LOUSY NB...

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  • Updated 4 years ago
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I just don't get it. Why is FM, and LAN more important than a minimally functional NB???

digging for 9K2 on 160 w s-8, s-9 line noise; I SWEAR my ft-107 had a better noise blanker..

w5xz
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W5XZ - dan

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  • like i should have kept my flex3k...

Posted 4 years ago

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Mike Hoing

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To you noise blanker is top priority, to another is is DAX, to others it is LAN remote. The needs of the group vary depending who you ask.

I have no doubt Flex will fix them all and trust them to look at the needs and address them in an efficient manner that gets them to our goal as well as theirs, which is unsurprisingly the same as quickly as they can

Mike
N9DFD
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Burt Fisher

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There is a functioning NB in the 6000 series?
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pa0bie

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NO !!
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WX7Y

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I have to really agree with what your saying Dan,

Flex's DSP's has always been lacking in functionality and terrible distortion in my opinion clear back when I bought my first Flex 5000 in 2008 other then a few ALPHA releases we use to get on a daily basis, for about 10 days they had it right then it was broken again.

If it wasn't for the other fantastic features the FLEX radios do SO VERY WELL that other radio's just can't touch, I would not have bought my second 5000, 3000, and my 6700 which I still have them all except my first 5000. 
 
With that said 
I have found that moving the sliders on both NR and NB to "0" (all the way down).
The ANF I run between 5 - 0 depending on the signal to notch out but never above 5 because it causes way to much distortion. 

I have not given up on the FLEX engineers and hope they make time to fix the DSP filtering on SmartSDR and PowerSDR.

73's Dan
Bret
WX7Y
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WH6HI - Pat

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I agree with all that the DSP functionality is dismal.  The NB does reduce some man made noise but does not work as well as the one in PowerSDR.  ANF is junk in SmartSDR, it is just a distortion maker and adds nothing to the radio functionality.  ANF in PowerSDR was really good with just a small amount of audio distortion, but eliminated tones from people tuning up in band.  NR Kind of works but again the distortion just makes it unusable.  Don't get me wrong, I love the radio, just wish some basic issues would be addressed.  Power shutdown issues,  NB functionality, and memory stability. 

Pat
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Improved NB. NR is schedule for Version 1.5 SSDR.  To quote:  "These are science projects"

By contrast, the TNF is already better than anything available in the industry... especially since you can install multiple TNF
(Edited)
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Yes, TNF is stunningly effective.  I have a couple of 10 frequencies that have closely spaced noise from switching supplies here in the house that I have not traced yet.  I have 4 TNF's in the bandwidth of a single SSB signal and can still understand the DX buried beneath them!  

If only the ANF worked as well.... I wonder if the algorithm could be modified so that we could press a button and auto-detect an offending carrier and set up a TNF at that frequency?  That would be neat!
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KK9W - Steve

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As I said in a previous post get the core system running 100%. This means NB, ANF, NR bugs out then work on enhancements not visa versa. I'de prefer to have  NB and the other basics over the working lan.
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Burch - K4QXX

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I have reverted back to my Flex-5000 until the NB is fixed on the 6300.  The NB is great on my 5000.  I have a ton of power line noise at my location and 160/80 meters is useless without a working NB.  If Flex can make the NB work as well as the 5000, I will be extremely happy.  The main issue I have with the NB is when it does work on the 6300, the noise floor on the panadatper doesn't change.  You can't see signals.  I have no doubt the Flex will get the NB working and I am really looking forward to 1.5.  I am really jealous of you guys who live in quiet environments.
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Michael - OZ1MDF

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As mr. Akin says, "I am really jealous of you guys who live in quiet environments".

I vote for a working NB for the 6000 series too :-)
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Peter Driessen

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The good news is that a smart noise blanker can be designed to operate (remove sharp pulses) using the full bandwidth of the radio, or at least on the full bandwidth available to DAX-IQ..
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Larry Davis

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i be happy if if would work on 10kc
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KK9W - Steve

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Well if there is a "smart " noise blanker the one on the flex is pretty dumb. IQ of 10
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L.Kubis

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Because without WAN I can't use my radio!

Without LAN there won't be any native WAN which was promised at introduction and the reason I bought my radio two and half years ago.

I live in an antenna prohibited condo and the only way I can enjoy Ham radio is by Remote means. My radio has been sitting patiently on the shelf waiting for this promised capability now for almost two and half years.

I would be very happy to just be able to have some basic form of native Remote operation!

