N1mmplus+1.6+set+up

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Having some issues setting n1nmplus up with 1.6. In previous version I had cat working and could have a and b slices in so2v mode and freqs wouldvchange and i had two bandmaps open with spots into both.

Is there a new tutorial for set up with 1.6 available?

With 1.6 in so2v mode slice b is not being read. In so2r mode it just slaves slice b second radio to slice a freq. Clearly i have set it up wrong in either mode.

Any help available to get it sorted please - or maybe i need to read the new cat and dax sections a second time?

Cheers

Steve gw0gei gw9J
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Steve Jones

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Posted 4 years ago

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Steve Gw0gei

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I had to run in rsgb afs contest this afternoon with just one vfo.

For a contest related upgrade this 1.6 has now taken my contesting a few steps backwards. Are there any alpha testers who use n1mmplus and can advise what I am missing or point me in the direction of a related help article that I can follow? If I am not clear how this auto tx following feature needs to be set up in n1mmplus, despite having read the new dax and cat guidance prior to the release, its going to be difficult to sort out the issue and get things back on track.


thanks in anticipation

Steve gw0gei / gw9j  

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Phil m0vse

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I played with S02R for todays AFS. I simply added another CAT port for the second slice and added a second rig in N1MM. This then gives 2 log entry windows, one for each slice and as soon as you click on band section of the entry window, the slice attached to it gets TX focus. I'm not sure if this is the 'proper' way to do it but it worked for me. I'm not in front of N1MM+ now but I can try to do some screenshots in the morning. 
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Eduardo Carvalho - KC8R

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Official Response
Guys,

I was able to get N1MM+ with the 6300 and the new CAT. I was also struggling, since before the SO2V worked perfect and switched the TX. The trick is below:

1. Set a new CAT port for slice B
2. Select SO2R (instead of SO2V)
3. Make sure the radio numbers are different

N1MM should get all set up, including bandmap.

The only problem I have now is the TX focus, there is not really an easy way to change the TX. 

Does anyone know how to switch the TX focus?

Eduardo, KC8R
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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use the link in the SO2R setup doc
http://www.flexradio.com/downloads/so2r-mode-with-n1mm-for-the-flex-6700-how-to-guide-pdf/
switching is handled by the Open Two Radio Switching Protocol built into SmartSDR CAT.  works great.
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Barry N1EU

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Sorry, but it's ridiculous to have to emulate a second radio and second CAT port just to get SO2V.  Yeah, this is broke.  SO2V doesn't work in N1MM.  As soon as you open a B slice, the second VFO in N1MM should track that B slice and it doesn't.  I have no idea if this is an issue with the N1MM software or the Flex software.

Barry N1EU
(Edited)
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Barry It sounds like you are frustrated, change can be tough. In my opinion SSDR is cutting new territory in method and functionality.  What was SO2V IMO is invalid anymore because your not really dealing with a VFO.   It only goes to say that N1MM and other loggers will need to adapt to a totally new way of thinking.  Using the SO2R features in SSDR is superior in many ways than a simple SO2V setup in a lot of respects.  By choosing SO2R in N1MM, with a 6300 or 6500 you are SO2R but with mute on both slices on TX, and that, many contesters will tell you is the definition of SO2V.  I don't necessarily think there is anything ridiculous about this.. its just a work around for a new way of thinking.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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SO2V is not currently supported.  
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Steve Jones

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Yes thanks both - I still cant get so2v to work with 1.6 but I have now got so2r to work with some work on cat and slices and otsr. It didn't work until I came out of n1mmplus and went back in - it is now working with slice b as radio 2 and the ctrl and right arrow now does what so2v used to do ie move the rx focus and the tx from radio 1 to radio 2 or slice a to slice 2 on my 6500.

I will be doing some more testing with it tomorrow as I have set up winkey port but havnt yet tested the cw side to see if I have got it correct. Once that is sorted I will turn again to my broken dax driver issue:-(

Thanks both for your comments - have ukei group cw contest coming up as well as some vhf ones so I need to get things running again with n1mmplus and sort out the dvk side too.

73

Steve gw0gei / gw9j

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Phil m0vse

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Mike Hoing

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The document is for the 6700 are there going to be any differences with the 6500 knowing we are less one SCU. I don't use N1MM + all that much but know I need to get my rate up. Just want to get it right the first time to fight off the temptation to stay where I am

Mike
N9DFD
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Mike the 6500 will be essentially SO2V if you setup like the SO2R instructions lay out.  you wont be FDX so both slices will mute when you tx and you wont need to worry about isolation if just using 1 radio.  otherwise it will be essentially identical, in all respects of setup and operation.
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Steve Jones

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Thanks Phil - yes I read all the help guides and installation notes the week before the release. I have n1mmplus working again now in so2r mode but could not get so2v to work. I have also now got the winkey working ok which is an improvement. I just need to put a ticket in now to sort out the dax driver issues which I am going round in circles with despite having followed the advice and installation instructions to the letter. Frustrating but hopefully it will be worth it in the end. I need dax working again so I can re set up wsjt for 4m and 6m ms and I want to start playing a bit more on hf with newer data modes, plus rtty / psk for the rsgb 80m contests.

