Maestro delivery date - any news?

  • 1
  • Question
  • Updated 12 months ago
  • Answered
Hi to all,
as waiting for nearly 12 months for delivery of a maestro to Germany, i wonder if anyone elsewhere (or within DL) got his/here maestro lately?
Or does anyone know when you will get your ordered one?

TNX,
Uli DK8NE
Photo of Uli - DK8NE

Uli - DK8NE

  • 11 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes

Posted 1 year ago

  • 1
Photo of Kurt Onvijfdz

Kurt Onvijfdz

  • 21 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Maestro

De Maestro zal half oktober weer leverbaar zijn. De eerste 4 units worden nu getest. Volgende week zullen de eerste Maestro's van de band rollen. SmartSDR is al aangepast voor de nieuw schermen. Één van de nieuwe Maestro's zal over 14 dagen worden aangeboden voor een CE her-certificering.
Dus er kan weer worden besteld in de shop..
Order by Parma.com
73 ON3VHK
Photo of Kurt Onvijfdz

Kurt Onvijfdz

  • 21 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Translation:
Maestro
The Maestro will be available again in mid-October. The first 4 units are now tested. Next week, the first Maestro's will roll out. SmartSDR has already been modified for the new screens. One of the new Maestro's will be offered in 14 days for a CE re-certification.
So it can be ordered again in the shop.
Photo of Kurt Onvijfdz

Kurt Onvijfdz

  • 21 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
My problem is different, I have a maestro but not a flex. :) Waithing for the flex 6600. 73 Kurt ON3VHK
Photo of Uli - DK8NE

Uli - DK8NE

  • 11 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
ohh, that is even worse! - when did you order your Maestro and when did you get it? Maestro officially wasn ́t available since Mid of 2016 - at least for DLs!
Uli
Photo of Kurt Onvijfdz

Kurt Onvijfdz

  • 21 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Also order by Parma.com. Available begin november. The Flex 6400M and 6600M end october.
Flex Maestro end october. Guess for me, end of the year.
Kürt
Photo of Uli - DK8NE

Uli - DK8NE

  • 11 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
So you already have the maestro in hands or are you still waiting for it?
Uli DK8NE
Photo of Kurt Onvijfdz

Kurt Onvijfdz

  • 21 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Yes Uli, already have a Maestro. Bought from a colleague amateur.. Lucky me ;)
73 Kürt
Photo of dj3cq

dj3cq

  • 14 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Hi Uli,
I'm waiting as well... As the new 2.019 has some adaptions for the "new" Maestro I hope that waiting is over soon and asked Dathe abt. possible delivery.

Maybe we can keep in touch with this topic, I'll send you email

73, Jo
dj3cq
Photo of Chris DL5NAM

Chris DL5NAM

  • 589 Posts
  • 128 Reply Likes
Have create at Facebook a group "FlexRadio DL" - maybe we can use for german speaking Flex'er to communicate ~localy~ :-)
Photo of Tom O'Boyle

Tom O'Boyle

  • 12 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes
I have a Maestro that I do not use now that I have the iPad interface. Go ahead and connect with me via QRZ.com if you want to purchase it.
Photo of David Decoons wo2x

David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

  • 1137 Posts
  • 235 Reply Likes
Tom, you forgot to post your call so people can look you up

Dave wo2x
Photo of Tom O'Boyle

Tom O'Boyle

  • 12 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes
Silly me..Sorry. Call is N9GUN.
Photo of Kurt Onvijfdz

Kurt Onvijfdz

  • 21 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
I had looked at.qrz.com under search by name, but not found.. HI. 73 Kürt - ON3VHK
Photo of Patrick Moonen

Patrick Moonen

  • 33 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
I use the Maestro earlier but sold it and bought an iPad. From my experience, this works better than the Maestro. You have a larger screen also and many extras in the software. 
Photo of Werner Vavken

Werner Vavken

  • 3 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I agree. The iPad interface is awesome. Does anyone know when the WAN interface will be available with the Flex  iOS software? That seems to be 2-3 months late, too. Seems like FEX has their priorities somewhere else, not on the ham market products.

WB6RAW, Werner
Photo of David Decoons wo2x

David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

  • 1137 Posts
  • 235 Reply Likes
It is already available. It was released when 2.0 was released.

I was using my iPhone in the park today.

Dave wo2x
Photo of Chris DL5NAM

Chris DL5NAM

  • 589 Posts
  • 128 Reply Likes
Werner, maybe your not up to date :-)

73 Chris
Photo of Kurt Onvijfdz

Kurt Onvijfdz

  • 21 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
I can not make the comparison yet. But I also like to turn a button.
Thank you for selling me the Maestro. :) 73 Kürt
Photo of Uli - DK8NE

Uli - DK8NE

  • 11 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Can anyone (in the US) tell me how long this re-certification of the maestro will take for normal? i still want to dig out a date when the meastro could be available again. just to know when i have to push FRS again.. i ́m still unhappy with the info i got or better did not get from FRS.
Uli DK8NE
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9148 Posts
  • 3466 Reply Likes
Uli, unfortunately, we will not be providing any definitive information on ship dates other than what has been previously communicated. There are too many indeterminate variables to make forward-looking statements of that nature.

This is how the process will unfold.  Once we have production versions of Maestros completed and they pass our internal QC processes, we will start full-scale production of the units. At the same time, we will begin the CE recertification process on production units.  We do not know how long that will take to complete; it takes as long as needed to achieve the recertification.  Once we have received CE recertification, we will begin Maestro shipments to our international distributors.

As of today, we have manufactured and are testing a few production units and working out the production kinks.  We hope to begin increased production of Maestros and the CE recertification process shortly.
(Edited)
Photo of Uli - DK8NE

Uli - DK8NE

  • 11 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
TNX Tim. Although it was of course not what i wanted to hear, i can understand the situation much better now. Please keep us informed if there is any progress. The lack of information is the point I was complaning about!
Uli DK8NE
(Edited)
Photo of Norm - W7CK

Norm - W7CK

  • 746 Posts
  • 151 Reply Likes
I have a question about the "NEW" Maestro.  It appears that it requires re-certification which tells me there have been some design changes.   Anyone care to tell us what they are?

Norm - W7CK
Photo of Edward Armstrong-WB2K

Edward Armstrong-WB2K

  • 25 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
So Tim what happens to those maestros that are out there when there is a problem with that tablet that is inside the Maestro that is obsolete now. 
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9148 Posts
  • 3466 Reply Likes
We have contingencies to handle the out of warranty service if it is needed.  In general, the displays have been very reliable.
Photo of K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

  • 208 Posts
  • 78 Reply Likes

What about the "internal battery bricking" and other issues on the original Maestro..... Will the changes implemented in the new production run be offered as a fix to those who bought Maestros early on? 

Also, was there any improvement made to the original design of the main power button?

 

(Edited)
Photo of Edward Armstrong-WB2K

Edward Armstrong-WB2K

  • 25 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
I would also like to know what flex is going to do on some of these issues that Eric has mentioned I was going to write a letter to Gerald  personally on these issues hopefully Gerald will reply to Eric's post.
Photo of K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

  • 208 Posts
  • 78 Reply Likes
Now that I think about it, most if not all of the first run Maestros all probably all out of warranty by now. So maybe that's an easy "out" as far as fixing the known issues ?
(Edited)
Photo of KK9W - Steve

KK9W - Steve

  • 632 Posts
  • 189 Reply Likes
Will the "new and improved" Maestro also be able to charge the battery.
Photo of ny3r

ny3r

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
Good luck
Photo of Eric - KE5DTO

Eric - KE5DTO, Official Rep

  • 676 Posts
  • 204 Reply Likes
No.  There are no new features in the updated hardware.  The changes were simply to address the display being discontinued.
(Edited)
Photo of Steve - N5AC

Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

  • 1030 Posts
  • 999 Reply Likes
Maestro shipments to the US will be resuming this week with shipments to EU commencing as soon as the certification process is complete.  As Tim mentions, it's difficult to predict the outcome of the EU certification process as sometimes it is very quick and at other times requires more effort.

During the design of the original Maestro, we ran the unit at all levels of charge on the external, insertable battery to ensure that the unit would function properly.  As those of you that have one can attest, when the battery runs out the Maestro provides a warning to replace the battery and provides about two minutes to accomplish the task.  If you don't have a charged battery, Maestro just shuts off until you can plug it in or supply a charged battery.  

The Maestro has an internal battery to allow for this lapse of energy and guides you through the process.  The software in the Maestro does not allow depletion of the internal battery otherwise.  After the shipment of the original Maestro, we discovered that there are two forms of depletion of the internal battery, however.  In the first stage, if the Maestro is left for long periods of time (typically months), the internal battery will slowly drain.  Once the unit is connected to a charger or battery, energy supplied will be used to restore the state of the internal battery.  This is normal operation and was well tested during design.

