at this time efficiency like over 50% was a dream however such schematic can give over 80% with final staff in class C and recommended IMD.  FRS did a right choice !
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Absolutely unconcerned with price points if the apparent level of innovation and integration are there.

Question becomes whether to incorporate legacy design in station building or design taking advantage of the new features?

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Larry - WA7LZO

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Hi, Ranko!

May I ask you 2 questions about the PowerGenius XL:

1) Will it have a built-in internal tuner, and

2) Is the 3 x 4 inch "panel" on the front of the chassis a mechanical badge, or some sort of a label, or is this an LCD or OLED display panel, providing various status information for local use, when not using a remotely connected iOS device to check on status?

Thanks, in advance, Ranko, for all of your kind help in this mater!!

Br,
Larry
WA7LZO/WR7DV
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Larry - WA7LZO

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Hi, Ranko!

Wow! So glad to hear you are planning a 2kW capable external tuner that will fully integrate with the XL via Ethernet. This will be a perfect solution! I can't wait to purchase both the XL and your tuner!

Thank you very much for kindly answering my question so quickly, Ranko.

73,

Larry
WA7LZO/WR7DV
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Ranko

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Hi Larry,

it won't have build in antenna tuner. We decided to have an external antenna tuner for 2kW, as device which can be used separately. If we build it in amplifier, we limited it's use. Antenna tuner will be advanced, LAN controlled, easy to connect to PG XL etc. It will cost much less as bundle with PG XL. More to come.

"Panel" you are asking is color LCD touch screen display, 320x240 for local use. We add it to keep Power Genius XL as an open platform for future upgrades.

Winn Application looks the same.

73
Ranko, 4O3A
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K1UO - Larry

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Good Ranko...   to really enhance the proposed TUNER-XL... Provide a model option able to be located at the antenna base and powered over the coax with LAN/WAN Monitoring :)   Just dreaming...   Nice work and quality on your various products Ranko.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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GeniusMatch XL would be a nice name for it. 
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Rick - N4RZ

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Being able to remote the tuner for the amp is a great idea!  
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Rich - N5ZC

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Ranko,

What SWR can the amp handle without an antenna tuner?

Rich - N5ZC
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Ranko

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Hi Rich,

up to 1:2 with some power derating.

73
Ranko
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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2:1? If so that's reasonable. Does it alarm when swr is that high or does it shut off as soon as it crosses the threshold?
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Ranko

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Hi Ria,

It will derate power on acceptable level for output filters insertion losses until it comes to threshold. 

SWR alarm will disable PTT .

73
Ranko
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Bill Turner

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Sounds like a Palstar HF-Auto or the equivalent will be necessary for most of us. That's a $1500 piece of hardware, but on the other hand the price of the amp should be $1500 less too.  And if you can live without autotune, you can build a manual tuner for a fraction of that.

W6WRT

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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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It would also be trivial for them to support legacy radios. 

Think of it - even the SPE Expert, alpha, Acom and other amps support legacy radios. There's a built in frequency counter to change bands and a band change button on the front to accommodate legacy radios without CAT. 
(Edited)
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Jim Miller

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This sounds like a nice amplifier and I would be interested in one even though I do have a SPE 2K-FA that works wonderfully with my 6300 and I get magnificant signal reports with the radio and amp.
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Jim Miller

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I wonder what this amplifier will cost?  I paid around $6,000 new direct from Rome for my 2k fa with a 2 year warranty anthough it would have to be shipped to Rome for repairs.  On the other hand it would be nice to have everything serviced in Austin since it is only about 100 miles from me.  I visited their location once.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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$7000 is the current price. $1000 deposit gets you a reservation