IP Trouble Continues

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Difficulty getting a useful IP address in the correct domain...
Dear Friends:
I have had several conversations in the past "off the record" -- so to speak via private email.  A few searches over the past year have shown that I am  not the only one with this problem.  I would like to find out how many others are having this problem.  My Flex-6700 repeatedly finds its IP address in the 192.168.30.xxx domain.  Of course, everything else in the LAN is 192.168.0.xxx.  Therefore, in order to "play radio," I must change my computer over to a matching domain in order to use the radio.  Of course, that causes loss of access to everything else in the LAN which is at 192.168.0.x.  I have even tried switching EVERYTHING over to 192.168.30.x to accomodate the radio.  However, that caused other problems with my virtual servers.  I was advised that my Motorola Surf Board was likely the problem.  I have twice replaced my Modems/Routers since purchasing my much loved Flex-6700.  I have to admit that the Motorola or Arris Surf-Board Modems/Routers are terrible.  Motorola recently updated the firmware on their Surf-Board class of Modems/Routers.  It is impossible to "turn off" the firmware update process which is automatic when the cable is connected.  I even tried blocking the Motorola address from where the updates arise.  The Router would not accept the address to be blocked.  The latest firmware updates took a class of Routers that were "average" at best and rendered them into useless junk.  Moreover, these Routers were not cheap.  So, last week, I purchased a really good Router, a D-Link "Night Hawk" C7000/AC1900 Router/Modem in the $300+ range.  Well, there is some improvement.  Once in a while the Flex-6700 will take an IP address assigned by the Router and it will stay on the right domain for a while.  However, if things have to be powered down for one reason or another, the "correct" IP domain is lost and my Flex-6700 is back to 192.168.30.14 once again.  I have tried every possible order of powering down the radio and/or the Router to get my 6700 to accept a correct IP address.  I am told that the ability to assign a static IP address in the Flex-6000 series is to be included in a future update at some point in the future.  In the mean time, I have a really expensive radio that is just too much trouble to use and I keep waiting for the next update...hoping that as each update comes out that "this will be the one" that contains the ability to assign a Static IP address.  How may others are having this trouble?  Are there enough fellow Flexers out there to get behind this type of update to be included ASAP within the next update or am I alone? 
Thanks, guys...de Daniel W3DCB
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W3DCB

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Posted 3 years ago

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Jim Gilliam

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Some routers like my Linksys, will allow me reserve a particular address using DHCP. All that is needed in this reservation is to give the MAC address of the unit seeking connection. When you are connected use your router to ascertain the MAC address of the Flex and try reserving a 192.0.168.xxx address for the Flex and see if the router will assign the address properly.


Jim, K6QE

(Edited)
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Phillip Beistel

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Daniel,
2 questions:
1. How does the radio perform if you directly connect it to your computer?
2. Do you have any devices (other than your router) that are configured to provide DHCP service?
 
The reason for the question is because I had a server that had DHCP configured on it that passed out addresses not on my desired network , but only under very weird circumstances. Once I  turned on DHCP in it, the problem went away.

Good Luck,
Phill (WB3DHF)
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Jon - KF2E

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If you don't want to fight with it, change the netmask in your router to 255.255.0.0. You might have to change it on your PC as well if you are not using DHCP on the router. This will allow your PC and router to route all addresses in the 192.168.0.0 subnet. No real risk from doing this as the entire 192.168 class B is non-routable on the internet.

Jon
(Edited)
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Mark Erbaugh

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I had a continuing problem where my Flex radios (6300 upgraded to 6700) would not get an IP address, they kept falling back to the 169.x.x.x default. Windows PCs worked fine. Linux did not. Turned to be a switch.
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W3DCB

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Thank you all so much for the emails and comments thus far.  I replaced the switches 3 times in all over the past year (also tried some borrowed ones).  I finally purchased a brand new D-Link 52-port managed smart switch 3 weeks ago...I was using two Cisco 24 port smart switches, New Old Stock, which I found on eBay for a good price.  I didn't like them as they would not do what Cisco claimed they should do.  Specifically, I could not manage them through the browser...They only would take changes via Tel-Net which was OK, just inconvenient.  I finally went for an expensive brand new D-Link Smart Switch from NewEgg which set me back a bit more than $400...It was on sale and usually went for a few hundred more.  So, I got a good price for an expensive switch.  I am keeping this one!  I have been trying various borrowed switches over the past year in the effort to beat this problem.  I thought that the switches might be the problem.  But, obviously not.  The problem occurs EVEN when the Flex-6700 is the ONLY device attached to my various routers which have been replaced several times now...My PC was the only other device attached via wifi.  It still would not take an IP address...Today, My 6700 actually has an address within the right domain.  It seems to have a preference for 192.168.0.14 when it will finally accept an IP address within the correct domain.  I always have to make sure that nothing on my LAN has an IP of 192.168.0.10, 12, or 14...These are the only IP addresses that the 6700 will accept....sometimes when it is in the mood to do so.  Otherwise, it is 192.168.30.12.  The ONLY thing that is going to correct this is Flex finally including the capability to define a static IP in the VERY NEXT UPDATE WITHOUT DELAY...Please Flex, do this for me, please?  I wonder what will happen when I receive my Maestro...  de W3DCB  Daniel
(Edited)
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Robert AA6UP

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What Jon said about your subnet mask, You should be able to set it in the router to 255.255.0.0...are you able to set a static IP in the router and assign it to your 6700?
Good luck...networking problems can be a real headache.
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W3DCB

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They sure are!!!! 
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Dudley - WA5QPZ

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Daniel,

You have some device that is  giving out a different IP base addresses.   Some switches can give out virtual address depending what port your radio is plugged into..   You might change your switch out or figure out how to get into the switch to change the virtual LAN settings.   

One suggestion was to connect directly to the computer NIC ,  when you do, the boot up sequence becomes important,  so boot the computer up first with the radio powered down and then bring the radio up .    You should be running 1.6.17 or maybe 1.5.1.   

If you have any IP video cameras on your network,  disconnect them as they tend to mess up a LAN , am some have their own DHCP  address server built in ..    From the command prompt you can issue a  "arp -a"   to get a listing of  mac addresses and IP addresses associated to the mac addresses..  

If nothing else, carry your radio near the router,  direct connect to the router,  see if you can just connect via that router,  and start adding the network until you find the problem device.. 
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W3DCB

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...Tried that...did that...Yes, there are > 37 devices on my LAN at any given time. I am a hobbyist.  However, see above my answer to Mark.  This occurs even when the Flex-6700 is the ONLY device on the LAN or connected to the router (the various routers that I have tried).  Yes, I was able to get an address within the right domain when I hooked it up directly to my computer.  However, as soon as I unplugged from computer and quickly hooked it up to my various routers, it would go right back to the same old IP, 192.168.30.12...By the way, I tried various computers, too. Yes, I factory reset the various routers. Yes, the switches were reset, too. Yes, I used dumb switches and smart switches...slow ones and fast ones.  I used switches...I used no switches.  I have made my last router change...This problem has cost me a small fortune. Thank you for your suggestions. de W3DCB Daniel
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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It sounds like both the computer and your router are running dhcpd. Try disabling it on the computer and always use the router.
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W3DCB

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Done...Did that. Tnx to every one for various suggestions...I still love my 6700, even with my single complaint...so far, my only real complaint about which I have posted. I wait once again for the next update which could conceivably contain my fix. Even a $30 IP-Camera has the ability to set a static IP address to avoid conflict. The cheapest least powerful computer or Tablet has the ability to set static IPs. My IC-7800s have that ability as does my Kenwood TS-990S. Every single piece of equipment in my shack that is LAN/computer based has the ability to have a static IP. My R & S Analyzer, my Rigol Analyzer, my scope, etc...One would think that a near $10K radio-server would have this ability which would solve IP management problems for or me and others. It is my opinion that such function should have been there from the first or at least the second release. I have not approved of my the way that some of my fellow Flexers in the past have taken to the internet in an effort to pressure Flex for the inclusion of one function or another to be included in an upcoming update just b/c it was a pet interest. However, now, I find myself engaged in the same type of messaging and I don't like it. It gives me a bad taste in my mouth. However, given the complexity of such a radio server, I am publicly asking Flex to take care of this ASAP. Again, I don't like doing this sort of thing and I have criticized others in the past for this sort of thing. I don't like the fact that I have been brought to this point. I only hope that they do not take offense and will still consider me a friend and ally.
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Doug Hall

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Daniel,
I hope you're able to solve your problem. While being able to set a static IP address would get around the issue it really does sound to me like there are two DHCP servers on your LAN. Obviously there is one in your router, but is it possible that there is one in another device, like perhaps your cable modem? Some Motorola cable modems hand out addresses via DHCP in the 192.168.30.x range. There are tools available for detecting rogue DHCP servers - have a look at the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_DHCP
Again, best of luck in finding a workable solution.
73,
Doug K4DSP
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W3DCB

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Again, tnx...Motorola SurfBoard disconnected and in a drawer ready to be sold.  New D-Link NightHawk Router/Modem purchased and on-line.  New D-Link switch....Again, even when nothing else is on the Router other than the Flex-6700, it is taking an IP address of 192.168.30.12...Even when computer is NOT connected.  How do I know?  I know that from the Router and Switch Logs which can later be viewed and even emailed automatically to my email address.  Factory reset does not help...well sometimes it does...However, a day or so later, I will find the radio back at that same IP address.  Yes, that will solve my problem and I sure hope that it is in the next update.  Thanks again!  de W3DCB  Daniel
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Daniel

I use my router to set my 6700 to a fixed ip address1 use my router to set my 6700 to a fixed IP address based on its MAC address
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W3DCB

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That is why I purchased another router...I am hoping this will help.  The mac id now has a reserved IP address.  My last router did not have that capability.  At least I now have a nice fast router!   However, since Xfinity/Comcast did work in my neighborhood, I can no longer open up custom services/custom Port Forwarding!  Only the standard ones are now supported by Comcast and I can no longer open up ports!  So, now, I can't use my Moxa RS-232 Server for remote operations...If it isn't one thing, its another when it comes to computers!  de Daniel W3DCB
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Daniel.
Had a similar issue with Time Warner Cable.. so I bought my own DOCSIS 3.0 Cable Modem at Amazon.. Check with Comcast as to which modems they support
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W3DCB

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Looks like you were correct...I had two brand-new Motorola -Arris Surf Board Routers.  It seems that it was coming from BOTH Routers...The problem as far as I am concerned is the new firmware update.  A quick search of my router model finds people using them in "bridge" mode with the addition of an external Router.  As a MoDem, they are fine; as Routers they are terrible.  Add the new firmware update, and they became garbage.  I guess that the adage of never ASSUME applies.  Just b/c the Router is brand-new out of the box doesn't mean it is a good router.  The firmware was the same in the new one as the old...They both got the new firmware update.  The router hardware was the same in both as well.  I assumed that it couldn't be the router if I bought a new one!  Thank you...  de W3DCB Daniel
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Paul - N2PL

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Daniel,

Here's something simple that you can try. Maybe it will help you solve the riddle.

  1. Temporarily set your PC to use a static IP in the .30 subnet.  Use 192.168.30.253 with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0.
  2. Run an IP scanner on the PC to see what else is in that .30 subnet.  You should find the radio and hopefully something else that may be acting as a DHCP server there.
  3. If you find another device in that subnet, you can look up the first 6 digits of the MAC address to find the manufacturer of the device.
Good luck,
Paul
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W3DCB

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Thanks for the suggestions...Yes tried all that...Remember, I said that the behavior occurred EVEN when the 6700 is the ONLY device on the Ether-Net, i.e., 6700 connected directly to the router.  There is NOTHING else.  The later addition of a single laptop computer (either via wifi or wired -- I tried several approaches) made no difference.  Thank you however.  As I am sure you can imagine, there is not a suggestion offered that I have not tried many times over the past year...The thing to remember is that it occurs when it is the ONLY device hooked up to the router, wifi disabled.  Even without any computer or a single other device...I can later read the event logs of the router.  

I think that I may have licked it finally, although it has been expensive.  I was using Motorola-Arris Surf-Board Routers.  I quick search will show everyone that since the new firm-ware updates of the Surf-Board class of Motorola-Arris routers, they have become essentially junk....They were pretty poor to begin with.  There is NO way via software or programming to disable the updates.  I even tried blocking the Motorola website from the router, but it would now allow it.....

My new router has the ability to reserve an IP address for a particular MAC id...Also, my new smart switch has two additional capabilities...It can be programmed to NOT allow DHCP assignments to a particular port or it can remember IP addresses according to port number and will reject another DHCP assignment attempts to that particular port in question...Time will tell if this works.  The Flex-6700 has kept its IP address for a few days as of today.  Right now there is ONLY the Router to which the smart switch is connected to which a single laptop and the Flex-6700 is connected.  If it keeps the IP for more than a week, I plan to slowly start adding devices one at a time....Not that it should make a difference...Remember, the behavior occurred when the 6700 was the ONLY device.  I believe that the problem is in my particular 6700...However, if it will work this way, I can avoid sending it out for service and I await the promised update with the ability to assign static IP addresses.  Thanks de Daniel W3DCB
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Jim Gilliam

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I am beginning to wonder if Daniel can read.
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W3DCB

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Yes, you damn fool..I can read.  Obviously you can not.  Where the hell do you get off addressing me or "talking about be" in that manner.  You don't know me or anything about me.  As a graduate of Brooklyn Polytech. with classic BEE, I think I know my way around a bit.  If you can't find something nice to say, then shut your mouth...de W3DCB
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Stan - VA7NF

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Breaking down the problem:

  1. The flex will use its default address unless a network DHCP assigns an address.  You have a non default address, therefore a DHCP service is active on your network.
  2. A DHCP service has a range of addresses it assigns.  You said other devices are assigned addresses in the 192.168.0.xxx range.  It is highly unlikely, but needs confirming, that that DHCP service is (not) configured to assign anything in the 192.168.30.xxx range.

It sounds like there is another device assigning addresses.  The advice of disconnecting all devices except computer, switch with known DHCP, and Flex from your network is sound.

If that still assigns a 192.168.30.xxx address then look at the DHCP settings; if it assigns a 192.168.0.xxx then reconnect each switch in your network one at a time moving the flex up the line until the failure appears.  That switch or one attached to it has a DHCP which should be turned off.

The advice to fix the address in the DHCP is sound but will have no effect if another DHCP grabs the request first.


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Dan -- KC4GO

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I also use a Night Hawk router and it's setting my Flex 6500 to a 192.168.1.199 every time based on the MAC address showing up on the network.   
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W3DCB

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That is what I did...Seems to have done the trick!  That is why I bought this particular router.  It was a bit expensive, but I am now seeing why it is well worth the price.  I am sure that others have this capability as well...As soon as I saw this capability in the list of options in the on-line "brochure," I ordered one from NewEgg.  Also, I have Comcast.  Cable-Ready Routers which would work with Comcast were not so available until quite recently.  Many who have the Motorola Surf-Boards (the routers offered by Comcast for sale and rent) are using their Surf-Board "Routers" set to "Bridge" mode and they are using an external Router which will do the job much better.  I have discovered that the Motorola-Arris Surf-Board Routers are poor products in terms of router operation, especially after a recent firmware update, although the Modem function is fine.  Thanks!  Daniel W3DCB  
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Official Response
Daniel - this is clearly a DHCP issue based from what I have read in this post thread.  The only way we are going to get to the bottom of this is to do an systematic analysis of what is happening on the wire by using packet capture.  If you are interested in doing this, please submit a HelpDesk support ticket and I'll be happy to do the analysis for you.
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W3DCB

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Official Response
Hi Tim...I hope that I did not violate any protocols of friendship by telling others about the problem...I was hoping for some suggestion that I did not think of. Many did not seem to quite understand what was happening...many did get it, however. Over and over I tried to explain to my fellow Flexers who were kind enough to respond that this behavior occurred even when the Flex-6700 was the ONLY device on the LAN and that the behavior is recorded in the Router Logs/Event Log which were set to automatically be eMailed. Both Motorolas had that ability or at least the ability to later read...The addition of a single computer via wifi or wired in the same domain made no difference...I tried multiple computers and multiple routers...Some computers set to static IP and others to accept DHCP assignment just in case it may have been the addition of one of my computers causing the problem. Over and over again, I got answers and suggestions from my fellow Flexers about other devices on the LAN/EtherNet.


Anyway, it seems that the new Router with its additional capabilities MAY have solved the problem. Time will tell. My new Net Geat Night-Hawk Router R7000 (I think that I may have misidentified it as a D-Link on my post) allows one to reserve or restrict a particular/chosen MAC address or MAC id for a particular IP address essentially eliminating other DHCP assignments for that MAC id/device. Since the radio defaults to the two addresses, restricting the Flex MAC id for 192.168.0.14 thus far, this seems to have done the trick. Additionally, my new Smart Switch has the ability to restrict chosen ports from accepting new DHCP assignments or different IP addresses other than the one programmed to the chosen port (both options available in my new switch! Ain't it great!)...It allows for the programming of a chosen IP address for a particular port and it will remember the IP addresses of each port. The Flex has kept its IP address now for several days. I will just have to wait and see what happens. This entire episode has been expensive. Several used Motorola Routers will be offered for sale. I guess I should keep one for emergencies! The two Cisco switches are also on their way out and offered on eBay. I thought they were sold, but the money didn't come. So, I have to re-list them. Anyway, lets wait and see what happens. Hopefully, the problem is licked. I still wait for the addition of the capability for static IP assignment in the VERY NEXT update, PLEASE???? You know my opinion about this and I can not tell you how strongly I feel about this. Just perusing the reflector will show that since release, I have not been the only one with IP troubles. IP/networking issues can be really sticky sometimes, but this would be a simple convenient "fix." Any word on Maestro delivery? I will want to add a few extras such as batteries. I did not see any accessories offered for sale on your web site, yet. Take care for now. Will be in touch... de Daniel W3DCB
(Edited)
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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No issues here.  All's well that end's well.

Static IP assignment is on the list, but it is not slated for the next release, as it will either be a 1.6.17 maintenance release to address a few critical issues or the first release for maestro.
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W3DCB

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Thank you...Thank you...Thank you...Thank you...Can't express that enough!!!!!
What about Maestro accessories?  Daniel
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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We should be posting Maestro accessories shortly.  We'll make a public announcement when we do.

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