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Michael - OZ1MDF

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May I suggest an alternative solution until such time that WAN support is delivered natively, .. Setup a fairly cheap surplus computer with the Flex at your remote location.Now remote control the remote PC, and have it control the Flex.
It will work just fine, if you have a better than decent bandwidth on the internet (at both ends). Works for me, and I had that setup going 3 days after obtaining the Flex :-) Try it ! I believe PCAnywhere (for example) can retrieve sound from remote host, and thus allow you to configre DAX as you see fit.
(Edited)
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L.Kubis

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I appreciate the suggestions on how to run my Flex remotely, but I do not want to use a computer at the remote site and all the complications it entails. My remote site is at a Marina, which is shut down for 4-5months because of the Canadian winter. It is very difficult to get to the radio then for any reboots or other work. More over I used to go to Australia during this time which also demanded that the setup be as reliable as possible.

My Remote station is currently operating with a network capable TT Omni07 w/o a computer and has been running flawlessly since it was installed in 2007. However it's getting long in the "tooth" and needs to be upgraded which is why I purchased the 6500 when it was released. So far I am still on the air but just barely, thus my drive to get the 6500 remoted.

Another issue is that my 6500 appears have developed a pulsating noise or perhaps a fast motorboating of the DAX audio which comes and goes when using it in the current LAN configuration. I have not been able to find the cause, but it appeared during the last few upgrades of the software. Not sure if anyone else has that .

I am hoping that the full native LAN remote software will solve the pulsating/motorboating audio problem .

So I hope the Remote "can" is not "kicked" farther down the street some more as it has been!

Many of us really do need it badly!!

It's an existential issue for us!!

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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Lloyd:

Understand the Canadian Winters Predicament very well - worked u via VE3RPT 

My remote runs entirely without human intervention as there is no one reliable at my house that I would trust to be capable of rebooting anything when I am traveling

My solution was to equip the computer and the 6700 with remote restart capabilities. I use simple WEMO Internet Controlled Power On/OFF boxes for each of them...I do have 48 Hr UPS backup power just in case of a power outage..

But so far, no issues remoting with the 6700 for the past 2 years...albeit mostly SSB, JT65/9 and PSK  - no CW

Like you I would love a Native WAN Solution - especially for the iPad.

I am betting we see WAN by Dayton 2015 as Flex always has something new and exciting to show at Dayton..
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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LLoyd:

I have been running remotes for more than 2 years - NON NATIVE using an iPad...while I traveled around to many different countries (#19 Nevis & #20 Saint Maarten coming in Dec)

But I agree with you 100%... WAN is a major reason why many people (including me) bought the 6000 series..

Anyways V1.5, with a promised NB fix,  will be out before V2.0 WAN...



As far as the complaints about NB is concerned...

My tower about 2,900' horizontal and 300' vertical  below 18 TV towers and 23 FM Stations + the US Navy's mysterious 10MW emissions... it is RF Hell... One can easily light up a signal strength meter walking up the mountain..

Yet people always comment how quiet my station is...

I have spent a lot of time cleaning up my own and various local ham's stations.. Much if not all of the so called Noise needing a NB is actually crap caused by various devices inside the Ham's house. 

Suggest people read my paper on How to Build a Quiet Station

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/how-to-build-a-quiet-station

They may be very pleasantly surprised to find that once they actually clean up their station, track down local noise sources and abate them... then the need for a NB can really go away..

In fact, I rarely if ever need to use the NB now that I have cleaned up things...
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W5XZ - dan

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NOT true here...line noise from elevated pwr lines to my west..have done all your suggestions, and more...

this NB sucks!

73, w5xz, dan
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Noisy Power Lines can be fixed and the noise can be eliminated

We do that all the time here in San Diego.   We simply identify the exact noise source (power Pole, transformer, etc), call San Diego Gas and Electric and they are obligated by the California Public Utilities Commission to repair it...

YMMV in the Independent Republic of Texas


OTOH...looking at your pix on QRZ..  Verticals are really good at collecting lots and lots of noise...
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Careful!  I did my grad work at SMU!  hi hi...
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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See... they make their own rules in Texas.. they let you into SMU

Hi Hi. 
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Jim - N7CXI

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The problems around here rarely have to do with power lines. Battery chargers. lamp ballasts, even variable-frequency drives for washing machines more than make up for it though...

73,
Jim N7CXI
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Most of those can be tracked down and fixed
Here is how I cleaned up the noise at my house

How to Build a Quiet Station

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/how-to-build-a-quiet-station
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Michael - OZ1MDF

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And if you live in a building with 150+ other tenants, it can be pretty hard to convince all of them to redo their electrical installations. NB for the win :-)
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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As I stated in the last Flex Insider, our goal is to up the game in noise and interference mitigation in v1.5.  There are many types and sources of noise so a single algorithm will not address all types of noise and operating modes.  We are not going for parity but to exceed what has been done before on any radio.  As I also said, this is a "science project."  We have a number of ideas that we want to try that have not been used in ham radio radio before.  We have a lot of options in the FPGA that are not available in legacy architectures.  

Regarding the current noise functions, you may find that you have AGC-T set too high.  You should adjust AGC-T for best SNR and then turn NR or NB on.  I find that I don't like NR on any manufacturer's radio I have ever used.  LMS based noise reduction algorithms always "color" the signal in my ears.  I much prefer to adjust AGC-T for best SNR since the signal is not distorted at all with this method.

Regarding remote, LAN in v1.4 is a prerequisite for WAN.  We have to get that right first.  We remain committed to v2.0 WAN in 2015.  Doing WAN right is non trivial.  
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Gerald,
I found your comment about the AGC-T setting to be true for me also.  It seems like something that currently requires frequent adjustment.  I submitted an idea to automate the AGC-T setting based on the noise floor of the current band and under the current conditions.  It seems like this could be a big help.  Do you or any of the developers have any feedback on the viability of that idea?

Here is the link for reference:

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/option-to-automate-the-agc-t-setting

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
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Larry Davis

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if you have a problem with noise and you need a nb ,if you can,t hear them you can,t work them bottom line i think it,s has been way to long to fix this nb problem i see have the 5000 much better nb on it than the 6700
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Steve W6SDM

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I was really hoping for the beer dispenser on the next release.  It would save me a lot of steps to the fridge and increase my contact rate - especially during contests.  :)
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'IB' - LB6B

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A state of the art NB is imperative. I, for one, am very tempted to buy a TenTec Eagle 599 as an temporary fix for what my 6700 doesn't do any good. Amazing, and what a great sales argument! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFKQ2m-eNpA
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Bill -VA3WTB

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as Gerald said they are not just working on any NB and DSP, they are working on things we have never seen before in radio. I understand why it is taking a while,,they are inventing.....
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Gary F

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The Flex 6XXX is constantly in development.  I believe that the other top manufacturers will follow this route in the near future,
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KK9W - Steve

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Well as I said. . . Maybe they need to get the "basics" working BEFORE inventing new stuff. 1.38 brought problems that were not there in 1.3. Now 1.4 is not here yet because the timeline changed and the way they release updates and now the NB bugs will be fixed in 1.5. That version is probably in all reality 8 months out.

I had to revert to 1.3 due to the panadapter delay and distortion in 1.38. I am also thinking of purchasing another rig with features that work. Wish I knew these issues BEFORE purchase. I might have waited a year before purchasing.
(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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My daughter, a Technician, cooked Thanksgiving Dinner, but the turkey was half done, the potatoes needed more cooking, the pie crust was not yet brown. I asked her why are you serving the dinner when it is not yet ready? She said how is that different from your new Flex radio?
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Charlie

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With all the above comments about their half-baked radio I am surprised they still have them in their shack but they do isn't that interesting.
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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I would say a more accurate analogy would be everything is cooked, but just not quite as you would like; but the meal is still yummy!
(Edited)
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KK9W - Steve

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AGREE


I put mine up for sale today. I will purchase one next year when it is further developed and the basics are working. Seems like I threw away $2900 for half a radio with tuner and flex knob
(Edited)
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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I am afraid that makes absolutely no economic sense. You sell something at a loss only to buy it again when the software is to your liking? Nothing in the hardware will have changed and you will have thrown hard earned cash down the depreciation hole rather than enjoying what you can out of the rig and waiting for the next software update.

People sometimes make rash decisions because " it is the principle of the thing!"
(Edited)
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Steve W6SDM

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You won't be parting with it any time soon.  I saw your ad on QRZ.com and you have it listed for $300 more than you can buy one new from Flex.
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Michael - OZ1MDF

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Because he is not really trying to sell it, - he is making a "crybaby" point (no offence)
But he is rather obviously found out quickly :-)
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KK9W - Steve

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You have no idea as to what you are talking about. It is on several ham classiified sites. You should do a little research before you open mouth and insert foot.

I live in a noisy environment. The noise blanker does not work for me here. It worked beautifully on my 7600 here. I will go back to that radio. As far as being financially feasable. You do what you got to do. I have said enough
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James Whiteway

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Things like the ANF, NR( I'm blessed with a quiet location so, the NB is not an issue here) are one reason I've kept my Yaesu FT-1000MP MKV. The ANF and NR work great and the receiver is very close to that of my 6300.Plus, I still like radios with knobs. Having said that, there's no way I'm getting rid of my 6300. I enjoy using it and I use it more than the Yaesu. And, I like to play around with programming and the Flex lets me do that.
 However, if I could only afford to keep one radio, it would be a much tougher decision as to which one to keep. Probably the Flex would win, since the filters are still better than the Yaesu. I only have the stock filters in the Yaesu and while the DSP filtering in the radio is quite good, it's not as good as the "brick wall" filters of the Flex. Then again, the Yaesu is a BIG radio and looks so cool !!
:-)
I'm glad I don't have to make that decision. I did sell quite a bit of other radios and goodies to come up with the money for the Flex.
Good luck on whatever ever direction you go. The TenTec is a good radio in it's own right. And it will hold it's value fairly well.
james
WD5GWY
  
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Since the post has been answered and the replies are starting to take on a personal attack nature.

This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies.