I can't belive: "This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies."

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Critics are bad if they are only negative, this is a concept I can understand but I have never seen a company react like this: close a discussion!
You have burned the value of so many FLEX and the trust of so many customers who have believed in the project and in the company. For 3 years we waited, we got bugs, we had to use flex interface software with external accessories etc etc. Your answer was: new models, paid software, and no upgrade hardware options!
Your customers are just asking for one thing: "hardware upgrade" not to have to drop our flexes, we would have paid for it because you're giving us something in return.
I keep my Flex 6300 in the shack because it is not possible to sell it, when I will have a new radio, a real radio, I will plant flowers inside the Flex so at least it will have a function in the shack and will definitely not have bugs or other defects.
Think about what you are writing to do not offend, do not just think about yourself, Flex's property is yours but "Flex are your customers" are not you, we've bought all your radio, and we're many many more of you.
Thank you
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Lino Lombardi

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  • sad

Posted 2 years ago

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Donovan van Loggerenberg

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Yesterday when I posted a similar comment. It was deleted by the Moderator.

All I can say, is we feel let down. My 6300 was purchased in December. By January I was trying to get answers about things I was promised that have not materialised. now my 6300 is obsolete and the issue will never be sorted. I feel ripped off.

Donovan

ZS2DL

(Edited)
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Steve (N9SKM)

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You do know that SSDR software isn't going anywhere right? And that is what will update and fix issues right?
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Rick WN2C

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I purchased my 6300 in the middle of 2015 so it is about to go off warranty. I have not had one problem with it (yet) and am very happy with its performance. The only problem I did have was with the computer and DAX. The computer I was using was running Vista 64 Bit and did not like DAX.
If I can afford to, I will either do a upgrade purchase or buy a 6400M outright. I have read the "now closed threads" and am befuddled as to why so many are outraged at Flex for bringing out new equipment before V2 software. Yes I too thought that my 6300 is 'now worthless' but I now realize that it will continue to work just like my Drake radios still work. Now I have calmed down from my initial reaction of what just happened to the value of my Flex. I think I will just continue to use one of the better radios that is (was) available in ham radio.

p.s. Can't wait for ver.2  where do I pay?
(Edited)
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Lino Lombardi

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Dear Rick, your reasoning is absolutely correct, but you miss a particular one.
When you buy a Icom, Kenwood it work, they fix problems with free upgrades.
We bought radio that still gave us unresolved issues and they promised a software that would provide innovative performance. Now you needs to change radio and buy a new one, you can not upgrade anything, this is not acceptable.
If you have a K3 can turn it into K3S, this is the best example I can do.
If I want to modify my K3 I can do it, it remains my choice, but I have the chance they did not leave me with an old radio!

The problem is not $ 200 of the software but the fact that I can not update my 6300/6500 and make it like new radio. 

I repeat, it will be perfect for the flowers!
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Rick

You missed the point that unlike the Icom, your Flex will continue to get updates and bug fixes Plus you can buy new versions of software with new features so it is not dead like an Icom
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Lino
As one who has owned virtually every Icom made , they rarely if ever fixed bugs and more likely you need to buy the next Icom model to get bug fixes as these usually required major hardware revisions.

Secon, I do not understand your point about the 6300 being obsolete. It still runs SSDR the same as all 6000. Bug fixes continue to come. New features are available. The. Only difference is minor hardware changes. BUT SSDR Is the Radio.
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Lino Lombardi

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Do you read  all these angry angry posts ? Instead of finding justifications why not read?
But I think seeing the great number of post, a minimum, small, very small of reflection should come. If you start from assuming that Flex can do just fine and all are wrong, then ok!
The proble is the hardware I can't upgrade hardware, K3 to K3S do you know ?!?!?!
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Giulio

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Presenting new RIGs than new software (that is the real heart of the SDR) FRS states that the path to follow is NEW HARDWARE...but not new hardware to complete or enrich your existing RIGs...but new models.  So, I bet that in 2 years my 6300, bought in 07/2016 will be a bauble. That time i had to buy SunSDR 2 Pro. Definitely.

Remember this?

