I could not transmit JT mode on 60 meters solved!

  • 2
  • Problem
  • Updated 2 years ago
Let me preface by saying I've worked dozens of stations on 60 meters at night using the Flex and WSJT-X in JT65 mode. Nothing in the last few weeks, as I didn't try.
The other night I gave it a try.
I could not transmit. I went over the settings and all were correct.
Switch back to 80 and full power as always. No Problems.

I finally fixed it a few minutes ago.
I normally make band changes by clicking on the 'BAND' button in SSDR or by selecting the Band from the Memory Channels screen.
But now that didn't work, Even though all indications including seeing the Dax Control Panel  indicating output on the TX Gain window, I head nothing and saw no output from my wattmeter.

Today, again trying to figure out what's wrong, I tried again with the same result.
All indicators showing transmit but no power output.
And a change to the WSJT-x frequency display, a different set of colors than normal.

Just for grins, I switched bands from inside the WSJT-x program, selecting 80 meters.
SSDR qsyed as normal and transmitted as normal
from WSJT I then selected 60 meters, and bingo. SSDR qsyed, transmitted normally and the returned to normal.

Making a wild ass guess that some relay that was involved in the 60 meter selection was stuck the wrong way????

Since then, I''ve tested both bi-directionally,, qsy via SSDR or qsy via WSJT and it worked properly each time.

Strange one as I'm approaching 70 countries on 60 meters and never seen this anomaly before.

thank you for reading, if you have any ideas other than my wild ass guess that a relay was stuck,; please pass them on to me.

73 et tu de W9OL
sk
Photo of Bill-W9OL

Bill-W9OL

  • 726 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
  • happy but confused, what new!

Posted 3 years ago

  • 2
Photo of Walt - KZ1F

Walt - KZ1F

  • 3040 Posts
  • 640 Reply Likes
It sounds like it should be, at least, commented on by FRS. If it is stuck relays they likely would want to know. If yours stuck, it may stick again and/or others may have sticking relays.
Photo of Bill-W9OL

Bill-W9OL

  • 726 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
I'm purely guessing....no way I can confirm that.
Photo of Bill -VA3WTB

Bill -VA3WTB

  • 2087 Posts
  • 496 Reply Likes
I am interested to know why it worked in WSJT and not SSDR.
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 8670 Posts
  • 3253 Reply Likes
I'd need to know exactly which CAT commands and in what order are being issued by WSJT before I could make a stab at what might be happening.  But if I had to guess, I'd say it might have something to do with band persistence.
Photo of Bill-W9OL

Bill-W9OL

  • 726 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
Tim, I looked in the WSJT-x directory and culd not find anything that I could determine what kind of cat commands it issues.
Sorry I can't help.
Photo of Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
Could this a manifestation of the change in edge of band treatment to stop TX towayds the edge at the edge of band that I reported a few weeks' ago?
(Edited)
Photo of Jay / NO5J

Jay / NO5J

  • 1364 Posts
  • 196 Reply Likes
DDUtil and DXLabs Commander both include utilities to monitor messages that flow over CAT. You could monitor for the actual command sequences being sent that way.
If it is a hardware or software bug, in order to correct it, The bug  has to be identified first.
Jay - NO5J
(Edited)
Photo of Bill-W9OL

Bill-W9OL

  • 726 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
Bill. I 'USED' to have it working properly.
Do a band change from SSDR and WSJT followed properly.
Then the other night it would not.
I tried all sorts of things, even reboot.

Just on a whim, as I was wondering what was wrong, I tried to qsy from within the WSJT-x program.
It worked properly and has been working bidirectionally since.
As I said, maybe, maybe some relay stuck, I'm not saying that's it, just guessing.
And I'm not taking the rig apart to find out. LOL

Whatever commands SSDR sends to WSJT to qsy, I have no idea what the command looks like.
I'm assuming same commands to qsy in all the other programs.
If the command that WSJT used to tell SSDR to qsy are different, Again no way for me to tell.

If it happens again, I'll report it is the best I can do guys.

best I can do at diagnosing. sorry I can't help diagnose the problem better.
Photo of Walt - KZ1F

Walt - KZ1F

  • 3040 Posts
  • 640 Reply Likes
I thought those things were ignored in digi. Or am I mistaken?
Photo of Doug Hall

Doug Hall

  • 178 Posts
  • 49 Reply Likes
You may be right. As I said, I was just going by what I saw in USB. But Bill was doing JT65 so he would have been in DIGU. So TX BW may be a non-issue.
Photo of Walt - KZ1F

Walt - KZ1F

  • 3040 Posts
  • 640 Reply Likes
Or, Bill might have inadvertently not been in digi. In which case perhaps you nailed it!
That's the thing, there are a lot of 'knobs and dials and switches' so to speak. It's easy to forget to switch something. SSDR is generally pretty good about not letting you do something it knows is wrong, like transmitting off band. It is less good about telling you why. Consequently it is likely not clear if the radio couldn't or wouldn't do whatever. Regardless of SDR or 'legacy' with radios of today it is far easier to get into trouble than with radios of 30 years ago.
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 8608 Posts
  • 3230 Reply Likes
60m is a channelized band and you cannot TX outside of the channel bandwidth.
Photo of George Molnar, KF2T

George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

  • 1504 Posts
  • 532 Reply Likes
TX width is enabled no matter the mode, IIRC. Equalizers are not used in DIGU/L.
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

  • 3403 Posts
  • 1292 Reply Likes
60M is the only channelized HF band with very strick rules as where you may transmit. I have had friends who got OO notices using JT-65 improperly for the channelization. Likely you may have been transmitting outside of the legal channel rules. I will see if I can find the link that details on the ARRL site.
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 8608 Posts
  • 3230 Reply Likes
Thanks for your restraint, Guy. ;-)
Photo of Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
Tim, wouldn't want to give you an ulcer before your Christmas dinner ;-). That would just be cruel.
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

  • 3403 Posts
  • 1292 Reply Likes
@Mark

I did not get one. But John NA6L, current President of the San Diego DX Club was the honored recipient
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 8608 Posts
  • 3230 Reply Likes
Guy - From what I understand copious amounts of eggnog takes care of ulcers.  Happy Christmas!
Photo of Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
It does not. It just puts you in the frame of mind so you do not care ;-).

Merry Christmas!

Guy
Photo of Bill-W9OL

Bill-W9OL

  • 726 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
Thank you Howard. But I was NOT transmitting outside the channel boundaries.
That was the issue.. WSJT WOULDN'T ALLOW transmission.
I'm fully aware of the channels.
I've made many qsos on 60.
How and if I was outside the boundaries or overlapping, I have no idea how that happened.
As vfo's on both the Flex and the JT program itself have always been automatic.

Again I wish to point to the clue that the JT program was giving me, that the WSJT-x  frequency display was trying to tell me something was wrong.
I knew it was wrong but didn't know how to fix that.
By initiating a qsy from the JT program instead of SSDR, the problem was corrected.
Now how the incorrect frequency channel borderss came to be....I don't know,


But the only indication that the wrong channel or channel boundaries where improper seems to be the WSJT-x frequency display.
but now I know what to look for and how to fix it.
BTW: Funny I couldn't find any postings on the WSJT groups about this issue.
(Edited)
Photo of Tim - W4TME

Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

  • 8608 Posts
  • 3230 Reply Likes
If the radio is not transmitting, look at the TX indicator in the bottom right-hand corner of the screen.  If if does not say TX Ready, then an interlock in in place preventing transmit.  Doing a mouse over on the icon will provide more detail.
Photo of KY6LA - Howard

KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

  • 3403 Posts
  • 1292 Reply Likes
Here is a good explanation of where to be on the WF using JT65 HF (outmoded and not supported) and WSJT-X
Dear 60M JT65a Users,

Please rememeber that you may only use the channel CENTER frequency and there may only be one QSO at a time on each channel. This applies to all modes including JT65A.

The ARRL FAQ on 60M has a section with a heading "What modes can I use on 60M" that covers this here:

http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq

Check Part 97.303h and read the following letter from the NTIA to the FCC if you need clarification:

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/vie...

JT65A is 174.9 Hz wide with the 1270.5Hz SYNC frequency on the LF edge. So if you set JT65HF to transmit with an offset of zero you will be transmitting between 1270.5 and 1445.5 (1270.5+174.9) Hz above your suppressed carrier/dial frequency. The center of your transmission will be 1357.95 (1270.5+174.9/2) Hz above your dial frequency. Since the center of each 60M channel is 1500 Hz this results in you being 142.05 Hz too low.

To correct this, set your offset on JT65HF to +142 Hz.
If you use WSJT-x simply set the offset to be 1412 Hz.

Also note that radios with pre-set 60M channels (e.g. The Yaesu FT950) display the channel CENTER frequency which is 1500 Hz above the suppressed carrier/dial freauency.

There is no definitition regarding how close to the center frequency we need to be but with modern day rigs there should be no reason why we can't get our 175Hz signal to straddle the channel center.

Here is a good explanation of where to be on the WF using JT65 HF (outmoded and not supported) and WSJT-X
Dear 60M JT65a Users,

Please rememeber that you may only use the channel CENTER frequency and there may only be one QSO at a time on each channel. This applies to all modes including JT65A.

The ARRL FAQ on 60M has a section with a heading "What modes can I use on 60M" that covers this here:

http://www.arrl.org/60-meter-faq

Check Part 97.303h and read the following letter from the NTIA to the FCC if you need clarification:

http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/vie...

JT65A is 174.9 Hz wide with the 1270.5Hz SYNC frequency on the LF edge. So if you set JT65HF to transmit with an offset of zero you will be transmitting between 1270.5 and 1445.5 (1270.5+174.9) Hz above your suppressed carrier/dial frequency. The center of your transmission will be 1357.95 (1270.5+174.9/2) Hz above your dial frequency. Since the center of each 60M channel is 1500 Hz this results in you being 142.05 Hz too low.

To correct this, set your offset on JT65HF to +142 Hz.
If you use WSJT-x simply set the offset to be 1412 Hz.

Also note that radios with pre-set 60M channels (e.g. The Yaesu FT950) display the channel CENTER frequency which is 1500 Hz above the suppressed carrier/dial freauency.

There is no definitition regarding how close to the center frequency we need to be but with modern day rigs there should be no reason why we can't get our 175Hz signal to straddle the channel center.