I would preface this post by saying I'm
very happy with my Flex 6300 and how it performs. I wouldn't trade
it for any current superhet offering. But, I'm rather disappointed
in the V2.0 release of SSDR. A few years back it was mentioned the
it was up to FRS to make V2.0 worth the cost and keep Flex on the
forefront of SDR – something that would make it like getting a new
radio. I was eagerly anticipating something that would be really
appealing to me. Maybe v.2.1 will do it.
Reading Tim's account of the new features in SSDR v. 2.0 it appears there is nothing for me.
1. SmartLink I would never use as I prefer to operate my ham station from home and when I am away I want to get away from ham radio. The smaller screen implicit in remote operation would not be acceptable for me. Why would I want to operate my ham radio from a sidewalk cafe in Rome?
2. Pop-Out Panels would be of little use to me as the only panadapter I use must be docked. If I need another panadapter (I only get two) they both fit nicely on my 24-inch monitor. My second monitor is filled with add-on software that improve my usability of the flex.
3. Improved Dynamic range for 6300 – This is purported to be included in the V1.11 release and it probably won't make much difference to me anyway.
4. Support for N1MM Spectrum Display – I really don't use N1MM. I tried it and didn't much like it. I'm not a contester and already have a decent logging program.
5. Additional RF Preamp for 6700 – N/A
6. New TURFs – N/A
7. New Flex VSP Driver – I assume will also be in the V1.11 release.
8. SSDR for Maestro – Don't have or want a Maestro
9. SSDR for IOS – Don't have any Apple equipment – something for Android might entice me.
So there's nothing there for me and I'm disappointed in FRS. What would have excited me? Improvements to the basic radio operation - not just remote operation and contesting.
A new “skin” on the operational meters (S-Meter, Power Level, etc) and controls with colors and size that I can read. I find the current implementation poor. I have some add-ons which improve things, but it would be nice to have it integrated.
Improvements in the DSP functions (not that the current ones are bad).
Optional inclusion
of dx spots and/or band limits on the spectral display. CW
Skimmer-type display for CW/Digital modes.
Integration of Digital mode decoding into SSDR
Some other new
whiz-bang operational feature that I haven't thought of but really
turns me on ;-).
Yes, I know, it's not about me and FRS is putting their
design resources where they perceive the most appeal (and upgrade revenue). So having gotten this off my chest I'll just stifle my disappointment, go back into the woodwork, and go enjoy my "obsolete" rig.
Paul
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Posted 2 years ago
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Your points make sense from your position at this time. There is no requirement that you must upgrade. V1 will continue to be acceptable for your operations. It will not time out.
There is no rush to make the move. You can always wait until the engineers cook up something that interests you.
73
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I think 2.x opens some new doors. First yes I might want to op remote to my own fairly lousy antenna station but then again with 2.x I could make a few friends and remote their much nicer stations.
And if 2.x is as good as I hope it opens up a possibility that I might remote locate my 6500 and amp to a place where the property owner would let me put up a small tower and beam. Perhaps in exchange for tie on the rig. Who knows.
Anyway we'll just have to see what 2.x opens up.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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Hard to find the 'idea' in the title you choose - imagine instead if your title were "3 things I was hoping for in V2.0", perhaps a more useful/productive thread would have evolved...
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You can already remote a Flex 6000 with the old classic GUI front panel. I've been doing it for over 4 years now. Its called RCForb. Works great. No panadapter or waterfall, but it works and it is very dependable.
Norm - W7CK
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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for me? there is little that I need either in V.2, but I am waiting for 1.11 coming soon with all the under the hood work that was done, I have seen that in action already.
And there is nothing so far that has made my 6500 obsolete, it still will do what it is supposed to do and very well.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer
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Simple, easy, done deal and for you life is blissfully just fine.
73
Steve
K9ZW
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1) Most consumers never bother updating the firmware of their router, web cam, smart thermostat, etc.
2) Vendors, by and large, are ignoring the problem
The UPnP protocol suffers from a number of basic security problems, many of which have been highlighted over the last twelve years. Authentication is rarely implemented by device manufacturers, privileged capabilities are often exposed to untrusted networks, and common programming flaws plague common UPnP software implementations. These issues are endemic across UPnP-enabled applications and network devices.
The statistics in this paper were derived from five and a half months of active scanning. UPnP discovery requests were sent to every routable IPv4 address approximately once a week from June 1 to November 17, 2012. This process identified over 81 million unique IP addresses that responded to a standard UPnP discovery request. Further probes determined that approximately 17 million of these systems also exposed the UPnP Simple Object Access Protocol (SOAP) service to the world. This level of exposure far exceeded the expectations of the researchers.
This paper quantifies the exposure of UPnP-enabled systems to the internet at large, classifies these systems by vendor, identifies specific products, and describes a number of new vulnerabilities that were identified in common UPnP implementations. Over 1,500 vendors and 6,900 products were identified that are vulnerable to least one of the security flaws outlined in this paper. Over 23 million systems were vulnerable to a single remote code execution flaw that was discovered during the course of this research.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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However, yes, some routers do have a problem with UPnP, as in they don't validate input correctly among other things. But again, this is NOT the fault of the protocol itself, and is definitely not the fault of SmartLink.
But again - if you don't want UPnP, you don't need it. You can manually forward ports.
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Why don't you do something useful and start a new post "Disabling UPnP in your router" with screen captures from your own setup, together with the additional port forwarding required for those that seek this.
To lighten things up, I am also a Google Search (medical) expert. Please find my findings on
"There are many other tragic examples of death by water."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill/
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Currently sitting in my lounge room drinking my coffee and listening to the early morning radio activity using my Iphone.
I have been using a 6700 for over 4 years and would have to say it has been the best investment in amateur radio I have ever made. After owning a Flex 5000, I was more than happy to put-up my money and wait for a signature series radio. I love the sound that comes out of the speakers and continuedly get unsolicited positive comments about my transmit audio.
Personally, I'm thrilled with what ever enhancements I get and whenever they are available. Can't wait to download version 2.0.
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It's also a littlle sad that people who have never used it yet are pre-disappointed.
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I'd agree with just about everything you said except that your Flex has been the best "investment" you've made in ham radio. Investments typically yield a profit. If not, you dump the investment and invest in something else. I'd say my 6700 has been the best purchase in ham radio I've made in a long time! Love the rig.
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Tony
VK5TT
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The wish list looks like the PSDR updates, I feel those are a long way off.
I would like to see a side by side comparison of the 6300 vs the 6400. I know it has front end filters, the 6300 doesn't: it has always been fine without them in my use. The DR improvement in V2 seems like an always good idea but not sure it would make a difference to me. I'll take it though, just because.
Maybe some more data has been posted and I can build my own side by side.
The cost of V2, no issue here. The resale value drop of the 6300, annoying but not enough for me to be unhappy with FRS. There's still going to be some splainin to do here.
I'm trying to build the technical case to discuss with the CFO, as in "why? you just bought the other one six months ago!"
I haven't seen enough technical data. It's probably going to appear over time.
I have no issues with FRS about product development times. What was the old cliche? You can have two of the following three: Fast, good or cheap. But only two.
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So many decisions and all the choices seem good.
Thanks Tim, I am working on the "business" case......
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"you can now listen to 20M and 6M on 2 different antennas. For me, that is what I need."
I did the same with an external diplexor costing just $45....and I only needed that because SSDR has no way to create logical antenna vs band mapping...now that would be a feature worthy of some $$$.
We live in hope yet with no view or commitment of what the future might hold.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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BTW, I love the fact that on the 6600, you can now listen to 20M and 6M on 2 different antennas.I love this feature on my 6700. :)
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A few years ago I experienced a direct lightning strike at my qth which resulted in extensive electrical damage throughout my home. I now disconnect my equipment whenever I leave my residence, so I won't be using SmartLink.
Even though we've waited a long time for v2.0, odds are additional fixes and features will be coming. It's good to remember the current version of PowerSDR didn't happen overnight.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
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I have to agree about the non-excitement level of V2 but if I knew what was coming in the next one or two V2.X I might feel differently.
My real issue is there is no detail on what is coming in the next releases past the standard V2.0. I was an IT manager at a major insurance company for 26 years and we published our future releases for at least the next quarter in advance. Sure we changed the content and that was reflected in the future release documentation as soon as it was known. We also had a complete list of all future enhancement and problems that all could view.
I love my 6500 a lot and it's a keeper. What I don't like is not knowing "The Plan" moving forward. It makes me feel like FRS is running by the seat of their pants chasing problems and every once in a while throwing in an enhancement.
Also we always met our due dates. We did whatever it took to meet them. We really didn't have a choice but we also never gave a date we knew we couldn't make. Like I have said before on here we stuck to the "under promise over deliver" way of doing business.
Just my opinions and thoughts.
Harold
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We were almost always ahead of schedule. We had some rare cases of being late but it was usually a couple weeks.
And no... we didn't overly inflate our delivery estimates because with one-off type systems you usually don't get paid until you deliver. So we had a lot of pressure to deliver on time and in budget.
I will admit also to some very long weekend's "getting it done" sometimes for weeks in a row.
Peter K1PGV, Elmer
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It's a silly debate, because the only real answer is "it depends." Sure, you can deliver stuff on time. ALMOST all the time. IF that's the most important parameter of the project. I can't begin to list the number of project milestones I've delivered on time or early, but cut a feature or two... or made something "provisional" or "preview" (code for "implemented and sort of works, but not really").
In terms of the roadmap: The way software usually works these days, is you don't define the features of releases far in advance, never mind announce them. We don't announce the features in any releases other then the "next" scheduled one at my company. Beyond that, we have ideas and intentions, but no firm plans. The world is just moving too fast to allow you do do long term roadmap planning. Because, just when you announce your roadmap for a year out, you'll unfailingly discover some "must have" feature and you're stuck. Either you don't do it and stick to your roadmap, or you trash the roadmap and add the feature. Either way, you annoy somebody. So... no roadmaps.
Peter
K1PGV
Peter K1PGV, Elmer
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It's a silly debate, because the only real answer is "it depends." Sure, you can deliver stuff on time. ALMOST all the time. IF that's the most important parameter of the project. I can't begin to list the number of project milestones I've delivered on time or early, but cut a feature or two... or made something "provisional" or "preview" (code for "implemented and sort of works, but not really").
In terms of the roadmap: The way software usually works these days, is you don't define the features of releases far in advance, never mind announce them. We don't announce the features in any releases other then the "next" scheduled one at my company. Beyond that, we have ideas and intentions, but no firm plans. The world is just moving too fast to allow you do do long term roadmap planning. Because, just when you announce your roadmap for a year out, you'll unfailingly discover some "must have" feature and you're stuck. Either you don't do it and stick to your roadmap, or you trash the roadmap and add the feature. Either way, you annoy somebody. So... no roadmaps.
Peter
K1PGV
Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer
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I'd love to hear the rationale for putting out a product with known issues.
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You also want to look at the subtle engineering differences between symptom and cause because they ain't the same! My understanding from the VSP driver supplier (it gets used on many other non-Flex apps) is that the root cause is that the driver is not terminating correctly at shutdown, thus the VSP ports are left in a limbo state. W10 does not know nor expect to handle that exceptional and erroneous condition.
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In a previous post Tim has ID the culprit to 3RD party portion of VSP that is now fixed. The interested stugent can search for the aforementioned post whereas the appliance op can continue beating the bushes.
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Life is too short to use products that stress you out. If you get something else that fits your needs in a way that Flex obviously doesn't, you'll be much happier.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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but the VSP driver was stated by Tim to be a v2.0 upgrade "feature".No, it was not. It was listed in the improvements for 2.0 but since it corrects an existing defect it will be in the 1.x maintenance release.
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If people had some clue what else was coming with the 2.X line of updates they might be more excited about the upgrade. I've been trying to read the tea leaves but haven't gotten a clear picture of what's next. In fact I have no clue where we are going from here.
Jon...kf2e
Ken - NM9P, Elmer
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We already have heard enough people complaining and expressing disappointment at how long V.2.0 took to release. Can you imagine the furor if FRS had waited to release it until many of these other things were added first?
First lay the new foundation, install the plumbing and wiring, build the solid first floor, then finish the rooms and add the trim.
It would not have made sense to delay V.2.0 in order to trim out V.1.10.16, when the things done for V.2.0 will enhance the trim work for V.1.10.
V.2.0 is just the foundation, plumbing, wiring, etc.
There will be additional releases in V.2.X.X that should add additional rooms, and fit & trim. But you can't trim the windows until they are installed.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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I also believe the end of $6,000 radios. Seems $3500 is the new high end range.
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Hams who can afford them are still buying high-end radios like the $12,000+ IC-7851 and others. If they didn't, manufacturers wouldn't be building them.
The really nice thing about Flex is that it allows someone to get into SDR at a reasonable price and then upgrade as their capabilities and interests change.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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Personally, being licensed 20 years in ham radio and DXing and contesting as my focus I don't see myself using a cheap, entry level transceiver anymore. I will want the best even if it costs a little more.
We should also be careful about the race to the bottom - you don't find "good" tools in the home stores anymore. You have to buy them from the guy with the truck, and they're usually sold to pros who would buy them. The reason for this is that cheap sells, even if it is inferior quality.
Ria
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Personally, I kind of like the idea of opening Pandora's box. I've seen some really neat features come out since the early days of PowerSDR. Some were expected and others were a total surprise. And there were, of course, corrections. Bugs are to be expected in software this complex. This is especially true working in the Windows environment where Microsoft goes in their own direction and expects developers to follow and keep up.
Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer
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As per "why so many on this post feeling neglected" again, perspective. I can guarantee you there are multiple times more people who are satisfied that do not post, than there are those who feel neglected. You can safely assume not all users have joined this community and of the ones who do use this community, there are those who have issues and looking for a solution and those who want to help. So naturally you are going to see more issue oriented posts, that is the purpose of this community.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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I know for a fact that remote was high at the top of everyone's list - because I set it up for them before smartlink was announced. The same day I put the script up, my mailbox was inundated.
I also find it hard to believe that most people will sell their radios because they can't change the color scheme or get DX spots in the panadapter (something no other radio mfg I know of offers either, except maybe Anan with open source PowerSDR).
I have no idea what features are so important for loud complaints every few threads from the same 4 or 5 people. Maybe someone can enlighten me? I DX, I contest, I ragchew, I do digital modes. I operate locally and remote. No idea WHAT I can't do.
Besides, this is 2.0. A .0 product is the very beginning. You don't have to buy now, you can always buy later when the feature set is to your liking.
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While there isn't much in v2.o that I'm interested in, I'm still looking forward to the 2.x updates that will occur over the next year so so. I only wish there was a way to tell if there is anything planned in any of the v2.x releases that will be "for me". I'm not a contester.
Ria mentioned a while back that Remote Operation was the number one asked for feature for SmartSDR. How did you know this? What's #2, 3, 4, 5 etc. I've never seen a list of feature list sorted by the number of user requests! It would be great to see that. It would be great to have just a hint of what's to come. I agree with several others that mentioned they would like to see some sort of roadmap again. I would love that as well, but I understand if Flex does not do this.
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Norm – the reality is that a small subset of the user group that make a lot of noise about missing deadlines and features they want but didn’t get, have effectively closed the benefit of being able to know what Flexradio is working on in future releases. Its been said several times that future developments and timelines is a fluid situation due to the nature of developing and commercialising technical products. I haven’t heard anything from Icom, Kenwood or Yeasu regarding future developments in all my years of owning their products.
Flexradio was never under any obligation to provide this information, which we should have all considered a privilege.
Tony
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Actually you can see the list of ideas submitted. You can list them by the number of user votes to see how they rank. In the lower right on the community is a section that defaults to showing "problems." But you can change it to show the idea list. I have it set up and saved to display that way. See the snapshot below.
BTW, "WAN Remote" does not come up on the list that I could find. There are 1,000+ ideas so maybe it's down there somewhere but not near the top. FRS announced WAN remote way back in the early days. It is a feature that is likely good for business and everyone benefits in that way. WAN Remote is popular but I haven't seen any quantitative data comparing it with the other enhancements that are ranked by user votes. I think it was something they committed to and a feature that the 6xxx "thin client" architecture would support better than others using a "thick client" architecture so it would be a competitive advantage.
If you would like to see the details on an idea, you can click on it, add a comment, and add your vote.

When you CLICK the REFINE button you can select what you want to see. Here is how I have it set up so I always see the idea list displayed.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
SSDR / DAX / CAT/ 6700 - V 1.10.16
Win10
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So, this release of 2.0 is not for me, but I'll likely jump aboard anyway, hoping that a future 2.0+ version will rectify my concerns. Now, it is possible that we haven't heard some of the other "advances" the 2.0 software will provide and there may be things I would consider valuable. But from what I have heard are the "highlights", and from some of the comments I have seen on this board, there are a number of us that are pretty unhappy with this first venture into "paid" support.
Of course this is friendly criticism, I love my Flex 6700, and I think Flex is a great company, but I hate sun spots. Can't do too much about the spots, but as I user I think I have a right to be critical once in a while. Okay guys, flames on.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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But, I *like* sunspots. More of them make better propagation. Once in a while
a solar flare will upset things; they can be nasty.
Please accept my poor attempt at a flame.
Ned, K1NJ
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
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I agree with you, have a 6400 on order and was hoping to see software improvements over the 6300 I sold, but nothing of interest to me on the list.
Joe N9VX
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I can sympathize with Paul in that we all bought into the Flex hype about getting a new radio with each release. We'll maybe for some of us but not all. So, it is your choice to buy or not. It just so happens this release caters to a specific group or two. Maybe a more balanced release that appeals to all would result in more paid upgrades and satisfied customers. WIN-WIN
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Flex's line of sdr along w/ anan truly goes into uncharted territory. For a traditional rig, sure you could customize with sharper cw filters, ssb filters but that was about it. With Flex or anan software updates could cover a wide range of options.
I have never owned a business or ran one, but I think flex should sell their rigs with a baseline software suite and owners can customize their rigs with software add ons at an additional cost. Not everyone wants a car with four wheel drive or 700hp.
Finally, there was a time when remoting my flex was about as appealing as breasts on a pig, but now the ability to remote is a key want for me and I would pay extra for that upgrade if it was available from flex as a stand alone feature. To others, it is not important and I can see why they see no value in the option, but the ability to remote has been a long time want from core flex users and FRS has kept their promise to provide it.
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there are many many performance tweeks, this is only the start point of V.2.....
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Eventually Flex will come to realise that continually disappointing the large majority of users means reduced dollars and/or switching to other brands. Lets hope they can stay in business by only serving the very top 1% of the pyramid.
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My 6500 although lacking in some of the features I would like is by far my favorite radio. I will be even happier when my 6600m arrives even though snap out windows is the only software feature that I will be able to take advantage of. Now having a second SCU is a different story.
Some of Flex Radio's issues are growing pains. 5 years ago Flex was some odd computer radio and now in my eyes they have pushed Kenwood out of the big 3 group. More growing pains to follow. More improvements to follow.
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rick, so are you saying the takeaway for the other 99% of users now is "screw you" for not having more cash for new toys like the 6600M and PGXL?
btw: prestige brands like Bentley got to that position by never releasing half-baked products over nearly 100 years. Their customers are exceptionally demanding and discerning buyers that would instantly take a car back to the dealer simply because the walnut dash had the smallest almost invisible imperfection. The dealer then replaces it without cost or hassle simply to preserve brand loyalty. If Flex get to that status with ssdr and the maestro designed-in flaws they'll have something to crow about.
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Flexradio only satisfying 1% of its consumers just doesn't hold water, so any justification based on this probably doesn't serve any purpose.
Overtime my Apple IPhone has crashed a few times, batteries have gone flat unexpectedly and not started properly, but I still consider the product of merchantable quality that provides me value. I believe even pacemakers fail occasionally (ouch).
Most of the amateur radios I have owned over the past 35 years have had a glitch here and there. We want it cheaper and we want it faster. Can we afford or wait for the perfect product?
Every organisation has time-to-market pressures. I for one appreciated that Gerald held back version 2.0, even after pressure by the user group, until it met their minimum quality level.
One or 2 more sleeps, so lets be happy..
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer
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Tim has already stated on the Community that Multi-Client is one feature to which they are committed.
The value of 2.X cannot be evaluated solely on what is in 2.0.
But as always, if the menu is not appealing, then one can either pass, or wait until the second course.
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I have come to the conclusion that I am a minority rag chewer in the Flex Contesting and Remote operator crowd. I am glad Flex is listening and providing what the bulk of users want. That's fantastic.
But I am hoping the introduction of M radios will draw in more of "my kind" LOL. I have to admit I like gadgets. Things like integrating spots, band plans on the panafall and easier implementation for 3rd party hardware panels (like power genius) are all things I would like to see.
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However, I am one of the relatively small group who likes to write C# (and C++) code. So, I add many of my own features exactly the way I want them. The biggest feature that convinced me to go with the 6000 series was the c# API that was available.
At the end of the day - Flex (like most other relatively small companies) has to use it's finite resources to please the majority of their customers as best they can and some folks will be less happier than others.
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I find myself, like Paul, slightly underwhelmed by the 'first course' offering. I was hoping for more that would tempt me. I had discussed with others, in excited anticipation, that "I wouldn't be surprised if a few 'gems' have been held back for the V2 release" However it appears I was being a little optimistic.
That said, I am still blissfully happy with my 6500, (despite a hardware fault that meant I was without it for 2 months, while it flew to Germany then Texas and back to me via Germany!)
It's the best radio I've ever used.
Yes, there are things I'd change in SSDR, but it's still great!
I am dissapointed with the 'first course' ingredients as I have no desire to work remotely, or indeed leave my precious 6500 plugged in. There seem to be improvements to both 6300 and 6700, but no mention of the 6500. So, with none of those hoped for 'gems' included, no, I won't be investing in V2.0...but as mentioned above, I will simply wait until a few features appear that fit my needs (many of them already well documented by others)....and there is a great feature in itself, no requirement to upgrade.
Despite my dissapointment, I'm sure I speak for many others when I say, I am very grateful for the continued development by the FRS team and excited for what the future may bring.
I look forward to reading comments from those using V2.0 within this great community...In the meantime...I'm just gonna fire up on 40m, with a radio that's still hard to beat...even without V2.0! :-)
Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer
- 403 Posts
- 170 Reply Likes
In my little world these four features below are today what is important to me:
- editable GUI in both SmartSDR and Maestro
- Antenna Genius control from Maestro
- Memory control by a knob (turn a knob to select from stored memory)
- adjustable/resizable Clock on Maestro
Ken - NM9P, Elmer
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I have a simple way of switching between three different antennas without being in the shack. It is a workaround, yes, but it works until I can afford and implement a more elegant solution.
I can put my main tower lead on ANT1 and my vertical on ANT2.
I have an Ameritron ACS4 remote switch on the main tower lead in order to switch between my Log Periodic, OCF Dipole, and Inverted L antennas. I have the RCS4 set so that I leave it on the position for the Log Periodic, and the Dipole is on position 4. When the power supply for the remote antenna switch is removed, it defaults to position 4 (the Dipole). Now I have a NEO WiFI power switch (about $25) to control the power supply for the ACS4. So now, I can switch between the Log Periodic and Dipole Antenna with a simple utility on my iPhone or iPad. There are Android apps too. So I can select any of three TX/RX antennas either via SSDR for Windows or IOS, or by using my iPhone app.
The next project likely be a USB 8-port relay adapter that I will be able to control via the 6500's USB port which will take the place of the ACS4 control head and allow me to link any of the 4 antennas to the desired bands from within SSDR. Alternately, I may come up with a simple driver for one of those $10 Raspberry Pi's that will do the same thing over WiFi.
Longer term, I hope to replace the ACS4 with an Antenna Genius 2x8 switch and use 2 feedlines to the tower. But that is a more expensive solution for another day - after I upgrade my 6500 to a 6600, etc.
Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer
- 403 Posts
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- 941 Posts
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I drive a truck for a living. But, enjoy programming as a hobby. But, lately, I have not had much of a chance to write any code. But, I do plan to try exactly what you are talking about. I have a couple of Android based tablets that would be fun to get going like that.
Imagine, being able to choose a classic radio interface from a drop down menu and remotely connecting to your Flex. That would be fun!
james
WD5GWY
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