73

Steve gw0gei /gw9j

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Eduardo Carvalho - KC8R

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Phil,

Thank you for pointing us to the document. I was able to get everything working correctly, including the TX focus change, which works as Barry had mentioned (CTRL + arrow left/right). 

The last piece that I noticed is that changing the RX focus mutes the other slice. Does anyone know how to keep N1MM from muting the non-active slice? That would allow us to listen to both slices for the perfect time to TX, or go back to the calling frequency. 

Eduardo, KC8R
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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"~" key
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Eduardo Carvalho - KC8R

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Chris,

Thank you for the reply. This worked correctly. Even distributes the audio balance on the headphones, this is awesome.

Eduardo, KC8R
(Edited)
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Guys, set it up as an SO2R station. Use OTSRP for the switching.  You wont have full duplex, but you will be functionally SO2V.  this will work on all 6000 models, and on a 6700 you can enable full duplex for full blown SO2R.  It works quite well.  use the ~ key to unmute both slices and Pause/break to switch between.,
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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we discovered in testing the SO2V selection doesn't work as advertised but selecting SO2R functionally accomplishes this on a 6300 and 6500.  works fine. call it.. SO2V on steroids.
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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(Edited)
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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Smart cat with OTSRP port, Com ports for both slices and a winkeyer (plus one I was testing with).
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Eduardo Carvalho - KC8R

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Looks like we have all the answers and all functionality we used to have.

Thank you all for the assistance.

I think it would be good if Flex could update the HOWTO document to reflect some of the items discussed here and how to make it work for non-6700 users. If you guys update it, please include Chris' tip for unmuting slices with "~".

73,
Eduardo, KC8R
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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That's great news Eduardo.  I did ask to have this "SO2V Plus" (r) (tm) :-)  added to the docs or release notes during alpha but they have been working real hard to get 1.6 out/maestro.. etc.  we will get there eventually. Really this isn't a flex issue its an N1MM functionality issue and using OTSRP commands rather than basic SO2V switching.  Flex is co-operating with the loggers developers and with time I think it will be more intuitive.  In the meantime I was thinking of putting up a resource website for flex contesting, I have a domain registered and need to get some documentation together to kind of make a one stop shop for contest related flex material.  When I am ready to take it live I will probably solicit for documents and feedback from folks so we have a good resource page. 
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Eduardo Carvalho - KC8R

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Chris,

Sounds good. Let me know if you need assistance. I can try to add to the stuff that is there already from a 6300 perspective. My info on QRZ is up to date, feel free to contact me.

I think Flex used one of my responses once for a HOWTO. It would be nice to contribute.

On another note, I am glad they added the winkey emulation, CWX is OK, but did not integrate 100% and you could not control speed.

Eduardo, KC8R
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Phil m0vse

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I have a couple of observations. On my 6500, I can do "proper" S02R by using a separate receive antenna connected to RXA and with FDX enabled, it doesn't then mute the "other" slice while I am transmitting. Obviously if I try to transmit and receive on the same antenna then it does.

When I select one slice in N1MM+, it mutes the inactive slice and sets the audio "PAN" to the centre which is a little annoying as I want one slice in the left and one in the right. I was hoping that this was stored in the S02R_TX1/TX2 Transmit profiles but it doesn't appear to be? The ~ key doesn't seem to do anything when I press it?

Also, I can't see a way in SO2R mode to operate RUN and S&P on the same band (S02V) as when I try, N1MM tells me "Can not set both radios to the same band!" I was hoping to use this for the upcoming RSGB 80M CC contests but I seem to be missing something?

This is all quite new to me as I have never operated S02R/S02V before so the above may be what people expect but it seems a bit strange to me?
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Barry N1EU

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Independent of the SO2V/SO2R issue/question, please consider whether or not there is still a fundamental issue with vfoB/sliceB functionality under N1MM Logger+ that will potentially affect everyone.  I'm seeing mixed results, with Logger+ sometimes seeming to recognize vfoB/sliceB and sometimes ignoring it. I do have SO2V checked in the port configurer.  To wit:

1. If I open slice B and enable TX so that I'm in "split" mode, the following does not occur like on every other radio:
       a. the Logger+ entry box does not show the red "SPLIT" indicator
       b. the vfoA bandmap doesn't show the red offset TX indicator
       c. a spot added to the bandmap lacks the split information

2. However, if I click on a QSX (split) spot on the vfoA bandmap that somebody else has spotted, SSDR does correctly open a vfoB/sliceB on the qsx freq and assign TX to that slice, the red SPLIT indicator appears on the vfoA entry box and the red indicator appears on the vfoA bandmap.

Thoughts about 1 above???  Maybe I'm missing something - if so, help me out.  But otherwise, split operation during a contest is something that every basic contester is likely to encounter, especially on 75M and 40M ssb dx contests and has nothing to do with SO2R.

Barry N1EU
(Edited)
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Ben Morris

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Hi Barry,

I had the same issue myself regarding just simple split operation.  I ran across this in SSB mode and also in CW.  What was happening to me was on CW, N1MM was not showing split but my VFO TX on B was correct.  My main problem was on SSB and using a WAV file to call the DX in split mode, it would revert back to VFO A as soon as I hit the F key and I would get chastised by the KC cops.  I noticed that in this case N1MM did not show "Split".  I read on the N1MM web site, that using CTRL+S will toggle the logger as well as your Flex into Split mode.  It is defaulted to split 5 up when you do this.  You then can tune VFO B (Slice B) to your desired frequency to TX. I did his with the rig in SOV1 without having to add another CAT port for the radio.  I hope that helps.  I also felt this should be a simple process and its just a little different way to do it.

Ben Morris K4EDI
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Barry N1EU

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Thanks Ben!  I tried this and I understand - you need to create the second slice with ctrl+S from Logger; don't create the slice from within SSDR.  I was hoping this might be a work-around for starting up SO2V but it doesn't work.  So Split works but SO2V doesn't, got it.

Barry N1EU
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Barry N1EU

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Here's a related thread:  https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/cat-1-6-17-interface-when-operating-split-not-repor...

some of us have no need for all those slices in a contest, just a vfoA and vfoB, but we lost that simplicity with v1.6
(Edited)
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Phil m0vse

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After quite a bit of playing, I have discovered that on a UK keyboard, the single quote key ( ' ) mutes/un-mutes the inactive slice and pans them hard left/right not the tilde ~ or backtick ` as is suggested on the N1MM documentation. Hopefully this will help somebody else?

Now I just need to find how to make N1MM let me select the same band on both radios. I understand that for traditional radios, it is a safety feature but I don't think it is really an issue with the flex (as long as the rx antenna is a reasonable distance from the tx one)
(Edited)
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Barry N1EU

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I exchanged emails with one of the principal N1MM developers.  They worked with Flex on the v1.6 release.  They raised a flag about v1.6's impact on SO2V but evidently Flex engineers were focused on other v1.6 changes.  

Sorry Chris, at this point I simply am not willing to buy: "In short, Its the loggers that need to adapt to the Flex features, rather than flex castrating its capabilities to downward support legacy options."

Barry N1EU
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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that's your opinion choice Barry, I think that in the end we are striving for the same thing, to have the loggers work properly and be intuitive.  how we get to that point with this architecture is negotiable.. Ill do my best to keep helping and adding feedback and I am sure you will do the same.  We will get there..
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Barry N1EU

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Agreed Chris!  Unfortunately not much we can do to push either side  ;-)
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Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

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I am a bit more optimistic.. Barry can I have your direct email?  If possible I want to compare notes with you on the functionality differences in your experience of 1.5 vs 1.6 vs say a K3 with sub.  We all have different operating styles, and I have only used SO2V when doing a single band at a multi or if I am SOSB in the past.  I am assuming your definition is a single band SO2V (like) setup..?  I tried it under 1.5 and I seem to recall it not working quite right there as well..  Ill have to dig up my notes.  but if you could do me a favor and fire me over your specific use vs what was working in 1.5 vs what you see as broken in 1.6 it would help me a lot.  n6wm <at> largeradio.org   Thanks alot.. for instance I notices that clicking in the band map spawned a 3rd slice instance.. etc.
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Barry N1EU

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Chris, I'm barry <dot> n1eu <at> gmail <dot> com and happy to correspond.  We can take the conversation off-line.  I am sending you an email now.
(Edited)
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Steve Gw0gei

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All noted and yes I can still have two slices open on Hf or on 4m tvtr band with ssdr and n1mmplus does allow me to work s and p on second slice with both rx enabled and the Ctrl and r a row function works when I want to move the tx onto the second slice to work a mult or spot - on tx it mutes and protects both rx slices so that is the so2v solution for now, using so2r selection in n1mmplus.

Only thing not working for me still is dax corrupted driver, which I am working on directly with flex engineer after I put a help desk ticket in. At least in the meantime I can continue to use the radio and contest with it on cw and phone - it's only digi modes and dvk that I need dax working for.

Will give it all a shake out in ukei dx cw contest this coming weekend all being well
73 Steve gw0gei / gw9J
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Eduardo Carvalho - KC8R

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Hello,

Anyone else having problems with the "~" key not performing the stereo function when working with SO2R setup?

Regards,

Eduardo Carvalho, KC8R
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Phil m0vse

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It does seem to be keyboard layout dependant. I thought that it was the ` key on US keyboards?

Phil
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Eduardo Carvalho - KC8R

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Thanks Phil, I got it working. I was selecting SO2V instead of SO2R... my mistake.

73,

Eduardo - KC8R