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Maestro Poor Wifi Performance

AE0MW
AE0MW Member ✭✭
First, let me say that I've read, and understand, Steve's post about WiFi. I'm running a well regarded Asus RT-AC68U router with current firmware and my Maestro is approximately 8' away from it through a single sheet of drywall.

My Maestro has very poor WiFi performance. It's dropping packets and subject to semi-frequent dropouts of audio.

The Maestro network screen reports "Poor" quality connection, spikes of high latency, and several lost packets.

I can set my Surface Pro3 on the desk literally touching the Maestro, and it performs with what SmartSDR calls "Excellent" connection, a high of 16ms latency, few spikes, 0 dropped packets and no audio cutouts. Even when I open 4 panadapters and 4 receive slices in SmartSDR it's performance never deteriorates.

Of interesting note is a severe discrepancy in the diagnostic screens between the 2 devices. The SP3 reports a "Remote RX Rate" of 77 kbps where the Maestro reports a "Total RX Rate" of 1160 kbps. Are these the same metric? 77 kbps seems awfully low for 4 panadapters and Rx streams.

Are there any further diagnostics built into the Maestro that would assist in troubleshooting? Any ideas?
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Comments

  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited February 2018
  • AE0MW
    AE0MW Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    There was a reply before I realized I forgot to add my screenshots, here they are.


    image

    image
  • AE0MW
    AE0MW Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    With a day or two of setup, probably. I'll look into it tonight after work. It's not likely a network issue, I use SmartSDR over WiFi all the time all over my house with no issues.

    The ipref/jpref combo looks neat though, I will probably run it anyway.


  • Steve-N5AC
    Steve-N5AC Community Manager admin
    edited December 2016
    Today SmartSDR only reports the remote audio rate, not the total TX/RX rate.
  • Burch - K4QXX
    Burch - K4QXX Member ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    I am starting to think the Maestro doesn't like Asus routers (at least certain ones).  I have a less than a year old Asus router (can't remember the model # as I am at work).  When I bought it, it was the top of the line Asus router that was high with the gaming community.  I paid almost $300 for it and it is really fast.  I can run SSDR on my 7 year old laptop and get 0 dropped packets.  I can also run SSDR through Parallels with Windows 10 on my Macbook pro and get 0 dropped packets.  I used my Macbook on Sunday for several hours operating SSDR on my porch.  It ran flawlessly on the Asus router at 5GHZ.

    When I got my Maestro on Monday, I can't use it on my Asus router or I get tons of audio drops and packet loss like you do.  I ended up using an old Netgear R6300 and configured it as an Access Point and plugged it into a port on my Asus router.  Now my Maestro runs perfectly with the 5GHZ netgear access point.  I have no idea why the Maestro won't run on the new Asus.

    Burch
  • Cal  N3CAL
    Cal N3CAL Member ✭✭
    edited July 2018

    @ Michael (AE0MW),

    you stated:  "I can set my Surface Pro3 on the desk literally touching the Maestro"

    Your issue may be your Surface Pro 3 is too close to the MAESTRO.  Running two WIFI devices in close proximity to each other will definitely cause issues with slow and dropped packets.  I've seen it happen with my laptop WIFI and my Cell phone with WIFI turned on nearby.   Try running the MAESTRO alone without another WIFI device close by and compare results. 

    Cal/N3CAL  

     

  • AE0MW
    AE0MW Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    The SP3 was for troubleshooting. I didn't even go get it until the Maestro was having problems.
  • Jim Gilliam
    Jim Gilliam Member ✭✭
    edited May 2016
    Have you tried putting the Maestro right next to the router? If it still is poor I would suspect your router has it in for Flex!
  • Burch - K4QXX
    Burch - K4QXX Member ✭✭
    edited May 2016
    I had my Maestro within 4 feet on my Asus router and still had tons of audio dropouts and packet loss.  Didn't matter if the Maestro was right next to the router or on the other side of the house.  My Maestro just doesn't like my Asus router which I don't understand.  The Maestro works perfect on my old Netgear router.
  • Dudley-WA5QPZ
    Dudley-WA5QPZ Inactive Employee
    edited March 2018
    How do you have the radio connected to your network?    Is it directly connected to your router?   Also if you open Task manager -> Additional details -> Performance tab -> Ethernet or wireless ,  you will graphically see the steady stream of the data through your network.   Running the radio from your Windows pad even,  you should not see a break in the streams to and from the radio..  You can turn off panapters and DAX and SmartCAT to observe the performance of the network connection .  Any drops in that graph is indicating that something is causing resets in the throughput.   When wireless ,  clashes with other wireless devices and access points will disrupt the 2.4 GHz,  every thing is there,  if you can use the 5 GHz you will have a lot less conflicts and with a 802.11AC router, faster connections.. 
  • AE0MW
    AE0MW Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Dudley I don't think you understand my issue.

    The radio is connected via ethernet, and it works just fine. It works with my "Shack" computer (also ethernet) and it works with my Surface Pro 3 (WiFi), it works with my iPad (WiFi), and it works with my Laptop (WiFi). None of those devices experience any packet loss, stuttering or performance problems. If works with the Maestro if I connect it via ethernet.

    The only thing not working properly is the Maestro over WiFi. If there is a way for me to open Task Manager and view the performance using the Maestro I'd be happy to do so, just tell me how to get to it.

    -Mike
  • k3Tim
    k3Tim Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    I am seeing some drop outs (0.08%) when using a Linksys WRT-1900AC. The 6500 is plugged directly to the router and all other wireless devices are turned off. This is on the 5Ghz band which is wide open here. The data rate is 4000kbps which is slow compared to what the WiFi router should support. The latest firmware is loaded, but there is a hardware version two of the box which is of concern. When only one panadapter is displayed there are no drop outs - data rate is cut in half. I believe there is some setup in the router that is causing this problem.  - reason - Tried to transfer several GB via the WiFI, and it was going to take 10 hours. I cancelled that effort, went to a wired connection and finished in a few minutes.

    I see the router can throttle the speed. It can also setup a connecting device to have higher priority, for example an IP phone. I set the Maestro to have highest priority but need to port numbers used to complete this.

    Can someone kindly let me know the port #'s used by Maestro?

    If I were going to switch WiFi routers, I'd go with the Netgear 7800 as it has Qcom chipsets and they know low power CPU design as well as RF modems.

    For testing the WiFi it was suggested a RaspPi be used. I have the Pi- 3 but not sure it has the 5Ghz band. Can anyone confirm.

    On a positive note - I had intended to run the Maestro via a direct connect to the radio. It is doing this service very well and has exceeded my expectations. 

    _..--
     TiM

  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited February 2018
    All... I have worked in the commercial Wifi business for a while, and I have some school of hard knocks education. As we are finding out, all Wifi connections are not created equal sadly. Just like bluetooth. The Alpha team had some trials with Wifi issues as well, not unlike some of the dialogue we are seeing here. Each Wifi adapter, Laptop, Access Point, and even Maestro are unique. I have no magic answer here, but at least make sure your router has anything to do with B type communication turned off (often seen as BGN). Make sure it is at least GN only. Anything with an A in the designator is for 5Ghz communication (confusing, isn't it). Then, something else we haven't discussed is MIMO (Multiple In Multiple Out) which has to do with Malt-path streams. Better AP's have 2x2 or 3x3 MIMO (more is better). Some laptops have 2x2 MIMO, some more, some less. This doesn't fix the original problems some are seeing sadly. What I can recommend is that you keep all your firmware and drivers up to date. Flex will take care of doing that for the Maestro. Maestro (and SSDR) will really push the limits of your AP. Mike va3mw
  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Tim, I did write up the speed tests on a PI, but you can do the same thing with a hardwired laptop/desktop and a Wifi connected device. What you are trying to do is just see how many streams you can move from wired to wifi.
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    We have a defect logged, #3552 to investigate the reports of packet loss (dropped packets) when using the Ethernet connection on Maestro.
  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited June 2016
    The challenge is not surfing, the challenge is flat out streaming data. There is a significant difference. If you want to 'hear' the difference, try using a VoIP phone wireless on your laptop or iPad (not Skype--Skype does some secret magic stuff--very well). This is why the Wifi VoIP phone handset really never did very well. va3mw
  • AE0MW
    AE0MW Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    This isn't via the Ethernet connection, this is via the WiFi connection.
  • AE0MW
    AE0MW Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I'm not talking about surfing. I use my iPad to control my Flex via K6TU's app, I use SmartSDR on my laptop and Surface. All work 100%. The Maestro does not.
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    We have both connections types covered in two different defect reports.  The wifi report is #3623.

    And no, there isn't any way currently to access the Task Manager or view the network performance metrics on the Maestro.
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited March 2017
    I have entered this problem report into our bug tracker (defect #3623) for additional investigation. Thank you for the defect report.
  • Burch Akin
    Burch Akin Member
    edited February 2018
    Just to update my Asus router model, it is a RT-AC87U.  It was the top rated router from several publications when I bought it less than a year ago.  It runs SSDR from multiple laptops flawlessly on 5GHZ band but is un-usable on the Maestro.

    Burch
  • AE0MW
    AE0MW Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Thanks Tim. I'd be happy to provide any troubleshooting or testing you need.
  • k3Tim
    k3Tim Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Hi Mike,

    Many thanks for your response and the write. I got it now, the Pi bounces the responses via h/w port on the WiFi. I shall test with a Windows 10 box running Cygwin. Iperf installed without problem.
    If I find anything interesting to the group I'll report back.
    _..--
     TiM
  • k3Tim
    k3Tim Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    It turns out there is an Android app that implemented the iperf functionality. That made testing a breze. For the UDP portion this is the 'log':
    OpenSCManager failed - Access is denied. (0x5)[220] local 10.47.134.189 port 5001 connected with 10.47.134.166 port 42462
    [ ID] Interval       Transfer     Bandwidth       Jitter   Lost/Total Datagrams
    [220]  0.0- 1.0 sec  1229 KBytes  10067 Kbits/sec  0.525 ms    0/  856 (0%)
    [220]  1.0- 2.0 sec  1220 KBytes  9996 Kbits/sec   0.567 ms    0/  850 (0%)
    [220]  2.0- 3.0 sec  1222 KBytes  10008 Kbits/sec  0.468 ms    0/  851 (0%)
    [220]  3.0- 4.0 sec  1222 KBytes  10008 Kbits/sec  0.331 ms    0/  851 (0%)
    [220]  4.0- 5.0 sec  1214 KBytes  9949 Kbits/sec   1.185 ms    0/  846 (0%)
    [220]  5.0- 6.0 sec  1227 KBytes  10055 Kbits/sec  0.402 ms    0/  855 (0%)
    [220]  6.0- 7.0 sec  1220 KBytes  9996 Kbits/sec   0.313 ms    0/  850 (0%)
    [220]  7.0- 8.0 sec  1222 KBytes  10008 Kbits/sec  0.595 ms    0/  851 (0%)
    [220]  8.0- 9.0 sec  1220 KBytes  9996 Kbits/sec   0.573 ms    0/  850 (0%)
    [220]  0.0-10.0 sec  12205 KBytes  10009 Kbits/sec 0.720 ms  -1/ 8500 (-0.012%)
    [220]  0.0-10.0 sec  1 datagrams received out-of-order

    That lost / out of order item appears to be a problem - can anyone comment? 
    Tried a second time - results similar except jitter was consistent at 0,3msec

    Thanks for any help.


    Tim  / k3Tim



  • Simon Lewis
    Simon Lewis Member ✭✭
    edited May 2016
    maybe someone from FRS can comment but how does 1.7 handle MTU size and in particular Maestro - some routers have real problems with MTU sizes and this ends up with poor throughput on seemingly good wifi connects - Nick DL/GM4OGI is suffering from poor connectivity since 1.7 as well with dropouts in audio etc on wifi - my system is ok on wired - so has something changed in 1.7 with the handling of network traffic?
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    Nothing changed with 1.7 as far as network behavior.  MTU is handled at the TCP/IP stack level so the application is oblivious to such things.
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    Audio and metering data is contained in the VITA-49 data stream and it is UDP.  If you are dropping these frames or are out of order, they will not be processed.  An occasional dropped UDP packet is not noticeable.  Constant drops will result in temporary audio drops and loss of metering data.
  • Bob  KN4HH
    Bob KN4HH Member ✭✭
    edited May 2016
    I run a Asus RT-AC87R router.  I used wifi analyzer to check signal strength at the location of the Maestro.  It is -20dbm.  I am using 5ghz band and 40 mhz spacing.  There is no other traffic on my channel other than myself.  When the maestro first connects to the Flex, I see all green bars.  In a matter of seconds the performance indicator drops to one red bar.  My internet service is providing 30mb/s download and 6mb/s upload speeds which I have measured.

    Yes, I am the guy that made the comments about the battery pack in removing and replacing having an affect on performance.  While my original statement was true, I now believe that it was not the battery itself but rather the orientation of the maestro during the test.  If i wait long enough (1 minute or less, the same condition reappears [one red bar]) irregardless of the battery installation or charge status.

    Sorry for the rant.  I am at the height of frustration.  I must acknowledge Tim for his professionalism and willingness to discuss the issue with me during a very busy time at the Flex booth on Saturday.  Thanks, Tim.

    I welcome any suggestions that might resolve the condition.  Be patient with me.  Flying my Boeing 767 seems a bit easier at the moment, hi hi.

    Bob, KN4HH
  • Mike va3mw
    Mike va3mw Member ✭✭
    edited June 2016
    Bob ... no rant at all.

    I suspect this is a more of a windows thing than a Flex thing.  After all, it does run on Windows.  :)   We will figure it out.

    Sometimes, flying my Piper PA28 is simpler too.  :)

    73,  Mike va3mw

    p.s.  I am an avionics tech... at least that is what I graduated a long time ago.  I found out that the tech IT world paid better. LOL
  • Bob  KN4HH
    Bob KN4HH Member ✭✭
    edited May 2016
    Mike, thanks so much for your comments. I find it interesting that the router I use (Asus RT-AC87R) receives high marks on the reputable review sites.  However, many of the maestro users, including myself, are reporting issues.
    Is there a way to stress test the router much like the stress test software for networks or perhaps the network analysis applications can pinpoint a poor performing router. 
    I would appreciate any comments on how to evaluate the router before investing more bucks on a hardware solution.

    I would gladly trade hours in the 767 for some quality flying in your Cherokee. 

    73, Bob, KN4HH

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