Please get rid of Anonymous Posting

  • 16
  • Idea
  • Updated 3 years ago
  • Not Planned
During the recent conversations we got a niumber of anonymous posts that were clearly based on wrong or outdated information. It was pretty obvious that the anonymous posters had intended to missinform the questioners and maliciously lead them astray

They get away with such deeds because they can post anonymously and there is no recousre to them.

I would suggest that this community at least require a valid call sign or equivalent identification before anyone be allowed to,post heir opinions
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Posted 3 years ago

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W7NGA

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Howard .. weren't you once complaining about the 'nanny state' ?

big grin ...
(Edited)
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Steven Hess

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I check in with Google ID.. Google knows I'm a radio amateur. It's not hard to be verified as a licensed operator or the fact you own a Flex Radio or two or three.

KC6KGE 
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Bill -VA3WTB

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We will just keep calling them out Howard and correct what they say. I know exactly what you mean. And I know there are a few here that see us as Flex guards or what ever, but on purpose bad info is just wrong. And we do know who they are, the same ones.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Official Response
Howard,

Not everyone who purchases our radios are hams, so the callsign requirement is a bit limiting.  And some people are more privacy conscience and may not want to give their call and they have the right.

Also the Community is a place of openness and free of most reasonable restrictions.  This allows people to voice their opinions and ask questions without fear of censorship.  As the vendor side of this relationship, we actually derive more actionable information to make our products and services better when the comments are not all rainbows, cotton candy and unicorns. 

As such, the Community is a double edge sword; you get the good with the not so good.  This is the intent of a Community.  And the Community is also (mostly) self-correcting too.  If someone is misinformed, the Community tries to educate, as it should.  If someone shows up with a nefarious agenda, well, I think most folks can spot that easily and respond accordingly by not feeding the troll.  I understand very well where you are coming from and I appreciate the effort to protect the integrity FlexRadio, our brand and products and promote sale and truth.  Your intentions are well paced and honorable.  But I think it is better to err on the side of openness in the long run.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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There are high quality forums where a certain amount of "pen name" usage is allowed, but integrity is maintained by the group owners/moderators having confirmed the validity and real identity of each participant.

The group knows this and it becomes easier to both participate and have confidence that members are neither trolls nor Sock Puppets.

Perhaps this community could adopt that configuration?

Personally I would be all for requiring members to use their call signs - we can't go on the air with our Flex Radios without them, so why should we be posting here suddenly behind a cloak?  

Those few who have special needs can be handled specially, after being cleared by FRS for unmoderated posting.  

I respectfully disagree with the need to accept the not so good with the good - and I worry that we've not even seen the tip of the iceberg of the not so good yet.  

As for self-moderatoration, I find nothing better to remind myself not to put into a post anything I'd be unhappy owning up to because I always use my call sign.  

I guess I'm the sort that would prefer to tune in at 14.236 to try a developing FreeDV mode than one who wastes time on 75m talking smack.

One big thing that doesn't get said enough - both the FRS team and the regular participants all deserve a Thank You for doing what they do here.  The community as a resource has been very helpful to me personally in solutions to shared problems and to meet others, albeit if only by forum posts. Tim W4TME especially deserves our thanks for his calm steady hand, and tireless efforts!

73 all,

Steve
K9ZW
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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As part of the GetSatisfaction (now Sprinklr) Community, your user account allows you access to any GetSat community.  The subscriber database is not unique to FlexRadio and we cannot enforce any type of callsign requirement other than banning users which is not an acceptable solution.

One of the key features that define a community vs. a message board is the company does not and should not control community behavior. Community members – customers and prospects – control the conversation in the community. We can only create and influence the tenor community by establishing and demonstrating community values.
(Edited)
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Gopro

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Howard,

and what about whites and blacks, or blue-eyed and dark-eyed?
There are so many ways for discrimination!

73,
Bozidar
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Burt Fisher

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The company does not try to control behavior? Really? No one is ever "advised" to change behavior? Threads are never closed because the subject has deviated? I am not saying doing the above is wrong but if done, behavior is controlled.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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In order for this site to be organized Tim needs to keep things in order as much as he can, keeping topics where they should be. And if there are personal attacks, that will bring on a closure.It is all needed for the health of this community.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Some level of oversight is necessary to avoid anarchy. In rare circumstances, grievous behavior and transgressions require a little more direct influence to demonstrate and reinforce established community values.
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Burt Fisher

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I agree with both comments above, therefore the following comment is not correct, " the company does not and should not control community behavior."
It does, and should.
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Dave -- W7IWW

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I applaude Tim's comments as he hits the bulls eye on why so many of us love and appreciate the Flex team. He, and they, are honest, proactive, forthright, reasonable, accessible, and open. How can that be beat? We hams who embrace the leading (bleeding??) edge of our beloved ham radio hobby utilizing SDR can sort the wheat from the chaff. While some contributors can be annoying, or have a different perspective or motive, let's not let it get in the way of our joy. See you on the air!! I would love to exchange reports with my amazing 6700.

Dave W7IWW
(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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Tim is also there when you need him and competent.

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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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A good placard to place over the monitor, "Don't feed the trolls!"
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Steve W6SDM

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The problem with open forums is that you get Internet trolls.  It's a fact of life like flies and mosquitoes in the summer, or lids on 14.313 MHz.  Personally, if someone who's not identifiable tells me something, I take it with a grain of salt - at least until they have proven themselves credible.

Oh, Tim:  Rainbows, cotton candy, and unicorns?  I didn't think you could smoke that stuff where you live.  :)  It reminds me of the part of the 1960s that I can't remember. 
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Walt - KZ1F

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Define troll. I suspect my definition is radically different than yours. I, further, believe Lee proved my point.
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Steve W6SDM

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My definition of an Internet troll is a person who frequents forums or social media for the purpose of stirring up discontent by provoking other users into an emotional response.  They're usually anonymous or at least identified with something other than their actual identity. 
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Burt Fisher

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A troll as practiced by some hams is anyone who gives an opinion that does not line up with the crowd. Usually identified when the word "we" is used as when ONE ham uses "we think you are a jerk" , when HE is actually speaking for himself.
(Edited)
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Reg

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The Wikipedia definition is actually pretty good.  "In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl//ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

Reg
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Michael - N5TGL

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That is *exactly* what a troll is, particularly "with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
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Burt Fisher

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The Wikipedia definition is actually pretty good.as stated. So how does someone become a troll by voicing their opinion that the 6000 series is wanting because some features are not yet ready?
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DrTeeth

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Most people cannot tolerate a contrary opinion, especially when that opinion is vigorously defended. Those who hold them get labelled "troll".
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Tim

Thanks for the explanation of company policy

I guess the next time an obvious troll appears spreading total nonsense we should just totally ignore him so that he quickly crawls back into his hole.
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Robert AA6UP

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Doesn't the group require some sort of email verification before an individual can post here? We think you're nuts if you don't... hi  :-}
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Yes, user accounts are verified to prevent robot spamming
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Gopro

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It is always  amazing how different opinion makes problems,
but this speaks for yourself

73,
Bozidar
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Lewis Cheek

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When I drink my Flex Kool Ad, I stir in a large amount of reality knowing software development lags hardware. I hope another hardware version is not rolled out before software is working on what we now have. While I would like a 6500 I can't bring myself to purchase until I see real progress in basic features. 

Lew
N4CO
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Gopro

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I am in agreement with you.
73,
Bozidar
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Bill -VA3WTB

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This is another example of poor info, the Flex at present time is not missing BASIC features as far as we know, can you be clear on what basic features are missing?
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Lewis Cheek

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Bill, I'm not going to turn this into a debate, however I have had and sold two Flex-6300s ( both early units) and at time I sold them, features such as NB, NR and notch filers didn't work, or didn't work well. These functions are more important to me than remote control. Maybe Flex has to get more robust features working due to code implications, I don't know. Seems a while back N5AC addressed balancing features and trade offs. Maybe more basic features work now, I can't say, but I can say for, other than lack of qsk, my Flex-3000 serves me well. Will we see a Flex iteration with additional on board processing, or a approach which limits one function to improve another?

No need to cherry pick one's comment. Just because one own a Flex ,Elecraft, or Icom, does not make it the best radio. I have yet to find the perfect rig, to me it's a matter of trade offs. 

Lew
N4CO
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Bill -VA3WTB

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No I am not interested in debating either, that Is not why I asked. As we all know the DSP was not slated to be finished till V1.5 due out in a few days. One reason it has taken this long is they are developing a technology for the DSP. They could have just used what is already around and slapped it in there and say ok done a long time ago. But they are working on something very new, they want better then whats out there. I don't know why some things are in the order they are in at Flex, weather it is all about demand or do some things need to be done in an order because of code, I don't know.
For many just as the radio works right now is all they need and want, for others the DSP is the deal breaker. Depends were you live I think.

I do know that the 6000 radios are very complicated and they are developing a technology as they go, some like the idea of growing with the radio and being part of the development with input. And others don't want to be part of the ride.

But to say that the radio is lacking basic features is a little misleading, they are all there, but work is being completed on them is the better way to say it.
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K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

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Lay off the Kool-Aid a little bit, Bill!

It's been three or four releases now and the transmit audio buffer noise burst issue has still not been fixed properly...... And my recent posts inquiring as to if if it will be fixed in the next release have gone unanswered.

Is it too much to ask for features we were led to believe were coming sooner rather than later, as well as proper bug fixes, before we start seeing new products, such as Maestro, SO2R, and other new products?

Eric
K2CB
(Edited)
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Gopro

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Hi Eric,
what i have said before and become immediately a troll?!?

That what Flex call      -SmartSDR for Windows Feature Highlights-
is nothing more than a simply wish list.  From one serious firm is to expect, et least, timelines and not what they will to see in the future.
73,
Bozidar
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Eric I replied respectfully to you and did not call you any names. I just presented the facts from other post from Gerald. But I know it is a cool thing for you guys to say we are drinking to much cool-aid for setting the information straight.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Burt, it is really interesting what you said in your next to last post. Yes, that is the definition I would apply to this board. It is what I was driving at with Flex religious purity test. If one doesn't sing the song just as loud as as the loudest, you are deemed a troll, mocked, ridiculed, and recipient of snide remarks generally from the quasi-employee Elmer(s). Your last post poised a very interesting question nobody answered. Put slightly differently, why is it someone is deemed a troll because they voice the opinion the 6000 is not done cooking yet while FRS is off chasing boxes to compete with Elecraft? I do think 2016 will be the year of the SDR. That doesn't mean the 6000 isn't an outstanding radio (I've never wavered from that position), it just isn't the ONLY outstanding radio and in about 6 months, I believe the game radically will change, be it competition from Asia or from Elecraft. Nobody is ceding the market to FRS. I'd vote for FRS to make the 6000 software bulletproof before venturing into new features or new hardware. I believe very shortly there will be tremendous downward pressure on pricing. I want version 1 bullet proof before that occurs.

I, for one, am getting really tired of being mocked and ridiculed by some who take their, um, affection for FRS and the 6000 to an almost sexual level.  And THAT, imho, reflects very poorly on FRS. I believe FRS, in trying to chum up with the kool-aid drinkers is taking sides. And, just for the record, Howard and I get along really well and email OOB often. The fact I sometimes call him out for saying, what I consider to be foolish stmts doesn't require FRS to come in and threaten to excommunicate me. (We all know Timothy wasn't referring to Howard). God forbid an elmer be chastised. This board doesn't need to be drama club. Also, I often 'like' comments he (Howard) makes. And, should FRS decide to take action against an Elmer, Howard would be towards the bottom of that list.
(Edited)
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Guys - do to a Harley web forum and rant on about how your rice burner is a better choice and everyone at the HD forum is therefore stupid, and watch the fireworks go.

Ditto if the brands are reversed.

Trolls include those too lazy to do a forum search first, and then grinding against the grain to the general flow.

The games not only distract but they end up in later searching possibly appearing every bit as valid as the correct information.

Net postings lack much of the Quality of other forms of interpersonal communications, though usually the advantages of world-wide participation and such offset the quality drop.  

I've heard mention here about cognitive dissonance being somehow a requirement.

That is pure crap.  While manure may in the end contribute to the growth of the food we eat, it has no place on the plate served.  

In the groups I moderate Troll Posts are deleted, and the Troll put on moderated-postings so they can read but what the write is subject to an approval process. 

Tim has FRS continued position and the technical limitations of the software, so what we have is what it will be.  

Hopefully we can avoid the degeneration of the community into a usenet style free for all for the long run.  It's working now so there is hope.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Walt - KZ1F

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Steve, one difference between this forum and, say, yours or Yahoo or usenet forums is this one is, effectively, corporately sponsored. It is the identified vehicle to communicate with the vendor. Also, as you were speaking in the abstract, one person's 'troll' may be the silent majority's advocate. It's a matter of perspective and who is doing the name calling.
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Walt - KZ1F

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The problem with quarantining the so-called troll is that truly makes an echo chamber where any idea, any thought inconsistent with the person with the control never gets heard. That only works in the blogosphere where the blog owner is also the thought police, which is antithetical to the notion of a forum.
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Lee, Elmer

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The vendor listen's and is respectful to you Walt.  You don't see Flex on here telling you to pound sand every time you drop a loaf in a thread.  You don't see yourself banned.  Instead you are quite allowed to voice your opinion and vindictive.  It would be nice perhaps if you would show Flex the same respect they accord you.  If you're tired of being mocked and ridiculed stop mocking and ridiculing, or become used to it, or leave if it's simply too much for you to bear.  You will and do reap what you sew.  It's interesting you can identify the problem but seem at a loss for a solution.

73  W9OY
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Walt - KZ1F

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I was trying to avoid calling you out by name but since you went ahead and did it then yes you are the one who should be disciplined. As you are not the vendor it's disingenuous of you to speak on their behalf as I don't believe you speak on behalf of anyone but yourself. I am completely awed they're letting you be Elmer at this point.
(Edited)
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Gopro

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Hi Walt,

you see, exactly this I thought -
itself called group and moral guru (elmer)
tray to discipline you,
and this only why you have loud spoken your own mind!
Incredible.
73,
Bozidar
(Edited)
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Gopro

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Hi Steve,

i definitely agree with you.
It is obvious, that everyone who have e different opinion from this group,is not welcome and immediately accused as troll or whatever. Moreover, especially loud and unfriendly are those who ourselves  posture for something special in group - some kind of gurus.
I didn't know that this group is sponsored by manufacturer - that tells enough.
Anyway, I am pretty sure that, in this community, also exist  a group of people who do not tell their own, free and different, opinion, out of fear to be destroyed from others.
Which is a shame, really-because on this way true ham-spirit, free thinking and basic postulate of ham radio, goes away.

73,
Bozidar
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Burt Fisher

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The name calling of troll is not confined to this community, in fact it is much more rare to hear that term here than other ham forums. As others have said, the word flies out of the typists keys far too easily when there is merely a different view expressed.

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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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/Another thread swirls down the porcelain vortex.

You know, I had a whole long reply written to this thread... and after reading it but before hitting the SUBMIT button, I thought "Well that's pretty clever, but it doesn't really contribute anything in terms of the overall thread."  So I deleted it.

I will say this for this thread, though: It's a thread that has something to offend just about anybody on the forum. It's an equal opportunity offending thread.  That's quite an achievement.

As a great musician once said "oh well, whatever, never mind."

Peter
K1PGV
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Lewis Cheek

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Peter, speaking for ONLY myself, I enjoy reading what you have to say, I find it informable. Anyway to send to me ?

73's
Lew
N4CO
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Burt Fisher

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There is very little I offensive here.
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Charles - K5UA

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It must time for another software update. It is amazing how correlated the angst level tracks the time elapsed since the last update. Just an observation. Probably inversley proportional to the solar flux level too. Maybe we should all be talkIng ON our radio instead of ABOUT our radio. Peace everyone. All this,too, will pass.
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Lewis Cheek

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Charles, as soon as these afternoon/evening thunder storms move along back to hf :).
 For last two-three weeks it's been every afternoon on South Carolina coast.

Lew
N4CO
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Doug Hall

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I saw this quote today, and immediately I thought of this particular thread. I'm with Emerson on this one:

“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Tom Clark

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I understand Tim's reply, but I tend to agree with Howard's original posting. I really prefer to read postings for an individual displaying  both a name & call. Quite often I choose to repy offline and that is really tough if you can't figure out who the individual is.
73, Tom  K3IO
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Walt - KZ1F

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I agree as well, for the same reason you mention Tom. When Howard said anonymous, I was thinking 'anonymous' or 'guest', which I've never seen.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Unless I missed it. Did these people ever Identify as Howard asked of them?
VA3WTB
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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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Of course they didn't Bill. If they were willing to honorably stand behind their comments, they would have joined the Community with a real name and call sign.

Associating your comments with a real identity has a lot of value. Knowing who you are can help community members understand your viewpoint and perhaps the genesis of your opinions. One of my favorite sayings is "What you see is a function of where you sit." Using a real name helps others know "where you sit" in many cases.

Peter
K1PGV
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Barry N1EU

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I also agree that a callsign (or "SWL") should accompany all posts in public ham forums by hams.

Barry N1EU
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Why anyone not want to identify?
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Walt - KZ1F

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Hadn't this thread passed its expiration date? Bill, didn't you just append you call to your name? It struck me it looks different now. There are several 'regulars' that just use their name. There's a guy, walt, not me that's always used his first name. There was that kid, months ago, not even licensed, thinking about buying a Flex 6000. Was he a troll? Is it the lack of a call sign that makes one a troll or a view contrary to that held by, perhaps, a half dozen or so of this boards most vocal?

IMHO, if one comes here with the sole intent of sticking the proverbial stick in the eye, that's completely different, I agree.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I have never noticed that I was not identifying when I post, so I thought I should change that. Identifying or not has nothing to do with being a troll. It seems clear to most what a troll is. No more to be said, for me anyways.
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DrTeeth

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TBH, as long as the forum does not allow multiple 'guest' or 'anonymous' posts, I really do not care. Some forums do and it gets very difficult to tell which 'guest' is which.

It would be very easy for anybody to hijack a callsign and use it here and make themselves look kosher. As long as an individual uses the same (and unique) username here when posting, a callsign is a non-issue.
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Walt - KZ1F

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My point, Bill, was it never mattered to me that you didn't have your call sign in you get satisfaction id. If I were to go on another of getsatisfaction's community boards my callsign in my id would be jarring and confusing to those other board members. I think the point of this thread is it had everything to do with being a troll. Or that was the contention.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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Guy, I had asked Howard that very question, as I've never seen an Id of 'anonymous' or 'guest' on here and wasn't clear what the issue was. I believe he said it was people just using their name (first, last, both).
(Edited)
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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I can agree with Tim that anonymous posting of OPINIONS allows people more freedom to express OPINIONS that may be contrary to the groups general OPINION. The example is the anonymity of he voting booth.


However when an anonymous poster posts Alleged FACTS which are not based on actual experience or based on reading of OUT OF DATE INCORRECT INTERNET RAMBLINGS they can use that anonymity to cause harm to others. The example is a masked bandit ..

Of. Course, the Trolls use anonymity
(Edited)
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Guy

There is a Major difference between those who,spout contrarary OPINIONS who are clearly NOT Trolls

And Trolls who deliberately spout misleading or out of date or gleaned from the Internet theories or alleged but clearly out of date or incorrect FACTS.

The latter cause deliberate harm.
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Jay / NO5J

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Right or wrong, we ought to know the difference. 

73, Jay - NO5J
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Gopro

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AM Demodulation on Flex-6000 vs TS-2000
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HBg6uc8CNY

comments are welcome,

73,
Bozidar
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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I have received a few offline requests to close this post as it has veered off the topic from the initial idea request after it was thoroughly debated.  Everyone needs to relax and remember that this is a hobby and hobbies are supposed to have fun.  I recommend getting on the air and having some fun.  73
(Edited)

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