PGXL January update

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  • Updated 8 months ago
I have emailed Flex sales with questions about the PGXL orders weeks ago and have never received a reply. The last Flex update I saw was in early December.  Would flex please update us on the status?  

Thanks,
Burch K4QXX
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Burch - K4QXX

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Posted 9 months ago

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dan flynn

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Burch,
I'm still waiting on an email reply sent 11/12/18 from sales &  cc'ed Matt Youngblood with the same question. 
Regards,  Dan ww3n
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Burch - K4QXX

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It is frustrating.  They tell you to not call but to email and then don't respond to emails.  You'd think sales would respond but I have had no luck. 
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Michael Coslo

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Strange - I've always gotten quick responses from Flex.
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David-N5PSM

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I agree.   I do not feel that I am important to Flex Radio systems.
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Volker Geith

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Also wrote to sales but no answer.

73

Volker
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dan flynn

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Since we have all engaged Flex in a monetary contract isn't it reasonable to expect a (timely) reply. 
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David-N5PSM

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Dan, I agree with your observation.
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mikeatthebeach .

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Well the PGXL is made by a third party
So when FRS get more of them they
Will inform people
Best to call sales for info
73 Mike
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Richard

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Those of us that bought or at least put money down in Orlando 2017 were told that we were part of the 1st Production run of 100 to 113 units.  As of today I am still awaiting that "magical" email that notifies me that they are ready to ship a unit to me.   Doing the math, seems to me that with the message "that they are shipping" the PGXL and the fact I have heard nothing about shipping my unit gives me the idea that things are very slow.  Keeping my fingers crossed and hope that I
hear something before this years Orlando Show.....

FYI... I have sent emails and have heard back but just "soon" is the basic answer.....

73's
Dick  - N4RWG
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K5UFO

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FWIW  Placed order on 12/4/17 for a PGXL. Since seeing some movement on backorders, I thought I would inquire.  Sent same question to "sales@flexradio.com" on 1/8/19 and followed up on 1/16/19.  No reply from anyone as yet.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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What would this forum be without its annual January Whining about "WHEN WILL IT GET THERE" Session....

I could say that patience is a virtue but that would take all the fun out of reading people complaining about waiting for new Radios, Amps, and new Software releases over the past 6+ years

If you bother to look back into the archives, it seems that every January there is a huge outcry about something or another being late according to expectations.

But when you get around Dayton time (when things are usually delivered  - hint, hint) you will see a huge increase in support questions relating to all the new stuff being delivered.

Yes.. I can sympathize with all of you that have deposits outstanding BUT.. getting things right on new products takes time and usually takes much longer than the best guesses of the engineers because unexpected gremlins always take longer to fix...

There are PGXL out there.. some are being delivered to non Alpha testers- but the factory build has limitations and it will take time to fulfill the large backlog of orders especially since every unit needs to be bench tested before shipping.  - My best guess is that Flex is doing everything possible to get you your product as they only make money when they deliver. 

Whining about it wont make it happen faster.- but its fun to read the whines...which by the way are much milder this year than it prior years...


Within limits of the NDA, V3 software is in ALPHA-  Delivery times are impossible to guess until most every bug has been found and squashed.   Again when inventing something that no one has ever done before, it always takes much longer than the engineers think it will.


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David-N5PSM

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Howard, Respectfully,      I do not believe you.   At the rate of PXGL reservations to deliveries I looks to me as if the  are only getting further behind and that would also explain the silence. 1000.00 deposit and nothing to show for it except .......promises?
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Burch - K4QXX

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Howard, I was not "whining" when I posted this question.  Flex has said the best way to communicate with them was through email.  They encourage you not to call on the phone, but to email  So I emailed a question regarding my order and never heard from them.  If that is "whining", then I guess I am a whiner. 

I understand that the amp will get here when it gets here.  I have another amp so I'm not really in a hurry for it but it would be nice if Flex would at least answer emails.  I have been a Flex owner since the original 1000 and have owned 7 Flex radios over the years.  I have always gotten timely responses from them over the years when I have reached out to them until recently.  I understand they are extremely busy but for the sales department not to get back to a customer or potential customer doesn't make sense to me.  I guess it is because I am a "whiner".

Burch
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dan flynn

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Howard,

The Ability of an organization to attract and retain customers is vital to its success.  A company works very hard to build up customer loyalty when there are several vendors available.    Loyalty is shaped by positive experiences of the purchase.  Loyalty factors that contribute to the experience are convenience, availability of the product, delivery, and the return policy.  If a company finds themself in a jam with their customers delivery they need to be out ahead of the problem communicating with their customers to keep that loyalty.   There was an expectation with the picture of the van with all PGXL boxes that inventory wasn’t an issue.  Specifically In my case there was a phone call  I had with Matt Youngblood about  a delayed delivery of the amp and I was trying to coordinate delivery time with when to take my family on vacation in the summer of 2017. I moved my vacation date to accommodate estimated delivery. Well that was a useless exercise .    As an engineer of 30 yrs I have been in the horrible place once or twice early in my career of blowing schedule.   It’s an ass whipping to be sure until it’s resolved.  I’ve also been on the plus side bringing in  $100M products in on time and under budget...that feels good... I also know it’s hard to get ride of underperforming people in a family business.  Anyway, I do agree with others that the unit earmarked for me was probably given to some DX group, or some ARRL elected officer, big name in radio, etc. for marketing purposes.  I don’t think anyone here is really whining .  A quick email giving me a heads up and I will all go back to guarding  from the spouse the balance of the funds..  My finally comment.. come clean and tell the truth.. BTW Howard did I read somewhere you have two PGXL amps?


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Bill -VA3WTB

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I am sure they are very busy, and will contact all of you or post here when they have time. But to say they are hiding something is just silly.
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Burch, to clarify, our sales department does not ignore emails. I am not sure what happened to your email but you should try again.

Dan, each amplifier has shipped in the reservation sequence we we have not given preferences.

FlexRadio paid for but did not do the original design of Power Genius XL. We have been heavily involved post initial production from an engineering standpoint in hardening the design and upgrading the fielded units to meet our quality standards. All new inventory is being cycled back through the factory to receive all ECOs before shipment to customers. We started receiving new shipments this week as I stated earlier.

Gerald
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bobby

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Once they have your money you go to the bottom of the list, otherwise it wouldnt have taken 2 years to deliver some of the orders I thought there were laws about that from the federal trade commission, oops never mind government shutdown ...
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Bobby, down payments are fully refundable at any time. We have had a few along the way but not that many. Thanks to all who have remained patient. It is pretty embarrassing to us and very expensive for it to take this long.

The government shutdown seems to added about 1 week to transit time. The pallet sat in NY for about that long.

Gerald
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mikeatthebeach .

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My PGXL is fully paid for long ago
Been waiting almost 2 years ( 21 months )
It will be ready when it is ready
73 Mike
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KF4HR

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While I champion Flex's stance on making sure the product is 100% before it ships, I can't help but wonder why it has taken this long, especially with two companies involved in the creation of this product.  We're not waiting on a new version of the Space Shuttle or an electric car, just an HF amplifier.

I have no doubt FRS realizes what they're risking by this long production delay.  Technology of competing companies are not standing still; the soon to be released Version 2 of the SPE 1.3K an 1.5K HF amplifiers are good examples. 
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WW1SS - Steve

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I for one would not wait 2 years for an amp. Life is too short especially when there are other alternatives. I Love my Elecraft Amp. Delays with the amp, Delays with the new 6 series radios, Maestro delays, Software bugs not getting fixed, Smartlink server issues on and off see a pattern here. Been asking for NB fix for 3 years now. I still like the Flex.

How about an official word from Flex on this amp delay.

Ok I'm ready to get bashed here for my comments.
(Edited)
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mikeatthebeach .

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Yes
Another competitive Company has a
Pair of 1K80 devices prototype in development
So that means there will be more competition
To come !
73 Mike
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Steve, No problems with your comments. not all are fair,,but it is what it is. This is all part of being, or staying with  Flex, we can all chose. 

One reason many people are still waiting for their amp and not jumping ship is because the PGXL is not like most other amps, it is made to a higher standard then most and can do things others just can't.
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KF4HR

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... and can do things others just can't.

Bill can you elaborate on this?

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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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I can give you a few obvious examples

... the PGXL control panel is totally integrated into SSDR...

In addition to easier local operation, this makes remote operation of the PGXL and SSDR seamless so do not need a VPN to remotely control the AMP.


The PGXL will run SO2R seamlessly with the 6000 series completely eliminating the need for a second amp and/or second radio
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KF4HR

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Thanks for the reply Howard.  I have little interest in Contesting so the PG-XL Control Panel integration with SSDR is my main interest.  Although comparing prices with the SPE 1.5k V2, I'm weighing whether the SSDR integration feature is worth an extra $2k.
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Tim - G7GFW / F4VQP

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I have to chip in. I am nobody special, except to my wife, dog and 3 cats, I have emailed Flex Sales on several occasions over the last 8 weeks and have always had a response within 24 hours, in fact on some occasions, within minutes when our time zones coincide.

My queries were for a product of half the value of a PG amp and I was made to feel that Flex wanted my business and cared that I got exactly what I wanted.
Tim


(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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David, you may think Flex is not telling the truth, up to you. They have begun shipping to all customers.
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WW1SS - Steve

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How do you know. They have not responded. Do you work for Flex? Do you have insider info??
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Craig Williams

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Really getting tired of filthy rich Hams, who gave a company $7,000.00 for a product that was not even designed yet alone built, whining about where their Amp is.

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Burch - K4QXX

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And what does it help when you add to the conversation about "getting tired of filthy rich hams"?  Does that help us in using our radios?

My only point is when I contact a business, especially the sales team, it would be nice to get a response.  Nothing more, nothing less.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Burch, this is very unusual for this to happen. It is something that customers are not used to. And Flex could have been doing a better job at communicating.

I can only offer this,,things must be crazy there right now and all hands on deck. I think they have sacrificed customer communications for getting products out the door. That is a problem with such a small company.
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Burch - K4QXX

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Bill, you are probably right.  The only reason I posted this was because every month or so, flex puts out a communication about the status of the amp.  There hasn't been an update in almost 2 months.  I usually always get a email back when I contact flex. I have been a flex customer since day one and operated a Flex-1000 until the Flex-5000 came out.

When I didn't get a response,  I thought I would post here. I will be out of town a lot the next few months and was hoping to get an update or window on where they were with orders in case I am out of town.  I will get the amp when it gets here.  That wasn't the issue.  I am not really in a hurry as I have another amp.  Apparently if you post and ask for an update, you are considered whiner.  That's OK, I have been called much worse.

And as for being "filthy rich", I'm not rich but I have money.  Can't take it with you.  
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I have wondered about Gerald's up dates as well, he must be bogged down. But I bet things are further ahead then they were from his last one..
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KF4HR

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$7,000 hardly constitutes a "filthy rich" purchase. 
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HCampbell WB4IVF

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One thing we should keep in mind that the long slippage last year was due to the discovery of the 6M filter problems under high duty cycle conditions, and Flex’s decision to step up and redesign/retrofit the 6M filter assemblies in all previously shipped amps and stop shipping new amps while new filter assemblies were redesigned, parts ordered/received, tested, etc.  My amp was one of the last shipped before the problem was discovered, and it was updated this month.   

The last update came out mid-December, and giving them a bit of slack due to Christmas holidays, I’d say they are still on schedule with monthly updates. 

Howard
(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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Howard I read through all the comments. People can take a lot of delays if they are communicated with, further a $1000 deposit (and a few that paid the full amount) really have earned a response. I get $1.5% on deposits over two years that would buy you a $30 cup of coffee. Delays happen thus I would expect Flex refund the interest the deposit would have earned? Sound fair? Someone said you have two Flex amps?  Is that true? I wonder how many would have put down a deposit knowing there would be a 2 year delay? And the tuner, is that another 2 years out?
It does look like a great amp.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Burt


Time is also money for vendors.. they have to still pay staff, rent, utilities and taxes when things are delayed.... Using your logic customers should be paying Flex for their extra costs for the delays... especially since the delays in this case look like a customs shutdown issue...
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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I guess many of you did not bother to follow up on my suggestion to look at the archives for the annual January Whining Sessions..


Flex is ALMOST ALWAYS LATE on every new product.  Whining usually reaches a crescendo every January and usually subsides by Dayton when products magically get delivered. Whining does not get anything delivered sooner Responding to the whining takes away resources needed to finish the products.


Flex is a TINY company with Limited Resources trying to deliver bleeding edge products.  When they finally do get it right their products invariably are much better than the competition or you would not be wanting them.


I too am an Engineer.. I have done numerous bleeding edge projects.  They all took much longer than our worst estimates because we were inventing things that had never been done before so it was impossible to predict problems until after they had arisen. 

I have also managed $100MM projects.  Surprisingly those are much easier to bring in on time and under budget.. why? Because they invariably are not bleeding edge and you have the financial resources to throw at the problems as they arise.  The exception on $100MM projects is when you have a government client, then the incompetence of the client staff and the flurry of idiotic change orders invariably cause the project costs to soar way over budget and take forever  (all governments around the world are the same)


No I do not have 2 PGXL yet.. I am currently stuck with a SPE 2K_FA which is NOT as powerful as the PGXL nor will it ever be as well integrated into SSDR as the PGXL.


Final Comment:  Read the archives.. there is always Self righteous Whining about Flex deliveries and lack of constant communication...

Whining does not make it happen sooner.  But heck if it makes your feel better to kvetch this is the place to do it..
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Burt Fisher

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So "whining" is defined by you as asking about their amplifier after  paying a $1000 deposit two years ago? I used to repair TV's and computers, if I saw I was going to miss the repair date I called them BEFORE that date. Note: I am on the waiting list but I did not pay a deposit. 
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Whining is what I read on this thread... and many similar threads on this forum EVERY January when something does not arrive as expected..


'Remember back in 2012.. IIRC we put down $1000 each on a 6000 and it took 18+ months to arrive.. the Whines were much more toxic then


The point I was making is that the Whiners seem to come out of the closet every January with higher or lower toxicity depending on the product..  Nothing they complain about has any effect on deliveries except perhaps slowing them down due to the fact that Flex wastes time responding to them which would be better served by getting the product out


I really wish people would read the archives
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David-N5PSM

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There is a clear difference between forum whining and forum complaining.   This is not whining.  This is not un-justified.  This is not un-earned.
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Burch - K4QXX

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I think part of the problem is Flex has always spoiled us with great communication and great customer service in the past.  Now most of the communication is gone except for a post here and there from Matt.  I wish Tim was still on the community as I would ask him to close this topic.  Had no idea asking this question would cause so many people to get bent out of shape and cause the name calling.  I'm sorry I posted the question.   
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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I sincerely apologize for the lack of communication. We have been awaiting new shipments from the factory that were delayed through customs - we assume due to the government shutdown. We did receive the first pallet of amps yesterday that will need to complete and pass incoming inspection before shipment. Additional units are in transit to Austin. Hopefully, the shutdown won't last much longer and affect customers.

Shipments of our backlog are dependent on incoming product run rate from the factory. FlexRadio has to date born the cost of all of field upgrades, which have now been completed. No one is more frustrated by the delay than we are. We are making progress and the amps in the field are working well. Thanks to those of you who have been so patient. 

73, Gerald
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WW1SS - Steve

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Still does not answer his question?? Basic math that is you were between 40 and 75 and they had 113 units you would get one. Sounds like yours was shipped elsewhere.
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Richard

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Gerald,  

No my question has not been answered.  My assumption and told by FRS people, is that my number was initially at 30 then told at 70, and there was a total of 113 built in the initial Production Run that I would be getting one of those after rework and intense testing.  From what I am reading is that FRS has in fact reworked some and has stopped reworking/shipping any more left in the first batch.  My assumption working on many NPR's that the rework of those has stopped and they have been moved to the DE "Bone Pile". 

As another Orlando Hamfest is upon us I truly believe that any and all of us that did order at that time and was to be covered under the first Production Run, be contacted via a Private Email and be informed of the Shipping Date that they should expect.  You have a Shipment that arrived,  your Team is Inspecting and Testing them so there should be known data.   What say to be proactive to those that have invested so early in the process?

And to those that think this is "whining" have no idea what drives competition and Choices.

Richard - N4RWG
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Burt Fisher

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You are not whining, but even  if you were $1000 allows you to plus it was insulting to call anyone in this matter, whining.
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Richard,

We are cycling the new inventory we had in house back through the factory in Montenegro. That means we ship them back, they rework to final ECO standards, burn in and test, ship back to us, and we do incoming inspection before shipment.This cycle has begun but not long enough to establish a run rate that I am confident of communicating.

You were never at #30 based on a look at the database. I do agree that it would be good for us to be proactive with those of you who ordered very early. I would like to do that as soon as I am confident of what we are getting consistently from the factory. We got our first new shipment this week so that is not enough to establish a run rate yet.

I sincerely apologize that we have not been able to provide better information. 

To everyone, please refrain from personal comments or attacks back and forth. 

73,
Gerald
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Richard

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Gerald...   I do appreciate the update and Production to Shipping Flow Update.  Yes the "30" given to me at Orlando in '17 was thought to be a "wild guess" by FRS at the time but later when 70 was mentioned was a more realistic number.   Still within the first Production Run Numbers.   As always us Die Hard Flex Owners will stand By until you are ready to ship.

Again TNX for bearing with us.

Richard - N4RWG
(Edited)
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bobby

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From customs? I thought these were American Made, not so good!
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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We have communicated from the beginning that this is an OEM partnership with 4O3A in Montenegro. 
Gerald
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bahillen

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Your comments are very comforting and helpful to understand the situation. One pararagraph every few weeks would stabilize the waiting users.

By the way, I have no amp to use in the mean time. 100 watts on 160 m is it. Tough but my 6600 has been great for chasing on FT8 and CW at the same time with 30 foot wire antennas. BUT it’s a hobby.

Love your radios.

73
Bill W9JJB
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bobby

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Everyone also remember even though maybe 120 units are received (guesstimate) and checked out verified and shipped a certain percentage of the checked out units must be held back probably 12 (again guesstimate) in case some are damaged during shipping or delivery or are doa, or do not function correctly on arrival (shades of the M line release come to mind) so this is why its so hard to predict a flow rate based upon a single received shipment.