Is the Auto notch filter ever going to be fixed?

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  • Updated 10 months ago
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Had a station tuning up today in my passband and hit the ANF and lo and behold it does not work. Did a search on the forum and found some old threads about it. I thought it had been working on my 6300 although it did distort the audio some but I believe it did cut the carrier tone. So is this a current issue to the new Vers 2 software or is this just an old problem that has not been addresses yet?  
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Rick WN2C

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Posted 1 year ago

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James Del Principe

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Rick, I run 1.11.12 and it does work in SSB.    Of course, it does not work in AM. Would be nice but I understand that.   If you take out a portion of the passband by eliminating that portion with an offending carrier, it would distort.      Let's see what others have to say. 73, Jim
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Bill -VA3WTB

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It works well for me, after adjusting it correctly.
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Rick WN2C

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Bill, I guess I should have said on the 6400M it is not working. If there is an adjustment on the menus in the radio I have not found it yet.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Ok Rick, that may be something to look into, I don't have 6400M. I have a 6500. That looks to be a really nice radio, enjoy!!
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John - K3MA

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If it is the same interface as the Maestro.  Touch the freq displayed to get the menu.  Look for ANF in a square box.  Adjust the slider beside it.  I wish Flex would put numbers beside sliders such as this so we have feedback on the setting.
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Clay N9IO

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I agree John, a numbered reference in that setting would be a welcomed addition.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Rick - I have confirmed that the ANF functions the same on the 6400M as it does on all other 6000s.  As with all of the other DSP noise mitigation features (really this applies to any software feature), there can be room for improvement.  We have an issue in our software management system to investigate these at a future date. 
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Rick WN2C

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Tim, I recently received a 6400M and the notch on the stand alone radio does not work like it did on the 6300 running vers 1.11. The slider was up approximately half way or better and there was still a tone from a station tuning up. I have noticed some other thing like some settings (bandwidth on rcv) being different after the radio sits for a while. It also seems the persistence is not working correctly. As I understand it, persistence allows the radio to remember the last setting once the radio is turned off. Those same setting would return when the radio is turned back on. Correct?
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Lawrence Gray

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Works fine on a 6500 running the current version of 2.xx.
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Charlie

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Works fine on my 6500 on latest 2.0 software on windows 10, and ios app.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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ANF works somewhat once adjusted, but it tends to “pump” with sideband signals. TNF works much better, with no distortion. It isn’t automatic, but you can customize the notch width, depth, and frequency. And you can put multiple notches in the same passband if necessary. I find it a good alternative until they perfect the ANF.
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Gary w8vi

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I agree that the ANF works "somewhat" and needs improvement. Here is an example I found:

Listening to a weak DX station on 14.195 SSB and someone tunes up with a carrier producing a loud 600 Hz tone on 14.195. I then turn on the ANF and adjust the slider correctly and narrow the bandwidth. The ANF nulls out almost all of the 600 Hz tone Until the weak station begins to talk. Then I hear the 600 Hz tone with the voice of the DX station. If the tune up carrier signal is weaker than the DX station then the ANF works well and most of the tone is nulled out.

This is with a Flex 6300, Smart SDR V2.1.32. (6600 on order) I had a Kenwood TS-990 that had the same issue with the ANF but also had an Icom 7800 that would eliminate all tuneup tones in the passband. 

I feel confident that Flex will be improving the ANF and NB. For me the way it is now is acceptable and has not stopped me from investing in a new Flex 6600. 
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Bob W8RMV

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If you are running in PC mode, the TNF maybe an option to eliminate a QRM'r or tuner upper. But only if it is an unchanging tone. IMO an effective ANF or DNF as Yaesu calls it, is mandatory in rig mode on a M model Flex, because there is no mouse operation to quickly & precisely hone onto the tone.  I was quite surprised & disappointed in the ANF on my new 6400M, which I run in standalone or rig mode as I call it, 90% of the time.  Yes the ANF removed the irritating tone, but replaced it with a fair bit of distortion.  I do not experience that on my TS-590 or FTdx-3000.  I can leave the ANF on all the time on those rigs, with just a bit of discernible distortion on SSB.  Yes, I tried moving the threshold slider around, but to no avail.  So I was left with listening to the piercing tone or distorted audio.  Not a good choice on such an amazing device like the 6400M.  It is really quite confusing to me as a first time Flexer.  How could this device be so amazing & yet fall down on something others have been doing so effectively for years?  I am compelled the use the ANF frequently every day I am one the air. I need it to work as well as my other radios.  - Bob
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Bob W8RMV

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Why do I see all my grammatical errors after I post?  Sheesh.  Sorry.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Bob as a new Flex owner, I'm sure you have noticed that there are several things in the Flex that perform much higher then your other rigs can.
And as a Flex owner one thing we have come to understand is that the software is always in development. At this time the DSP filters may not be were they want them as far as how they perform. As time allows I'm sure they will re visit this in more detail.

As I understand, almost all updates have little tweaks in them to improve them. When they say for instance,,work under the hood,,, they are tweaking things. I have noticed this over the last few updates. I am very happy how the NB and NR are working at the moment compared to how they used to be. But the ANF is till not there yet, as I still hear more distortion than I like.

So come along for the ride, there will never be a time when Flex says the radio software is finished.
(Edited)
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W8QB

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On my 6400M I have been very disappointed with ANF and WNB.  My backup rig is a 7300 whose ANF promptly and reliably notches out carriers.  I have no such luck with carriers when using ANF on the 6400M.  Likewise with my 6400M, WNB has no perceptible impact on well correlated noise...it is as if WNB does not even exist.  I never had these issues with my K3 and did not expect to encounter them with the 6400M.  I would ask that attention be devoted to improving ANF and WNB at the earliest possible date, because for a radio of this caliber, simply getting around to it "as time allows" is unacceptable.
(Edited)
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Lawrence Gray

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Welcome to the long list of Flex 6xxx owners who have consistently noted the issues with these features. I am not sure why it has taken so long to address these well known issues.
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Lawrence Gray

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If you search for "ANF" in the community, you will find that ANF performance has been an issue for quite awhile.  It has improved, but is still not at the functional level of many current transceivers.

As I noted in an earlier post, it works fine for me on my 6500, but I use it only in PC mode or remote with an iPad.  I cannot speak to "rig" mode.

Larry, W1IZZ
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Brian Denley

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Hard to understand: the algorithms for auto notch were set about 25 years ago. In fact, I have never owned a Xcvr or rcvr that had auto notch that didn’t work well.
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Rich McCabe

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I don't use it much because it really does not work for me. The TNF works great but that's a long way from automatic.  I like the TNF better on the M radios because once you have it active the filter knob (center and ring) control location and width.

I honestly don't miss an auto-notch much anymore.

Rich
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Dale - K4DG

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I used it all time during the ARRL DX contest this past weekend. It worked fine to remove the tuner-uppers who seem to come out of the woodwork during contests.
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Wayne

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When I setup my 6400M yesterday I had a tuner upper on 20m and turned on ANF and he was gone instantly. Works great! Good job flex!

I think a lot of issues are this: You can have the best rig made but if you have a loose nut behind the keyboard or touchscreen (operator who is clueless) then it doesn't matter the result is the same as if you had the cheapest radio with the least features.

Defintion of Crazy: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

Defintion of Learning Experience: Its what you get when you didn't get what you thought you wanted!


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James Del Principe

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Wayne, respectfully, do you think that all of these operators are, in your words: " a loose nut behind the keyboard or touchscreen (operator who is clueless)   "? I am sure most have many years experience with many rigs as do I at 55 years this September. I think there is merit to what is said and we do need improvements.
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Rich McCabe

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Not to mention it doesn't take a rocket scientist to operate an auto notch filter. That is the mode of notch that requires no skill.   Something that just works when I push the button. This worked great on all the Icom's have owned in the last 15 years.

The is definitely not a "loose nut" issue.

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N5LB - Lionel B

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ANF works ok on the 6400 on the "tuner upper" types but for persistent interference I will use a TNF.  On the ANF I have noticed the "pumping" mentioned by Ken but not objectionable to my style.  I like the flexibility between the ANF and TNF functions and finding the best approach for each case.  
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Gary w8vi

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Not everyone who believes that the ANF feature needs improving is a "loose nut".   

I agree that the ANF works well if you hear someone tuning up on a quiet frequency. But, if I am listening to a QSO and someone tunes-up on or near the frequency the tune up tone will be heard when someone speaks - almost as loud as when the ANF is turned off. This is especially true for me when the tune up tone is louder in signal strength than the station talking.

I am mentioning this issue because a few other manufactures have solved this issue and I believe Flex will eventually fix it improve the performance of the ANF and other noise migration tools. 

Depending on your operating style and what your objectives on the HF bands may determine how much of an issue this is for you.  If no one or only a few mention these and other issues FRS will have little motivation to make improvements.  
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I don't seem to have the same problem as you are. When I set it in the right place the ANF simply presents a ping, and that's all. but i hope Flex works on the distortion problem a little more.
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Burch - K4QXX

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I have noticed this as well.  The ANF works great if there is no other activity in the bandpass but if the tone is on top of a QSO, it doesn't work well. 
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Mike W9OJ

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The ANF works great if there is no other activity in the bandpass but if the tone is on top of a QSO, it doesn't work well. 
Same here, which kind of means it's worthless.
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Steve Gw0gei

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You are not alone. Running 1.11 ssdr most recently on a 6300 I always experienced the pumping effect and even compared to my old icom pro 3 it was mainly ineffective. Having moved to an Anan 7000 and openhpsdrmrxps software recently as a n interim measure until frs sort out the disconnect bug and develop ssdr to be on a par with peer sdr radios I can confirm that the anf in openhpsdrmrxps is far better in performance. There is much improvement to be made in ssdr on what is an essential feature for today's radio operating. Hopefully 2018 will see a big step forward with some of these basic features in sdr to bring it up on par with its peers and beyond them.
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K5ROX

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the anf on my ft920 works much better but it does work on my 6600
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WW1SS - Steve

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It is what it is. I don't see it getting fixed in the future either . . . As Tim Said " We have an issue in our software management system to investigate these at a future date."

Its been a couple years and I guess it is not far enough in the future.

As I said before everything with Flex seems to get close to being finished then stops and they go onto something else.
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Jon - KF2E

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It's funny how software items go round and round in the community. When Flex releases code for a particular function it either works great(most of the time) or it doesn't(occasionally). When it doesn't perform to the users expectations it never seems to make it back to the todo pile. DSP functions in general have languished for a long time. They are one of the few areas where "traditional" radios still surpass Flex in performance. Even the earlier 3000 and 5000 radios had better DSP.
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James Whiteway

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Same here. My Yaesu FT-1000MKV's ANF runs rings around SSDR's ANF. With SSDR and 6600M, somesone can tune up on a QSO and I engage ANF and it will.kill the tuner upper, until someone speaks. Then the tone from the tuner upper will break thru on top of the person speaking, no matter how much stronger the voice signal is. My ICOM 706 works better.
No working ANF, no all mode squelch, little things to some. But, very important to others. Past time to fix this in my way of thinking.
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WW1SS - Steve

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Even my little Kenwood 480 runs rings around the flex when it comes to noise and the ANF. Seems things go onto the bug list but never come off. It shouldn't matter if it is important to some and not others it should just work like it does with other radio's.
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W2PP

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I will also say the DSP and the ANF function poorly compared to any radio I have ever had.  This is a very significant short coming and I have a 6700 the flag ship model.
Peter
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Official Response
As I had commented earlier, with all of the DSP noise mitigation features (really this applies to any software feature), there can always be room for improvement.  We have an issue in our software management system to investigate the NR, ANF and NB at a future date.  Because it is company policy not to speculate or discuss features or products unless they have been officially announced or the software feature's release is imminent, I am not able to provide an answer to the "when" part of the question.
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WW1SS - Steve

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Just another ... Throw it off on the back burner as there is NO when. I hardly consider it a feature that can’t be discussed. More like its as good as it is gonna get so leave it alone. Just give us your $$$ and we’ll worry about it later in our list of stuff that never gets done.
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John-KC2QMA

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Steve I feel your pain, I have learned to give up on waiting for the software to evolve at a faster pace or even try to get anywhere on this forum. The flex hardware is great and the software is good but has a long way to go to be more complete. All we can do is hope that now that the new radios are out and soon the PGXL that FRS will hire more coders and put “Software” development into high gear before one of the big competitors gets ahead of Flex.

Don’t forget Icom, Yeasu, Kenwood have a lot more money to throw at R&D and have been in business a lot longer so don't think for a second that they are just going to sit there and watch their market share dry up.

Now just watch the Flex Fans and loyalists jump all over this post, That why I just uncheck the Follow post button so I don't have to hear or see it.
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W2PP

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I think it’s a little ingenuous to say that Flex policy isn’t to comment on future work unless it’s Imminent. Multiple products have been announced well in advance of their real release date. One could argue this is done to raise working capital. So again to say it’s policy not to talk about software problem resolution dates is a bit much. I like Flex stuff but feel credibility is a valuable asset that Flex should safe guard. This dichotomy should be addressed formally
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WW1SS - Steve

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They're saying they are NOT working on it as it is not imminent. If and when they get to it they get to it. It's on the list of maybe's. It somewhat works so that is good enough.
(Edited)