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/upcoming-so2r-board-shots
(Edited)
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Guilio - All FLEX-6000s run the exact same software.  All features and capabilities that will be added to the 6400 and 6600 will be applicable to the 6300 and 6500 too unless there are particular hardware options that are not applicable to those models.  SmartSDR is the radio.  I know your radio will not be a bauble.
(Edited)
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Giulio

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TY Tim for the answer, I hope so. 
G.
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Ken Davis

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Tim I think you have a typo where you say "All ........ that will be added to the 6500" which I think should be 6400??
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Thanks for pointing out the typo.  It's fixed.  I am on day 8 of getting only 1/2 of my normal rest after the Hamvention so my razor sharp focus is waning a little ;-)
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Ken Davis

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I do not envy you at all. I was in your position at a major aircraft manufacturer for 34 years and we customers can get a bit unruly during new product intro. Stay calm.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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@Lino - afraid it isn't possible to turn a 6300 or 6500 into a new PHYSICAL radio.  I couldn't do that with the TenTec, Icom, Yaesu and SGC radios I've had either.

What is possible is you can continue to grow your 6300 or 6500 from the present SmartSDR v1.10 to v2.x when it comes out. 

How were you were expecting to upgrade 6300/6500 Hardware in a closed Hardware architecture?  I have never seen that as part of the FRS promise.

Hardware production of the 6300 and 6500 may have been discontinued, but these two models are in no way suddenly obsolete.  They can run the latest and greatest just like the other Flex-6000 models. 

Impatience in progress is understandable.  We all want more and sooner. 

In the end it will come when it is ready.

73

Steve K9ZW



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Dan -- KC4GO

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From Tim and other Flex folks talking about SmartSDR going forward, "6300 and 6500 too unless there are particular hardware options that are not applicable to those models"
We have that today where the 6700 can do diversity and 2 meters and 6300 and 6500 can not. Nothing has changed. 
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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I've never gotten an upgrade for any of my icoms. Did I miss something?
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Bill -VA3WTB

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@ Lino  When was the last time you spoke with the CEO of Icom? or a high ranking employee. How often do they post and talk to their customers directly on a daily basses?
Flex staff are right out there for us to yell at and call names, tell them that Flex radio is junk, flower pots? And that they know nothing about software or how to run a company. I read a post yesterday saying that Flex is dishonest, shafting customers.

But we don't all agree with you and everyone eles crying. Flex ows you nothing.
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Chris DL5NAM

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Ria, i have gotten a upgrade from Icom directly for my TRX. Dont know was it the first time or last time also.  :-)
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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My icoms must be too old. I did see that they have firmware updates for the newer radios. I have a 756 pro3 and a 746. I am keeping the 746 for 2 meters but the Pro3 is going to go up for sale soon. 
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Ken Davis

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Points are being made on new stuff coming about every year is well taken and true and I support innovation 100%. I am not upset that they did the upgrade, but how they handled the marketing aspects has caused many loyal Flex owners to lose more than what we typically bargained for when we made our initial new radio purchase decision.

I have read in several posts that Flex will work to keep the value up on my 6300. I don’t believe that is true at all. If I were Gerald, my last worry would be the value of my 6300.  I don't think Flex is doing this on purpose, I think they are just wrong in their marketing philosophy.

Here are my points; the MSRP for the 6400 is $1,999 and the MSRP of the 6300 is $2,499 which makes my 6300 worth $500 less today than last week simply based on pricing policy.  For Flex to even break even on their trade-up program, they will have to offer something significantly less than $1,999 for a 6300 which will further de-value my 7 month old 6300. The only good that can come from a trade-up program is I hope that Flex will trash most trade-ins to keep from flooding the market with cheap used radios which would further de-vlaue my radio. Make no mistake, they are in business to sell NEW, not used radios.

At this point I believe my 7 month old 6300 is worth ~$1,200 until V2 is released and then it will go down more unless I spend the $$ to upgrade.  I think owners of 6300 and 6500 radios should be offered a V2 no charge upgrade to restore part of the huge loss we are suffering. Not even autos lose this much value in 7 months. I fully expected to lose value from day one, but not ... 60%.

This is just my opinion and I am certain many will disagree. I love my 6300 but I am not too crazy about Flex's marketing programs.

Thanks for listening and 73
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Giulio

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Note that:

"The Trade-UP! program is not currently offered to customers outside of the United States". 

G.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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For the most part, that is correct.  We use a dealer/distributor network to sell our products in the EU to provide local value added services and having to meet directives such as WEEE.  These dealers are independent businesses.  We will be working with our dealers to see if there is a viable way for them to do something equivalent to the Trade-Up and Trade-In programs, but it is really up to them if they decide to participate.
(Edited)
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Rob G6EIH

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Join the Distributor Take back Scheme here to comply with WEEE
https://dts.valpak.co.uk/DTS/Welcome

 
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Thanks for the link.
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Jerry WA9UKB

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Same feeling I have about my 6500 taking a nose dive Paid 4200.00 new could have sold right before may 18, 2017 for 3200.00, " although not my intention" or if I wanted to get the most to go for a 6700, now after May 21, 2017, ill be very fortunate to get 1500.00 at most. I understand everything depreciates at different rates, Its just a vertical dive in 1 day for this one.

Still a good radio and better when it quits locking up, 3 instances in 2 hours on last night using the Maestro only and latest firmware on both.

Jerry, 

(Edited)
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Steve (N9SKM)

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Lots of speculation there Jerry. While the value of the 6500 has undoubtedly been lowered some by the new rigs 1500 is just a number that sounded good to you. According to the classifieds i have seen the selling market for a 6500 is somewhere in the 3 to 3500 range.

 I will add that if you want to trade up you should take advantage of the program that FRS unlike others offer. They were extremely reasonable when i traded my 6300 up to a 6500. it was at least as much as they were listed for in the classifieds at the time.

Steven
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Ken Hansen

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Jerry, today is your lucky day! You said "I'll be very fortunate to get $1500 for it", well I'll happily give you $1,600 for your Flex-6500 assuming it is in fine working order, just let me know where to send the cashier' check.

Eagerly awaiting your confirmation, Ken
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Jim Gilliam

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Where I part company with Flex is the inability to use 2.0 on my two flexes for the price of the upgrade. That stings and points to a change of attitude with Flex. This attitude is what scares me. Gong from a "mom and pop" manufacturer to the "big time" makes flex fade in with the others.


Jim, K6QE

(Edited)
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Michael Coslo

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Hasn't FlexRadio Systems always been upfront about upgrades being per radio? 
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Steve (N9SKM)

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Paying for a licence for each piece of equipment? Blasphemy!

Oh wait that is how most companies do it. Doesnt matter if i own both machines Rockwell isn't going to let me run a licenced copy of RsLogix on 2 without paying for it. Same as the majority of software setups.
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Ned K1NJ

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   As Flex has grown, so has the likelihood that a user might have more than one
Flex radio.  At this point that likelihood may increase significantly.  Some may want
to keep their older rig as backup, anticipating the day when Murphy's law kicks in
on the nice new one.  To many it would be an advantage to keep all rigs at the
same software level.  At this "turning point" for Flex and its customer base, the
concept of a site license might work.  Just as a suggestion, perhaps $200 for
the first copy and $100 each for subsequent copy could be amenable.

Ned,  K1NJ

 
(Edited)
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Lee - N2LEE

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Ned this is a standard software licensing model. Will Microsoft allow you to install Windows and as many machines that you own ? 

What if you sell your backup rig, are you willing to pay back them back for the discount your received ? 

Software licensing can be a nightmare to track and deal and the simpler it is the better for everyone.
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Ned K1NJ

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       Yes, this is in fact the most basic standard software licensing model.
And, yes, Microsoft has organized site licensing policies.  MATLAB
has several licensing structures based not only on group size, but on types of
usage.  Flex can mold their own policies to fit their desired outcome.  I'll bet that
if you left your rig or Maestro available on-line, they could find it and make modifications as necessary.  To the "system" the radio is the user; not the
individual.  Flex has a rig (and necessarily software) transfer policy for
ownership changes in place already.  N. B., I am not -pushing- this idea, just
suggesting a possibility.  With V2 in place, Flex could find every existing 6000
series rig that wants to be found.  I have a hunch that the V2 system will be
serial number aware.  Just sayin'.

Take Care,
Ned,  K1NJ

     
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Ken Hansen

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Microsoft site licensing is per user/device PER YEAR, and is merely a pricing reduction, not a single license for unlimited installations at a given location.

For example, Windows costs, say, $100 to purchase, Office $250. And once purchased can be used in perpetuity with no upgrade rights. On the other hand, if a school chooses to go with a site license, instead of paying $350 one-time, a school can pay $35/year for access to the latest version of Windows and Office that is released during the year. When the school stops paying the $35/annual fee per desktop, they are obligated to remove the software immediately.

Sure, someone may have 5 Flex-6000 series radios, but that represents a investment of between $12,500 to $35,000, and they may choose to balk at the idea of investing $1,000 to get the latest software for their 5 radios, but if they choose not to they lose none of the functionality their 5 radios offered before V2 is released.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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When the horse had been kicked to death, and those kicking the dead horse begin kicking one another, it is time to close the thread and let people reset, cool off, and begin a new thread with a new focus that may be more helpful, and more civil.

I think this was the intention when the other thread was closed.

Frankly, there has been more discussion allowed in this Community, even extremely negative discussion, than I have seen in many other company-run forums.

But you cannot compare this official product Community to some of the unmoderated trash and vitriol-filled independent forums out there where anything goes.
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Ned K1NJ

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    Even with positive comments and questions I try to take a deep breathe and
wait a day.  More often than not someone will have asked the same question
in a better way or the problem will have been resolved with the help of a bit
more thought.  Radio is fun.  Work more stations.

      Ned,  K1NJ

                     
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IW7DMH, Enzo

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I am trying to give a sense to all this, and like I am used to do, often look back to get the best from my work and correct my errors.
So now I have a question from the point of view of a SO2R contest station.
With the new 6400/M rig, which of the announced features in the SO2R board are already done? Which of them still require additional hardware? Will the second receiver be muted during the transmission with the first?
On the other hand, if I am right, the 6600/M cover all the 7 point just as it is (will be).
Just to be smart I cut & past the features summarized by Steve.

Thank you very much
Enzo

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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Enzo,

The 6600/6600M provide plug and play SO2R in one radio but the 6400/6400M do not.  With the 6400 models you would need two radios and a SO2R controller like you would with other rigs.  It is less expensive to buy one 6600 to get that capability.

Gerald
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Enzo, 

I missed your second question.  On the 6600 when in SO2R mode the second receiver is NOT muted.  All FLEX-6000s have full duplex mode (FDX) where you can listen while transmitting.  Only the 6600 and 6700 have the ability to do SO2R in a single radio because they both have two SCUs with their own separate preselectors.  
Gerald
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Lee - N2LEE

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After two or three days there was nothing new in those post. It quickly turned from constructive and feedback to a bitch session. 

The forum is for support and yes feedback. But If you were moderator and had to spend time doing the work customers are asking for instead of managing a bunch of cry baby's then you would do the same thing. The President of the company acknowledged he had read every post and responded.

Let There Be Change
Yes they introduced new products and yes some people hate that and some will love it. Welcome to the real world. Just like the rest of us they have to make decisions on based on a number of different limitations. Some engineering some financial and often times customers will disagree with those decisions. The great thing about a free market society is WE have a vote. We get to vote with our dollars. If we agree with companies decisions, they get our vote if not we go else where.

Strategic Direction
A lesson I learned many years ago is to bet on the company not the product. Now that sounds counter intuitive but it is the company's strategic direction that drives their product development, customer service and determines their longevity. Products and features will come and go and one year company A has the bells and whistles you want and next year company B has those features. We use to call this the "feature check box list". Anyone who buys a product based solely on this criteria will never be happy and will always be switching gear every time a new shiny "thing" comes out. Most of us probably know people like this.

Decision Process
There are (initial) product decisions Flex has made that I am not happy about. Such as dropping a broadcast balanced XLR connector and using a consumer 1/8" stereo mic input. But the (adult) long term decision process is based on more than a mic connector. I have to weigh the entire product line, software, long term company viability and cost.

It's NOT Beach Front Property
Finally I have to laugh at hams who complain about the value of their equipment. NO one in their right mind buys ham gear based on the value of future investment. Maybe a Collins S-Line holds some long term value but let's be honest with each other. The value of our gear drops like a lead weight the SECOND you open the box. IT'S ELECTRONICS !  The TV I bought last year is worth half  of what I paid. Ham gear is not much better. Yes, yes I know SDR is software based and yes it does have a longer lifespan because it's upgradeable with the click of a mouse. But it is not immune to devaluation. Buy the darn radio, use it, have fun, get on the air and don't look back. Most people who buys a NEW piece of ham gear buys it for reliability, warranty and cosmetics. The rest of us cheapskates buy used gear to get a deal. If you think buying any SDR radio is going to protect you for the next 20 years, you are going to be very disappointed. :)
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Rob Fissel

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Lee, couldn't agree with you more on these comments. Very succinct and to the point (especially points 1,2 and 4).

The forums have become a little unbearable over the last few days with the complaining and whining. I can't think of any other major radio manufacture that supports a community-based online venue that would allow much of this conduct to persist on their hosted platforms. 
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Rory - N6OIL

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Well, I'll say something that won't win any popularity contests. If you're not happy with FRS sell your radio and stop speaking ill of the company and move on and our forums can get back enjoying our Flex radios.
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Roy, I was thinking of saying that, but the last thing I would want to do is suggest to people to buy something eles. Maybe Flex is not for them. Then they can wine on another site? about their products. Oh wait there is no one to complain to....
but really I believe these same guys who have very few positive things to say will not leave Flex. They say they are going to,,but they know their radio's are really good, they just stir things up when a chance comes along. how do I know this?,,because they hold close to this forum and can't let go....
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Rory - N6OIL

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Bill my 6500 is 11 months old and am I butt hurt about the new rigs? no way that's called PROGRESS. Just yesterday I spent about 2 hours on the phone with OnStar asking about if Bluetooth upgrade would be available on my 2008 Duramax that I spent close to 60k on and they said the only way to get it is to buy a newer truck! I told them no thanks and disconnect my service since I'll be putting in a BlueStar module from CoStar in place of the OnStar unit at a cost of $279. Maybe it would be better if I went over to Reddit and pitched a fit like others have done here.   
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Lee - N2LEE

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Rob, I do not want to appear to be a Flex fan boy but I am happy with the product I am using. Is there room for improvement, OF COURSE. And believe me I have my own list, especially in the area of the GUI.

But what drive me crazy is seeing people complain issues that every product, company or service has is some way.

I also spent 20+ years in product marketing for a company that with revenue of 3 million dollars and 11 years later were 2.2 Billion. So I know first hand how difficult it is to produce a product that 1st pleases everyone, 2nd the challenge of engineering vs customer and marketing requirements. Not to mention that you are always short of resources and realize you could sell twice as many products if you only had more X (money, people, engineers, etc).

I have never met a single employee from Flex or visited their facility but I can guarantee they are peddling as fast and as hard as they can. You can bet there are some long nights and weekends working to solve bugs or get a release out on time. There is no way they could have gotten this far without that kind of effort.

What they are doing is fricken HARD and they have very big players breathing down their neck. There is no way they are sitting around drinking coffee and playing cards. :)  I would venture to say that they all realize what is at risk and take these issues a lot more seriously than any of us.

So I guess my comments more from frustration that its easy to sit back and complain. Don't get me wrong, they deserve and want feedback but if its not real constructive feedback they can use to make a better mouse trap then its just noise. And reading the recent comments they are more like static crashes. :)
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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@Rory, @Bill & @Rob,
Why do you keep reading the posts you found so unbearable? Don't you also have the choice to not read them?

So you buy a car brand, lets say Buick, and you buy the brand and always buy the same brand models.. Seems a great approach.... (sarcasm)

People understand they can buy whatever they want, why is it that they have to be told over and over again that they can buy other brands? Do you really think FRS would prefer that they all follow your advice and start buying other brands just so you do not have to endure their messages on this forum?
When you complain about the complainers, aren't you complaining as well? What makes your complaining any better?

If you disagree with the tone or content and find the whole exercise repetitive then stop posting, and stop reading the forum for a while.
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Bill -VA3WTB

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The reason is..
It is always a good thing for customers express their concerns. Everyone has that option, and it's good. and with respect. But what happens many times is people keep hitting the same nail over and over as if they think it changes anything, or think that if they keep it up Flex will change their practices. And other times some, make comments that are simply not true, misleading info, or misunderstandings. Then Tim or Gerald has to step in to correct the bad info.
Remember Flex employees read the post and hear us, but they do have a long term plan in place and all the complaining repeating and repeating the same thing changes very little, but we are heard. The fist time

No one wants people to buy another product, how ever I have read some post lately were some have not just expressed concerns but have mostly told Flex they are very unhappy with everything, including  how they run their company.

If people are so unhappy with the radio product or the software, then maybe a change is best and they will be happy with something eles.
Even when Gerald takes the time to explain why Flex does things, people tell him he does not know what he's talking about. that happened this week as well.
I did notice after Gerald explained what happened to V1 and how and why they decide on what features made it in and other didn't helped people understand the company choices.
But still their were some who said that he was not doing a good job and that Flex can not sustain it self the way they do things.
Some feel that this kind of sarcasm is constructive, I for one think it goes over the line.

So going ahead? if I see a post were someone rags on flex and says misinformed comments I will speak up and help set it correct. And use Tims or Gerald statements to be clear.
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Lee - N2LEE

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Bill having an opinion is one thing but being blind to reality is quite another issue. I have found that Flex wants to know what their customers think. And I believe they are talking to a number of different people to get input. But trying to please everyone is a no win situation.

Is there room for improvement with the SSDR software, absolutely. But if you look at the range of products they hit almost every market. The 6300/6400 is a total winner and especially now at $1999 it a heck of a lot of radio at a very good price point.

For the serious contester the 6600 hits every feature from what i can tell. And of course the 6700 is the flagship product for the ham who wants the top of the line.

Personally I think when the newest SSDR features come out for the entire product line, I think a lot the noise will drop. If users can get the same capability on their existing radio then that levels the playing field.

Of course you will see the whiners complaining about the option to pay for new versions, but the same people have been complaining about that from day one. Nothing new here, move along. :)

What I find interesting is some of us still use Windows XP or 7 because we did not see the need to move to Windows 10. I do not see the difference between deciding to stick with 1.X over 2.0 any different.

2.0 Puts More Pressure on Flex
I would like to point out some thing everyone has missed about Flex releasing a fee based upgrade system.

One of THE great advantages to Flex users is the fact that Flex is going to paid upgrade. The key issue everyone is overlooking is this now puts more pressure than ever to improve SSDR. Think about it from this perspective, if 2.0 does not live up to YOUR expectation then you will not upgrade. If you do not upgrade then Flex does not generate the necessary revenue needed to stay competitive and increase their market share.

Before when SSDR 1.x was free there was no immediate pressure to add new features. Their revenue was solely based on hardware sales. But now if 2.0 is good but 3.0 fails to live up to your expectations then no one will upgrade. Therefore they lose revenue.

So I submit that Flex is actually doing us a favor and putting the consumer in the driver's seat. Not the other way around.
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Rory - N6OIL

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@Salvador,
Because I can and I'm a stakeholder! Also, Lee hit the nail on the head, when "experts" tell Gerald, Tim or Steve they don't know what they are talking about who are they kidding these guys ARE FlexRadio! Like I said if you're not happy with Flex then leave and let us enjoy the fruits of Flex's labor without all the QRM! Look what happened over at HRD, yes people left because of Rick but many stayed and stuck it out. This is what I love about our country, freedom of speech but with that, you better have some thick skin when posting on forums because some people think it's there giving right to call you names and verbally abuse one another, I call this the "FaceBook Effect" 

If Flex was never invented I wonder who would have been the next big thing? Who needs knobs anyway!
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Michael Aust

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Well, this is how a Flex6600M would look like if there was no new Flex 
Technology 

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James Whiteway

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I'm in! I have my credit card ready! :-)
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Michael Coslo

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Tim? Looks like your BBQ rib warmer has materialized. Now to put the beer tap on the other side, and we're cookin'!
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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It's a little small.  Maybe an add-on for the PowerGenius XL.  I can put away some ribs :-D
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Ha, I knew it was not solid state!!!!
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Ken Hansen

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Anyone know about using a tube AUDIO Amp (RFI, interference) with a Flex?
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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Because I can and I'm a stakeholder!

So am I, if owning Flex gear makes me a stakeholder.

Also, Lee hit the nail on the head, when "experts" tell Gerald, Tim or Steve they don't know what they are talking about who are they kidding these guys ARE FlexRadio!

Why are you throwing me in that group? When have I told Gerald, Tim or Steve that they don't know what they are talking about?

Like I said if you're not happy with Flex then leave and let us enjoy the fruits of Flex's labor without all the QRM!  

Are you asking me to leave the forum? Are you asking me to sell my equipment? Do you really think this is appropriate? If you take the time to look at my posting history in the last 3 years in this forum, can you honestly frame me as a hater with some kind of agenda? I have gone above and beyond trying to help other Flex users, I even have tutorial videos in Spanish, a blog dedicated to Flex, magazine editorials about Flex, do you really consider me QRM??  

Look what happened over at HRD, yes people left because of Rick but many stayed and stuck it out. 
I have no idea what happened at HRD ... unless you are talking about the active censorship to people that said things they didn't like about their product. If that is the case I do not understand your point here. if anything it makes my point about allowing all kinds of opinions in the forum.

This is what I love about our country, freedom of speech ....
The 1st country to establish freedom of speech wasn't the USA, the US wasn't even the 2nd, you have to look across the pond in Europe for that. I see no need for "patriotic" statements to make a point about freedom of speech. 

but with that, you better have some thick skin when posting on forums because some people think it's there giving right to call you names and verbally abuse one another, I call this the "FaceBook Effect" .

Calling names and verbally abusing one another is not acceptable period, and I think Tim does an outstanding job controlling it in the forum, while providing enough leeway for all kinds of opinions across the spectrum.

The reason I posted was to answer mainly to Lee N2LEE because he had phrases such as "quickly turned from constructive and feedback to a bitch session" ; " managing a bunch of cry baby's"  and "reading the recent comments they are more like static crashes." which are all instances of a bit of name calling. But I also posted because I value some of the other things he also said, for example:
 
"I do not want to appear to be a Flex fan boy but I am happy with the product I am using. Is there room for improvement, OF COURSE. And believe me I have my own list, especially in the area of the GUI."

"There are (initial) product decisions Flex has made that I am not happy about. Such as dropping a broadcast balanced XLR connector and using a consumer 1/8" stereo mic input. But the (adult) long term decision process is based on more than a mic connector. I have to weigh the entire product line, software, long term company viability and cost."


And then on later posts:

"One of THE great advantages to Flex users is the fact that Flex is going to paid upgrade. The key issue everyone is overlooking is this now puts more pressure than ever to improve SSDR. Think about it from this perspective, if 2.0 does not live up to YOUR expectation then you will not upgrade. If you do not upgrade then Flex does not generate the necessary revenue needed to stay competitive and increase their market share." 

and

"Personally I think when the newest SSDR features come out for the entire product line, I think a lot the noise will drop. If users can get the same capability on their existing radio then that levels the playing field."


And you know what? These are all things I agree with. If someone disagrees with me but also provides interesting and well presented points of view, then we are in for an enjoyable session of forum dialogue.

If I didn't respect you, or Lee or Bill I wouldn't even bother posting.

I post because I care, because I think Flex can do thing better and in doing so I will benefit. I post in this forum, and continue to do so because I have learned a lot from it. For example, In the last 24 hrs Steve posted about Nyquist zones and Chris about CESSB pointing to a resource I had not red before. This is a great place to get information, to learn. 

But let's not make it a place where all we get to do is stroke FRS' ego... they don't need that. Praises are always welcomed *FRS gets tons of those in the forum). But criticism is useful too.

@Bill  You said

"And other times some, make comments that are simply not true, misleading info, or misunderstandings. Then Tim or Gerald has to step in to correct the bad info."

and then

"Even when Gerald takes the time to explain why Flex does things, people tell him he does not know what he's talking about. that happened this week as well.
I did notice after Gerald explained what happened to V1 and how and why they decide on what features made it in and other didn't helped people understand the company choices.
But still their were some who said that he was not doing a good job and that Flex can not sustain it self the way they do things."

So if Gerald and Tim can hold their own in a forum, explaining things and "correcting the bad info" as you put it... why do you think you or I, or anyone needs to come in and "defend" them? And, don't you think that regardless of what they write, there will always be dissenting opinions. About a year ago we had a group of people posting that went over the line too many times and Tim had to step in. I think FRS does an outstanding job (Tim deserves a rise after each Hamvention)

New Radios

The announcement of the 6400 and 6600 radios was a major one. It caught a lot of us by surprise. A lot of us could expect new hardware.... we just didn't expect REPLACEMENTS of current 6000 series radios. The 6300 is a 3 year old model... that is a baby in Ham Gear terms. Had it been a QRP radio like a 6100 and a model with VHF and UHF that added to the line of RADIOS I assure you that it would have been easier to digest.

This new paradigm changes things... we could even think (*probably wrongly) that Flex radios from now on will have a shorter lifespan before they are replaced with newer models. I understand that the 6300 and 6500 are still supported and will get the upgrades, and all that.... but you have to admit this was like tectonic plates shifting and the forum reacted. Some enthusiastically and other not so much. 

Only a very small percentage of Flex users around the world had a chance to be at the banquet or to speak to FRS in person in Hara. So this is the place where we are getting the information. And it is the place where we are expressing our opinions while the data trickles down, slowly.
(Edited)
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Ken Hansen

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>> "This is what I love about our country, freedom
>> of speech"

> "The 1st country to establish freedom of speech
> wasn't the USA"

No one said it was, he said "what I love about our country (is) freedom of speech"

I don't see the word "first" in that statement.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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This is enough.  Period.  You want to make this between yourselves, please take it off the Community.
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Dave - W6OVP

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My 1931 Chevy 5-passenger sedan did not have an automatic transmission. And no automatic choke, nor hydraulic brakes. The factory added these features and an electric windshield wiper (on both sides!) after I bought it, thereby devaluing my investment. I contacted the factory demanding compensation for my loss. But they just laughed.

Even worse, my Altair and Imsai computers went obsolete as quickly as next months edition of a computer magazine. And that phenomena went on for many years. Guess that's the danger of playing on the cutting edge of any technology.
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Rick WN2C

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I have been looking at the classifieds on QRZ on Eham and do not see any Flex equipment listed for sale listed after Dayton. So what is all the jabber-jawing about? Look, if you already own a Flex (pick a model) then you have one of the best radios out there. To say that "my radio is worth less" to day than it was last week is nonsense. If you go out and buy any radio new or used, it will be worth less tomorrow. Just look at it this way...you already have a great radio. Just think of the money you save by not going out and buying the latest K Y I. Oh and you could get a new radio for just $200.
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Giulio

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Rick, with new models the old 6000s lost appeal. But, writing comments here is time wasting. Only you from K and VA have words of wisdom...and the TRADE UP PROGRAM. 

Enjoy ham radio!!!!!
Giulio
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Giulio,

I fully understand and can appreciate your frustration over the decrease in the resale price of the 6300 and 6500.  In particular, because there is not an equivalent type of trade in/up program available in Europe, which I suspect is partially due to VAT since a resale would be a taxable transaction and US state based sales tax, which has a lower rate, is not applied globally on certain inter-state sales transactions.  We have heard your concerns in this regard and will be engaging our distributors to explore ways to see if a trade in/up type of program would be feasible.

However, I disagree with your statement they have lost their appeal.  My belief is they have actually increased their appeal.  Let me explain. 

The FLEX-6300 is an excellent radio with a highly rated receiver and extensibility due to SmartSDR.  The intrinsic value of the radio is in SmartSDR which the radio still runs and will continue to run and receive updates because that is how we engineered SmartSDR from the beginning.  For the ham on a budget, getting a transceiver of its performance caliber second hand for less than the price of a 6400 and receiving the ability to add new features and software based performance upgrades with SmartSDR releases represents an incredible value. In addition, if panic selling ensues that drives the resale prices down, that appeal increases. 

I suspect that since there is elevated excitement over the new 6400s and 6600s right now, that there will be a lull in 6300 and 6500 sales as the market stabilizes.  Let's see what things look like in several months to see if my predictions come to fruition.
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SteveJ

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You need to look at the QTH.COM ads.  There were many Flex radios for sale the Dayton announcement.
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Terry Tankersley

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My 6500 still works just fine.
K7NY
Terry
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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I have looked at QTH.com. There are 4 FLEX-6300s for sale.  Only 1 was posted during or after Dayton.   

Appeal and resale value are two completely different things.
(Edited)
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Terry Tankersley

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Looking forward to seeing the Flex group at SEA PAC.
K7NY
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Lee - N2LEE

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Giulio, I have to agree with Tim on this one. Right now is a great time to get a used Flex. If you don't need dual receivers or SO2R then the existing product line is still a fantastic radio.

From what I can tell from Gerald's video interview, the same specs and software features. So a Flex is a Flex. One might have a few extra bells but they all have the same whistles from what I can tell.

 
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Ken Hansen

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I bought my Flex-6300 a couple months ago because it represented a great value and a big step up in performance over my traditional HF radios, and because of my ability TODAY to control it remotely inside my house.

I bought a refurb unit w/ 2 year warranty, and it cost me about as much as a new Flex-6400 WILL cost in several months, when they ship.

The release of the new models do nothing to impact the performance of my radio going forward, but the release of the new SSDR software will improve my radio, if I decide I want/need the upgrade.

My 6300 benefited from years of free upgrades during it's market life before I bought it, and I enjoy each of those improvements, and it will continue to benefit from them well into the future without opening my wallet.

Selfishly, I would love it if free software updates were included for the warranty period of the radio., but I never expected that when I bought the radio.
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Michael Coslo

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Looking to see what I can get a used 7600 at some time soon. Perhaps I can take one off the hands of one of the terribly dissatisfied customers.
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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I know of a few university campuses that have some "safe zones", where they can go and feel safe.
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Michael Coslo

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Well, it certainly isn't a safe zone in here. There isn't anything wrong with airing complaints about the radios. There isn't anything wrong with defending it.  But when it gets to the point of obvious hatred for the things, a safe zone isn't the answer, it's selling the darn thing and buying something else that will make the poor person happy.  We should all be happy, life is too short to consistently harbor anger about a radio.
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Dave - W6OVP

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I just love my loaded TS-530S. It was very expensive when I bought it new in 1981 as a gift to my Dad; about the same price as a reconditioned FLEX 6300 today (adjusted for inflation). And  it still rates 5/5 with over 50 reviews on eHam.

It works today exactly the same way it did in 1981 and still looks like new. All the features which made it famous are still there. What fun it still is!

Of course Kenwood soon replaced it with newer TS- models which were similar but had even more nice features. Sort of reminds me of my FLEX 6300. And why I'm keeping them both.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Official Response
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