What was not realized during the design process is when the unit is left for extended periods of time (several months typically), the internal battery can become so depleted that the battery charging circuit will no longer respond to charging commands.  Simply placing your Maestro on a charger periodically will prevent this problem.  Our sales staff has a group of about 8 Maestros that get shipped back and forth to shows and otherwise sit in a cabinet.  To my knowledge, we've never had an issue with any of these units having the charging issue.  But once a Maestro battery is depleted to this state, a different charging circuit must be used to restore the internal battery function.  Electrically, this is what is known in the industry as a "dumb charger" as opposed to a smart charger (USB 1.2 CDP).  In a dumb charger, the USB D+ and D- leads of the charger are shorted to indicate that the device connected is a dumb charger.  When in the deep discharged condition as described above, the design of the internal battery accepts a dumb charger, but no longer accepts the smart charger, which is used in the Maestro design.  If this occurs, the Maestro must be opened and the internal battery charged using a dumb charger.  

In the event that your Maestro internal battery is depleted completely, we have been performing a no-cost fix for our customers the first time that it happens.  We then advise the customer that the unit needs to be periodically charged.   

The Maestro design has been revised and this issue is no longer present in the newer Maestro design (newer Maestro's serial numbers have 0101 in third group, e.g. XXXX-XXXX-0101-XXXX).  The design of the new Maestro is significantly different in this regard and is not a "retrofittable" change that can be made to older Maestros, otherwise we would be offering this as we have done with similar issues to this in the past.  The best way to avoid the issue is to simply leave your Maestro on a charger when not in use or place it on a charger periodically.  

We are continuing to consider other alternatives for the rare situations where this might happen so you can avoid a shipment back to FlexRadio and will let you know of any additional solutions.

Steve
Photo of John - K3MA

John - K3MA

  • 268 Posts
  • 76 Reply Likes
How might a customer acquire and use a dumb charger in order to fix this issue should it unavoidably happen?
Photo of Edward Armstrong-WB2K

Edward Armstrong-WB2K

  • 25 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi Steve I have a Maestro plus other flex radio's.
I am sitting here reading what you wrote and I am puzzled if we did this in my industry we would have to fix it.
If I have to sit and Worried about my Maestro when I leave to Florida and don't bring it with me Then this is a problem I believe flex radio should retrofit all of the
 Maestro's so this cannot happen for you to say that this was fixed in the second run of maestros doesn't make me feel very good I think at this stage of the game you should fix these issues .
Hopefully you will recall all of the maestros that are out there and take care of this issue.
Photo of Steve - N5AC

Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

  • 1030 Posts
  • 999 Reply Likes
I think you missed my point where I said: "The design of the new Maestro is significantly different in this regard and is not a "retrofittable" change that can be made to older Maestros, otherwise we would be offering this as we have done with similar issues to this in the past."  This is akin to asking for a V8 in a car with a V6 because the V6 has an issue where the ECM can run the car battery down if the car is not started for some number of months.  Yes, it's an inconvenience and I wish there was an easy fix.  Unfortunately there is not one and the V8 can't just be "dropped in" in a retrofit.  Having said this, in my final point, I mention that we are looking at alternatives to a retrofit, but don't have an answer yet.  We need some time to study the issue and alternatives.

We also clearly understand that fixing products in production does not help current customers.  I included this because both customers with existing Maestros and those that have ones on order are likely reading this topic so both cases are addressed.

We're certainly already motivated to fix the issue if we can.
Photo of K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

K2CB Eric Dobrowansky

  • 208 Posts
  • 78 Reply Likes
If my car had a defective ECM that drained the battery, they wouldn't swap the engine. At a minimum they would issue a technical bulletin, if not a full blown recall, and fix the ECM and/or associated components.

Some of the Maestro issues have been known for over a year now.

Now who the heck in their right mind is going to want to buy our used Maestros, at any price, after reading this thread.

First you decimate the used value of our existing 6000 series radios with the new pricing structure, now our Maestros are worthless..

Then factor in the painfully slow software development.......

At this point, anyone with half a brain has to be asking themselves, "why would I buy another Flex product? "

Thank you, FRS!
Photo of Edward Armstrong-WB2K

Edward Armstrong-WB2K

  • 25 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi Eric this saves me from writing another letter.
Steve I read where you talked about the retrofit take out the boards in the old maestros and swap them with the new board that we can go on and on the point is the issue should be fixed
Photo of Steve - N5AC

Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

  • 1030 Posts
  • 999 Reply Likes
If my car had a defective ECM that drained the battery, they wouldn't swap the engine. At a minimum they would issue a technical bulletin, if not a full blown recall, and fix the ECM and/or associated components.  

It was an imperfect analogy and it's pointless to argue about an analogy anyway.  I was attempting to make a point that a retrofit wasn't possible -- and that this is not dissimilar from a car running down that is left for an extended time.

Some of the Maestro issues have been known for over a year now.  

We've know about this issue for about a year, but not understood what causes it for that long.  Regardless, when the problem arose and before we even understood it, we offered to repair customer units for free with the problem (as I mentioned before) and instruct them on how to avoid the issue.  The problem is completely avoidable and is not dissimilar to the same issue on a car -- you have to start the car periodically to avoid the battery running down.

Now who the heck in their right mind is going to want to buy our used Maestros, at any price, after reading this thread. 

It sounds like you are angry about the thread -- our role in the thread is to answer questions and offer help to the best of our ability.  The thread was started by another customer.  Would you prefer that FlexRadio did not respond?

First you decimate the used value of our existing 6000 series radios with the new pricing structure, now our Maestros are worthless..  

It sounds like you are upset that we came out with better products at a more competitive price.  It appears that you don't understand the "why" here.  This strategy is called market cannibalization, referring to the fact that better and/or less expensive products (FLEX-6600/FLEX-6400) supplant existing products (FLEX-6300/FLEX-6500) and reduce demand for existing products.  There are a number of excellent business articles you can read online about why you might want to do this, but most business scholars are in general agreement that it's better to cannibalize your own products than allow your competition to do so.  In other words, you should offer your customers the best products at the best price you can -- or your competition will do this and you will lose market share.  I would recommend reading Harvard Business Review (they have a number of good articles on the topic) or MIT Sloan Management Review.  Both are excellent and have articles on the topic.  I prefer and subscribe to HBR, but YMMV.

Decimate means literally to "divide by ten."  In the radio business we use it differently, but either way, it implies that the value is significantly reduced.  We had a great deal of discussions on pricing and value while we designed our latest products.  Much of the discussion was around preserving value for our existing, loyal customers.  Along these lines, one of our strategies is to take existing radios on trade.  We take in our own radios at significantly larger numbers than they appear online for sale (I know because I personally have bots to watch sales on major resale sites where our radios appear).  We are a market maker in FlexRadios which means that we stabilize the market prices for the radios by offering good trade-in values.  No other radio company I'm aware of does this.  I've seen other vendors say publicly that when you buy a new radio, they'd like you to take your old radio of theirs and give it to someone, keep it as a backup, etc.  That's in their best interest, of course.  While we work to grow our company, I truly believe we look hard at helping our customers and do as much as we can that is in their best interest.  In this regard, I believe we go above and beyond any other manufacturer in this market.  

I do not think that your Maestro is worthless.  This comment reminds me of a young couple that moved in next door to me when I bought a house in North  Texas.  The builder didn't do what they wanted surrounding some repair or something and their solution was to hang a sign on the back of their house, facing a major road, stating that the builder was horrible.  I asked the guy about the sign and he complained about what his house is going to be worth because the builder didn't stand up and do the repair (it was minor as I recall).  The irony was palpable.  His sign, although intended to ameliorate the issue, only served to potentially lower EVERYONE's home values by maligning the builder of our homes.  Your comment is both inaccurate and self-defeating.

Then factor in the painfully slow software development.......

I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I'll stack our software development record against every other amateur radio vendor.  I wish I had the development staff of Apple, Google, Amazon, etc. to build software faster.  

At this point, anyone with half a brain has to be asking themselves, "why would I buy another Flex product? "

Thank you, FRS!

This forum exists to allow customers to communicate with each other and share information.  I think it works very well, for the most part.  We value and discuss constructive criticism from our customers and those criticisms are always factored into policy and actions we take.  Customers and prospects regularly find much useful information and friendship here.  Direct feedback is also a valuable component of this community.  Nonconstructive complaining, baiting, and the like deplete the time, energy and morale of our employees and customers for no benefit to either our company or customers.  As such, it's not well tolerated.  Access to the FlexRadio Community is a privilege which can and will be withdrawn from individuals that insist on these behaviors.  As with any online community, please think before you post.  If you're upset, write your post, sleep on it and then read it the next morning before you post.

This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies.