If I order a PowerGenius XL now, will it include the automatic antenna tuner? It's going to be this one or the Elecraft KPA1500.

  • 1
  • Question
  • Updated 1 year ago
  • Answered
If I order a PowerGenius XL now, will it include the automatic antenna tuner? It's pretty much going to be this one or the Elecraft KPA1500.
Photo of WA4FOM

WA4FOM

  • 28 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes

Posted 1 year ago

  • 1
Photo of Matt (K0KB)

Matt (K0KB)

  • 118 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
No
Photo of WA4FOM

WA4FOM

  • 28 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Thanks for the intel.  KPA1500 it is, then.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2309 Posts
  • 947 Reply Likes
Did you talk to sales at all? I think it's worth a shot sending them an email or calling them. The worst they can do is say no. 
Photo of WA4FOM

WA4FOM

  • 28 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
No, I didn't.  I have to admit my Spidey Sense is tingling a bit on this one.  Why stop selling the amp with a tuner?  I'd be a little nervous about being one of relatively few people having the amp with a "limited edition" tuner in it.  I hope Flex will be able to internally justify long-term support for it along with the amp.  I dare say that the lack of a tuner may be the "tipping point" for a lot of people that will get them to look elsewhere.  It is for me.  In Flex's defense, I did have a serious problem with my 6700 (which they never could fix) and they did the right thing in the end, which was to send me a new rig for $0.00, so mega-kudos to them for their customer support.  I will probably heave my money into better antennas and wait for the LDMOS technology to get cheaper, and let my little KPA500 (500 watts) and the KAT500 boost my 6700 for now and get me out of the (RF) Black Hole of Bayonne.
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1105 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
As far as I know they are external and who said they were going to stop selling them?  Not limited edition. Just an introductory offer to include the tuner to the early purchasers.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2309 Posts
  • 947 Reply Likes
I agree with Rich here - the tuner is separate as it allows you to place it anywhere in your system. It's not that they will stop producing the tuner, it just would not be included for orders after Dec 31 2017.
(Edited)
Photo of WA4FOM

WA4FOM

  • 28 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Ah, my mistake then.  I stand corrected.
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 9181 Posts
  • 3528 Reply Likes
Contact Sales to get factual data.
Photo of WA4FOM

WA4FOM

  • 28 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Thanks.  Will do.
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1119 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
The PGXL is really in a different class. Not saying its better, but just has some additional functionality. If the KPA1500 meets your needs then it should be a fine amp and Elecraft is a great company.

I would love a power genius but I really don't need/want that much power and the price is out of my league.  I am currently amp shopping for something in the 600-1000 watt range that auto band switches. This will replace my trusty Hercules II. 
Photo of KC2QMA_John

KC2QMA_John

  • 680 Posts
  • 283 Reply Likes

Rich the Ameritron ALS-606 @ $2000 and 1306 @ $3300 are very nice amps with good specs for a very reasonable price. And they are Made In U.S.A.

http://www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=ALS-606S

http://www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=ALS-1306


As a side note since it has taken much longer to get the PGXL out than was told maybe as a courtesy to their customers FRS could extend the Antenna Genius offer? I mean to me I just seems like the right thing to do, after all the amp cost $7000!
(Edited)
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1119 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
John, I have a hard time spending significant money on anything MFJ is associated with. Just cant do it :)

At this point the three I am looking at are the Acom 600s (the 1200 seems to have issues), Palstar and the Expert 1.3.   Just not sure.

I agree about your tuner comment. Would be a nice if Flex would extend the offer.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
For that price I would get an SPE 1.3K-FA or 1.5K-FA. In fact if you want one I may know someone who has one to sell. I had one and it's a fairly decent amp. Won't do full duty cycle RTTY but it's just fine for SSB and CW. And it has a built in ATU. 
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1119 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
I think the 1.5 is out of my price league.  So is the one that might be for sale a 1.3 or 1.5?
Photo of KC2QMA_John

KC2QMA_John

  • 680 Posts
  • 283 Reply Likes

Yeah I understand about MFJ definitely not in the same class as the Expert, Elecraft but affordable.

The Ameritron division is better than the MFJ line better QC, also MFJ has great customer service. I know 4 people with the 1306 and none of them have had any trouble and they all say they love these amps.

Photo of WW1SS - Steve

WW1SS - Steve

  • 746 Posts
  • 256 Reply Likes
The Acom 600 is a mighty nice amp. Had one. I upgraded to an Acom 1000. I don't mind tuning it.
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1119 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
Well the 600s has been under redesign since December and has started shipping to Europe and has not shipped to US yet.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
I think the 1.5 is out of my price league.  So is the one that might be for sale a 1.3 or 1.5?
It's a 1.3. 

The Ameritron division is better than the MFJ line better QC, also MFJ has great customer service. I know 4 people with the 1306 and none of them have had any trouble and they all say they love these amps.

The problem for me with it is that it uses the older tech standard RF MOSFETs. If I were buying today I would want LDMOS for ruggedness. It's the same reason I would not buy a SPE 2K-FA or Icom PW1.
(Edited)
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1119 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
If you don't mind, check and see if they are interested. Must be non smoking and excellent condition.

Email good on QRZ.

Thanks Ria

Rich
Photo of KC2QMA_John

KC2QMA_John

  • 680 Posts
  • 283 Reply Likes
The good news is it's just a matter of a few years and all HF amps will be LDMOS and the prices will drop BIG Time!

Currently the LDMOS chips are running around $250!
(Edited)
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
I don't think the chip itself is the problem. The problem is the level of engineering required around the chips. I think we will see some price drop but we won't see Ameritron prices just yet. They can build cheap because they can build simple. The W8JI design amps are simple, cheap and reliable if used conservatively. 
Photo of k0eoo

k0eoo

  • 611 Posts
  • 85 Reply Likes
the KPA1500 is a single LDMOS like the Expert 1.3kFA, whereas the PGXL runs 2 and has other circuits to improve the duty cycle power out.  No other SS amp can match its duty cycle for CW, RTTY and other digital modes....  you get what you pay for...
(Edited)
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
KPA1500 is dual LDMOS, 2xBLF188XR

What PG XL does have (as you said) is MEffA and the cooling system with vapor chamber. I have run it all day every day for a whole week at full power high duty cycle without issue.
(Edited)
Photo of Richard

Richard

  • 123 Posts
  • 20 Reply Likes
Ria,  I and others are so happy to hear that this version of amp seems to have all the bugs out.  The rework I hope holds up and they start shipping the previously built Production Units soon....Happy Days are close at hand... "Fingers Crossed".
Photo of KC2QMA_John

KC2QMA_John

  • 681 Posts
  • 283 Reply Likes

 Say what you will but it does not cost $7K to make a LDMOS amp even with R&D unless you are just making one amp! But it’s new technology in the amateur market and anything new and cutting edge is going to cost more.

In the past what generally made amplifiers expensive is the Finals. Just like any new technology it’s starts out expensive and as the technology hits market saturation the price drops.


Remember how much these things cost when they were new, VCR, Compact Disc, Home PC, Flat screen TV’s ect..
(Edited)
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
Sure. It doesn't cost 7k to make a legal limit LDMOS amp. You can buy one for $4000 today. But the PG XL and KPA1500 are not in the same class as some of the others. These are heavy duty, contest grade amps.The same with tube amps. You can buy an Ameritron legal limit tube amp for $3000, or you can buy an Alpha or Acom for $7000 and you'll find that power users gravitate toward the Alpha and Acom. So yes, in the future you can probably buy a cheaper LDMOS amp, but it won't be the same league as a PG XL, KPA1500 or whatever other high end mfg comes out with. But if that doesn't matter to you then by all means. 
Photo of Chris Tate  - N6WM

Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

  • 913 Posts
  • 255 Reply Likes
The real value of the PGXL, at least for me is its ability to essentially replace 2 amplifiers with one.  You can, listen on one band while transmitting an another, and vice versa.   Its LDMOS allows for SO2R level duty cycle, so it really is comparable to 2 amplifiers, then the price becomes less an issue.  I ran PGXL to a 3rd place world position in ARRL rtty roundup, and to do that I had to be running on 2 bands simultaneously (2BSIQ).   it passed with flying colors, at one of the most intense duty cycle modes, in the most intense of operating scenario.  PGXL actually saves money depending on your needs.
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

  • 3726 Posts
  • 1578 Reply Likes
It is my understanding that LDMOS is starting to replace Klystrons in microwave ovens When that starts to happen on consumer devices, expect the cost of 1200 -1500W LDMOS chips to plummet
Photo of Chris Tate  - N6WM

Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

  • 913 Posts
  • 255 Reply Likes
I heard somewhere they use LDMOS in arc welders.  ;-).
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
Not yet but it’s coming. That said it’s not a 1:1 replacement for the cavity magnetron. With LDMOS they’ll have an exciter and microprocessor and other circuitry. They can vary phase and amplitude and do things like boil an egg without it exploding. But I can see the magnetron being king for a long time because it’s just dirt cheap.
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1119 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
Awesome, I cant wait for a Microwave I can work Tuvalu on  :)
Photo of K1UO - Larry

K1UO - Larry

  • 843 Posts
  • 135 Reply Likes
or even 2 microwaves through a Combiner :)
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
I remember an article in 73 about that. Might have been Wayne Green’s sense of humor.
Photo of K1UO - Larry

K1UO - Larry

  • 843 Posts
  • 135 Reply Likes
"Hello Bouvet...Amp here is a pair of LG-1500,s"
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1119 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
FDX now includes HF and poultry mode.
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 4172 Posts
  • 1331 Reply Likes
I remember a serious article about 20 years ago about hams converting a microwave RF deck into a high power amp for microwave freqs. It was probably 73 magazine. But not the April issue.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
Not gonna happen.. the tube used in microwave ovens is an oscillator and can't amplify. Also it is very unstable, frequency wise. It's only good for crude applications like heating. It's not even used for RADAR anymore. 
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 3746 Posts
  • 901 Reply Likes
As if we don't get a good dose of RF in to our body's already?
Photo of Jon - KF2E

Jon - KF2E

  • 675 Posts
  • 221 Reply Likes
What will make amps cheap is if the Chinese decides to make them like they did with HT's and the Beofeng UV-5R. It won't compare to a PG-XL or KPA-1500 but if it's cheap enough they will sell a bunch of them. Remember, as a group hams are generally pretty cheap.
Photo of Chris Tate  - N6WM

Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

  • 913 Posts
  • 255 Reply Likes
those are allready floating around.  fortunately most the folks that work with linear amplifiers know thats a device they dont want to cut corners on.  Also keep in mind that even though ameritron amps are cheaper, it did not affect the cost of the Alpha or Acom 2000.. you get what you pay for ;-).
Photo of Jon - KF2E

Jon - KF2E

  • 675 Posts
  • 221 Reply Likes
Isn't Alpha kinda barely in business?
Photo of Chris Tate  - N6WM

Chris Tate - N6WM, Elmer

  • 913 Posts
  • 255 Reply Likes
naa they are just getting passed between owners.. the point is that ameritron makes inexpensive amps but it really doesnt dent the business of the higher end ones.. because they are a contest grade/ key down quality. again.. you get what you pay for.
Photo of KC2QMA_John

KC2QMA_John

  • 680 Posts
  • 283 Reply Likes
"naa they are just getting passed between owners"
The 3rd time is a charm.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
What will make amps cheap is if the Chinese decides to make them like they did with HT's and the Beofeng UV-5R.
I hope not! The harmonics generated by one of those on 2m can key up 70cm repeaters. The chinese are already making clones of OM power amps, which use CHinese tubes.
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
OM Power uses the exact same Chinese tubes, FU728. They are outstanding. Mine delivers 2300W on all bands with a single tube.
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
Chinese does not always equal cheap or poor quality. I use a 4000W @ 70V power supply to power my 2 x MRX1K80 LDMOS amp. The PSU is $550 shipped from China and is a marvel of quality engineering.
Photo of K1UO - Larry

K1UO - Larry

  • 843 Posts
  • 135 Reply Likes
Varistor..  could you PM me with that PS info please.  Call at arrl dot net
Thanks.
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
Larry,

There are quite a few choices. Contact the sellers and negotiate. Mention it is a sample for future mass production. Order it without the enclosure. Note that since I use a pair of MRFX1K80s I need the higher than "standard" DC voltage.

http://s.aliexpress.com/Qrq2mYfu

http://s.aliexpress.com/UZVJzAny

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/3266010...
(Edited)
Photo of K1UO - Larry

K1UO - Larry

  • 843 Posts
  • 135 Reply Likes
"understood,"   Thanks Varistor.  I was interested in the new 2XMRX1k80H final but pretty sure I need help with this project.
Photo of Varistor

Varistor

  • 334 Posts
  • 74 Reply Likes
Larry,

Italab sells 1K80-based decks:

https://www.italab.it/prodotti_uk.php...

As it turns out, LDMOS amps are not as easy as many cheap amps lead you to believe. The output matching transformer is quite challenging if you want to have a flat output curve across the entire operating range. We have been experimenting for over a year, trying different ferite mix materials, single vs dual deck design, etc. It appears that virtually all designs replicate a flawed Motorola reference board. The 1K80 somewhat helps by having a higher drain voltage, but on the flip side amplifies the limitations of the legacy boards. Then the LPF becomes quite bulky at 2500W no time limit.

IMHO, If someone is looking at spending $7K on an amp, their money is better spent on a pair of high quality Alpha 87s.
Photo of Ria - N2RJ

Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

  • 2310 Posts
  • 949 Reply Likes
Chinese does not always equal cheap or poor quality. I use a 4000W @ 70V power supply to power my 2 x MRX1K80 LDMOS amp. The PSU is $550 shipped from China and is a marvel of quality engineering.
I do agree. I have a few items from China - TYT MD380, BM800 mic and other stuff. I think the Chinese amps still cost almost as much as the OM Power though, but they are very nicely done. Manual Tune for the amptec is about $3000 or so?
Photo of Michael Walker

Michael Walker, Technologist

  • 786 Posts
  • 227 Reply Likes
Official Response
Hi All

The free tuner promotion has ended. However, the tuners will still be available for purchase.

Mike
Photo of k3Tim

k3Tim

  • 896 Posts
  • 185 Reply Likes
Hi Mike

Since the free tuner with amp promotion has ended how about a free amp with tuner promo?
Photo of Rich McCabe

Rich McCabe

  • 1119 Posts
  • 238 Reply Likes
They already have that. Comes with their $9.000.00 tuner.
Photo of KC2QMA_John

KC2QMA_John

  • 681 Posts
  • 283 Reply Likes
Way to go, Offer a free tuner with $7000 amp purchase, tell customers amp will be ready July/August 2017 then don't have amp ready continue to take deposit then end Antenna genius promotion? Good job.
I don’t know since you could not meet your stated deadline and maybe since people are forking over $7000 for and amp and almost certainly either own soon to own a flexradio witch can be another 2K to 7K for a radio, Maybe you can find it in your heart to just extend the Antenna genius Offer? Looks like your sill making money to me and you will have much happier customers.
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 3746 Posts
  • 901 Reply Likes
When was the stated deadline, did they call it a deadline?
Photo of KC2QMA_John

KC2QMA_John

  • 681 Posts
  • 283 Reply Likes
Photo of Rick - N4RZ

Rick - N4RZ

  • 81 Posts
  • 21 Reply Likes
It was stated back around the time of the Dayton Hamvention that anyone who preordered the PGXL prior to the end of the year would receive as a bonus the free tuner.   Flex has done things like this in the past such as offering lower introductory prices on new radios.   This is the third such bonus offer I have taken advantage of and think I've saved about $1K over the regular list prices of the total equipment I have received or in the case of the PGXL and tuner will receive.
Photo of k3Tim

k3Tim

  • 896 Posts
  • 185 Reply Likes
hmmm  The Promo was clearly stated to be ending last day of the year, 2017. Obviously Flex would like to get these amps out ASAP but won't until they are ready. The customers will be happy when they see the amp and the tight integration to the software. Will be worth the wait.
In my other hobby, telescopes, was wait-listed 7 years on a scope, with a 100% deposit at around the 6 month time frame. A different scope vendor had a 2 year wait with the final year also at a 100% deposit.
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 3746 Posts
  • 901 Reply Likes
I can not find anywhere and I saw the video, were Flex stated a deadline or, we promise anyplace. This is the thing many have done in the past is state that they did in order to make a point what ever that is, who knows?

The wording has been, We plan to ship,,we hope to ship...this is our goal.
I think it is best for those who find a down payment like this to be very difficult and life shattering to simply wait till they stock them in about a years time, then buy one.
Photo of Cedric HB9HFN

Cedric HB9HFN

  • 26 Posts
  • 14 Reply Likes
It's a pity that it was only available to US customers. Outside USA it's still not possible to preorder the PGXL and thus no free tuner at all...
Photo of WA4FOM

WA4FOM

  • 28 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I don't see the Genius tuner offered for sale on the Flex website.  Am I blind? 
Photo of Pat - WH6HI

Pat - WH6HI

  • 348 Posts
  • 65 Reply Likes
It is a new product as well. Not yet introduced by 4O3A. No price and just a few tidbits of info. All we know is that it is remotable with additional kit. Will handle full output of PG xl and that it has one input and 3 switchable outputs that can be programmed per-antenna.

This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies.