I can't belive: "This conversation is no longer open for comments or replies."

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  • Updated 3 years ago
Critics are bad if they are only negative, this is a concept I can understand but I have never seen a company react like this: close a discussion!
You have burned the value of so many FLEX and the trust of so many customers who have believed in the project and in the company. For 3 years we waited, we got bugs, we had to use flex interface software with external accessories etc etc. Your answer was: new models, paid software, and no upgrade hardware options!
Your customers are just asking for one thing: "hardware upgrade" not to have to drop our flexes, we would have paid for it because you're giving us something in return.
I keep my Flex 6300 in the shack because it is not possible to sell it, when I will have a new radio, a real radio, I will plant flowers inside the Flex so at least it will have a function in the shack and will definitely not have bugs or other defects.
Think about what you are writing to do not offend, do not just think about yourself, Flex's property is yours but "Flex are your customers" are not you, we've bought all your radio, and we're many many more of you.
Thank you
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Lino Lombardi

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  • sad

Posted 3 years ago

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Donovan van Loggerenberg

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Yesterday when I posted a similar comment. It was deleted by the Moderator.

All I can say, is we feel let down. My 6300 was purchased in December. By January I was trying to get answers about things I was promised that have not materialised. now my 6300 is obsolete and the issue will never be sorted. I feel ripped off.

Donovan

ZS2DL

(Edited)
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Steve (N9SKM)

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You do know that SSDR software isn't going anywhere right? And that is what will update and fix issues right?
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Rick WN2C

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I purchased my 6300 in the middle of 2015 so it is about to go off warranty. I have not had one problem with it (yet) and am very happy with its performance. The only problem I did have was with the computer and DAX. The computer I was using was running Vista 64 Bit and did not like DAX.
If I can afford to, I will either do a upgrade purchase or buy a 6400M outright. I have read the "now closed threads" and am befuddled as to why so many are outraged at Flex for bringing out new equipment before V2 software. Yes I too thought that my 6300 is 'now worthless' but I now realize that it will continue to work just like my Drake radios still work. Now I have calmed down from my initial reaction of what just happened to the value of my Flex. I think I will just continue to use one of the better radios that is (was) available in ham radio.

p.s. Can't wait for ver.2  where do I pay?
(Edited)
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Dan -- KC4GO

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From Tim and other Flex folks talking about SmartSDR going forward, "6300 and 6500 too unless there are particular hardware options that are not applicable to those models"
We have that today where the 6700 can do diversity and 2 meters and 6300 and 6500 can not. Nothing has changed. 
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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I've never gotten an upgrade for any of my icoms. Did I miss something?
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Bill -VA3WTB

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@ Lino  When was the last time you spoke with the CEO of Icom? or a high ranking employee. How often do they post and talk to their customers directly on a daily basses?
Flex staff are right out there for us to yell at and call names, tell them that Flex radio is junk, flower pots? And that they know nothing about software or how to run a company. I read a post yesterday saying that Flex is dishonest, shafting customers.

But we don't all agree with you and everyone eles crying. Flex ows you nothing.
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Chris DL5NAM

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Ria, i have gotten a upgrade from Icom directly for my TRX. Dont know was it the first time or last time also.  :-)
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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My icoms must be too old. I did see that they have firmware updates for the newer radios. I have a 756 pro3 and a 746. I am keeping the 746 for 2 meters but the Pro3 is going to go up for sale soon. 
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Ken Davis

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Points are being made on new stuff coming about every year is well taken and true and I support innovation 100%. I am not upset that they did the upgrade, but how they handled the marketing aspects has caused many loyal Flex owners to lose more than what we typically bargained for when we made our initial new radio purchase decision.

I have read in several posts that Flex will work to keep the value up on my 6300. I don’t believe that is true at all. If I were Gerald, my last worry would be the value of my 6300.  I don't think Flex is doing this on purpose, I think they are just wrong in their marketing philosophy.

Here are my points; the MSRP for the 6400 is $1,999 and the MSRP of the 6300 is $2,499 which makes my 6300 worth $500 less today than last week simply based on pricing policy.  For Flex to even break even on their trade-up program, they will have to offer something significantly less than $1,999 for a 6300 which will further de-value my 7 month old 6300. The only good that can come from a trade-up program is I hope that Flex will trash most trade-ins to keep from flooding the market with cheap used radios which would further de-vlaue my radio. Make no mistake, they are in business to sell NEW, not used radios.

At this point I believe my 7 month old 6300 is worth ~$1,200 until V2 is released and then it will go down more unless I spend the $$ to upgrade.  I think owners of 6300 and 6500 radios should be offered a V2 no charge upgrade to restore part of the huge loss we are suffering. Not even autos lose this much value in 7 months. I fully expected to lose value from day one, but not ... 60%.

This is just my opinion and I am certain many will disagree. I love my 6300 but I am not too crazy about Flex's marketing programs.

Thanks for listening and 73
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Rob G6EIH

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Join the Distributor Take back Scheme here to comply with WEEE
https://dts.valpak.co.uk/DTS/Welcome

 
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Thanks for the link.
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Jerry WA9UKB

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Same feeling I have about my 6500 taking a nose dive Paid 4200.00 new could have sold right before may 18, 2017 for 3200.00, " although not my intention" or if I wanted to get the most to go for a 6700, now after May 21, 2017, ill be very fortunate to get 1500.00 at most. I understand everything depreciates at different rates, Its just a vertical dive in 1 day for this one.

Still a good radio and better when it quits locking up, 3 instances in 2 hours on last night using the Maestro only and latest firmware on both.

Jerry, 

(Edited)
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Steve (N9SKM)

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Lots of speculation there Jerry. While the value of the 6500 has undoubtedly been lowered some by the new rigs 1500 is just a number that sounded good to you. According to the classifieds i have seen the selling market for a 6500 is somewhere in the 3 to 3500 range.

 I will add that if you want to trade up you should take advantage of the program that FRS unlike others offer. They were extremely reasonable when i traded my 6300 up to a 6500. it was at least as much as they were listed for in the classifieds at the time.

Steven
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Ken Hansen

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Jerry, today is your lucky day! You said "I'll be very fortunate to get $1500 for it", well I'll happily give you $1,600 for your Flex-6500 assuming it is in fine working order, just let me know where to send the cashier' check.

Eagerly awaiting your confirmation, Ken
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Jim Gilliam

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Where I part company with Flex is the inability to use 2.0 on my two flexes for the price of the upgrade. That stings and points to a change of attitude with Flex. This attitude is what scares me. Gong from a "mom and pop" manufacturer to the "big time" makes flex fade in with the others.


Jim, K6QE

(Edited)
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Steve (N9SKM)

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Paying for a licence for each piece of equipment? Blasphemy!

Oh wait that is how most companies do it. Doesnt matter if i own both machines Rockwell isn't going to let me run a licenced copy of RsLogix on 2 without paying for it. Same as the majority of software setups.
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Ned K1NJ

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   As Flex has grown, so has the likelihood that a user might have more than one
Flex radio.  At this point that likelihood may increase significantly.  Some may want
to keep their older rig as backup, anticipating the day when Murphy's law kicks in
on the nice new one.  To many it would be an advantage to keep all rigs at the
same software level.  At this "turning point" for Flex and its customer base, the
concept of a site license might work.  Just as a suggestion, perhaps $200 for
the first copy and $100 each for subsequent copy could be amenable.

Ned,  K1NJ

 
(Edited)
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Lee - N2LEE

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Ned this is a standard software licensing model. Will Microsoft allow you to install Windows and as many machines that you own ? 

What if you sell your backup rig, are you willing to pay back them back for the discount your received ? 

Software licensing can be a nightmare to track and deal and the simpler it is the better for everyone.
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Ned K1NJ

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       Yes, this is in fact the most basic standard software licensing model.
And, yes, Microsoft has organized site licensing policies.  MATLAB
has several licensing structures based not only on group size, but on types of
usage.  Flex can mold their own policies to fit their desired outcome.  I'll bet that
if you left your rig or Maestro available on-line, they could find it and make modifications as necessary.  To the "system" the radio is the user; not the
individual.  Flex has a rig (and necessarily software) transfer policy for
ownership changes in place already.  N. B., I am not -pushing- this idea, just
suggesting a possibility.  With V2 in place, Flex could find every existing 6000
series rig that wants to be found.  I have a hunch that the V2 system will be
serial number aware.  Just sayin'.

Take Care,
Ned,  K1NJ

     
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Ken Hansen

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Microsoft site licensing is per user/device PER YEAR, and is merely a pricing reduction, not a single license for unlimited installations at a given location.

For example, Windows costs, say, $100 to purchase, Office $250. And once purchased can be used in perpetuity with no upgrade rights. On the other hand, if a school chooses to go with a site license, instead of paying $350 one-time, a school can pay $35/year for access to the latest version of Windows and Office that is released during the year. When the school stops paying the $35/annual fee per desktop, they are obligated to remove the software immediately.

Sure, someone may have 5 Flex-6000 series radios, but that represents a investment of between $12,500 to $35,000, and they may choose to balk at the idea of investing $1,000 to get the latest software for their 5 radios, but if they choose not to they lose none of the functionality their 5 radios offered before V2 is released.
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Ken - NM9P

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When the horse had been kicked to death, and those kicking the dead horse begin kicking one another, it is time to close the thread and let people reset, cool off, and begin a new thread with a new focus that may be more helpful, and more civil.

I think this was the intention when the other thread was closed.

Frankly, there has been more discussion allowed in this Community, even extremely negative discussion, than I have seen in many other company-run forums.

But you cannot compare this official product Community to some of the unmoderated trash and vitriol-filled independent forums out there where anything goes.
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Ned K1NJ

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    Even with positive comments and questions I try to take a deep breathe and
wait a day.  More often than not someone will have asked the same question
in a better way or the problem will have been resolved with the help of a bit
more thought.  Radio is fun.  Work more stations.

      Ned,  K1NJ

                     
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IW7DMH, Enzo

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I am trying to give a sense to all this, and like I am used to do, often look back to get the best from my work and correct my errors.
So now I have a question from the point of view of a SO2R contest station.
With the new 6400/M rig, which of the announced features in the SO2R board are already done? Which of them still require additional hardware? Will the second receiver be muted during the transmission with the first?
On the other hand, if I am right, the 6600/M cover all the 7 point just as it is (will be).
Just to be smart I cut & past the features summarized by Steve.

Thank you very much
Enzo

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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Enzo,

The 6600/6600M provide plug and play SO2R in one radio but the 6400/6400M do not.  With the 6400 models you would need two radios and a SO2R controller like you would with other rigs.  It is less expensive to buy one 6600 to get that capability.

Gerald
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Enzo, 

I missed your second question.  On the 6600 when in SO2R mode the second receiver is NOT muted.  All FLEX-6000s have full duplex mode (FDX) where you can listen while transmitting.  Only the 6600 and 6700 have the ability to do SO2R in a single radio because they both have two SCUs with their own separate preselectors.  
Gerald
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Lee - N2LEE

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After two or three days there was nothing new in those post. It quickly turned from constructive and feedback to a bitch session. 

The forum is for support and yes feedback. But If you were moderator and had to spend time doing the work customers are asking for instead of managing a bunch of cry baby's then you would do the same thing. The President of the company acknowledged he had read every post and responded.

Let There Be Change
Yes they introduced new products and yes some people hate that and some will love it. Welcome to the real world. Just like the rest of us they have to make decisions on based on a number of different limitations. Some engineering some financial and often times customers will disagree with those decisions. The great thing about a free market society is WE have a vote. We get to vote with our dollars. If we agree with companies decisions, they get our vote if not we go else where.

Strategic Direction
A lesson I learned many years ago is to bet on the company not the product. Now that sounds counter intuitive but it is the company's strategic direction that drives their product development, customer service and determines their longevity. Products and features will come and go and one year company A has the bells and whistles you want and next year company B has those features. We use to call this the "feature check box list". Anyone who buys a product based solely on this criteria will never be happy and will always be switching gear every time a new shiny "thing" comes out. Most of us probably know people like this.

Decision Process
There are (initial) product decisions Flex has made that I am not happy about. Such as dropping a broadcast balanced XLR connector and using a consumer 1/8" stereo mic input. But the (adult) long term decision process is based on more than a mic connector. I have to weigh the entire product line, software, long term company viability and cost.

It's NOT Beach Front Property
Finally I have to laugh at hams who complain about the value of their equipment. NO one in their right mind buys ham gear based on the value of future investment. Maybe a Collins S-Line holds some long term value but let's be honest with each other. The value of our gear drops like a lead weight the SECOND you open the box. IT'S ELECTRONICS !  The TV I bought last year is worth half  of what I paid. Ham gear is not much better. Yes, yes I know SDR is software based and yes it does have a longer lifespan because it's upgradeable with the click of a mouse. But it is not immune to devaluation. Buy the darn radio, use it, have fun, get on the air and don't look back. Most people who buys a NEW piece of ham gear buys it for reliability, warranty and cosmetics. The rest of us cheapskates buy used gear to get a deal. If you think buying any SDR radio is going to protect you for the next 20 years, you are going to be very disappointed. :)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Ha, I knew it was not solid state!!!!
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Ken Hansen

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Anyone know about using a tube AUDIO Amp (RFI, interference) with a Flex?
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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Because I can and I'm a stakeholder!

So am I, if owning Flex gear makes me a stakeholder.

Also, Lee hit the nail on the head, when "experts" tell Gerald, Tim or Steve they don't know what they are talking about who are they kidding these guys ARE FlexRadio!

Why are you throwing me in that group? When have I told Gerald, Tim or Steve that they don't know what they are talking about?

Like I said if you're not happy with Flex then leave and let us enjoy the fruits of Flex's labor without all the QRM!  

Are you asking me to leave the forum? Are you asking me to sell my equipment? Do you really think this is appropriate? If you take the time to look at my posting history in the last 3 years in this forum, can you honestly frame me as a hater with some kind of agenda? I have gone above and beyond trying to help other Flex users, I even have tutorial videos in Spanish, a blog dedicated to Flex, magazine editorials about Flex, do you really consider me QRM??  

Look what happened over at HRD, yes people left because of Rick but many stayed and stuck it out. 
I have no idea what happened at HRD ... unless you are talking about the active censorship to people that said things they didn't like about their product. If that is the case I do not understand your point here. if anything it makes my point about allowing all kinds of opinions in the forum.

This is what I love about our country, freedom of speech ....
The 1st country to establish freedom of speech wasn't the USA, the US wasn't even the 2nd, you have to look across the pond in Europe for that. I see no need for "patriotic" statements to make a point about freedom of speech. 

but with that, you better have some thick skin when posting on forums because some people think it's there giving right to call you names and verbally abuse one another, I call this the "FaceBook Effect" .

Calling names and verbally abusing one another is not acceptable period, and I think Tim does an outstanding job controlling it in the forum, while providing enough leeway for all kinds of opinions across the spectrum.

The reason I posted was to answer mainly to Lee N2LEE because he had phrases such as "quickly turned from constructive and feedback to a bitch session" ; " managing a bunch of cry baby's"  and "reading the recent comments they are more like static crashes." which are all instances of a bit of name calling. But I also posted because I value some of the other things he also said, for example:
 
"I do not want to appear to be a Flex fan boy but I am happy with the product I am using. Is there room for improvement, OF COURSE. And believe me I have my own list, especially in the area of the GUI."

"There are (initial) product decisions Flex has made that I am not happy about. Such as dropping a broadcast balanced XLR connector and using a consumer 1/8" stereo mic input. But the (adult) long term decision process is based on more than a mic connector. I have to weigh the entire product line, software, long term company viability and cost."


And then on later posts:

"One of THE great advantages to Flex users is the fact that Flex is going to paid upgrade. The key issue everyone is overlooking is this now puts more pressure than ever to improve SSDR. Think about it from this perspective, if 2.0 does not live up to YOUR expectation then you will not upgrade. If you do not upgrade then Flex does not generate the necessary revenue needed to stay competitive and increase their market share." 

and

"Personally I think when the newest SSDR features come out for the entire product line, I think a lot the noise will drop. If users can get the same capability on their existing radio then that levels the playing field."


And you know what? These are all things I agree with. If someone disagrees with me but also provides interesting and well presented points of view, then we are in for an enjoyable session of forum dialogue.

If I didn't respect you, or Lee or Bill I wouldn't even bother posting.

I post because I care, because I think Flex can do thing better and in doing so I will benefit. I post in this forum, and continue to do so because I have learned a lot from it. For example, In the last 24 hrs Steve posted about Nyquist zones and Chris about CESSB pointing to a resource I had not red before. This is a great place to get information, to learn. 

But let's not make it a place where all we get to do is stroke FRS' ego... they don't need that. Praises are always welcomed *FRS gets tons of those in the forum). But criticism is useful too.

@Bill  You said

"And other times some, make comments that are simply not true, misleading info, or misunderstandings. Then Tim or Gerald has to step in to correct the bad info."

and then

"Even when Gerald takes the time to explain why Flex does things, people tell him he does not know what he's talking about. that happened this week as well.
I did notice after Gerald explained what happened to V1 and how and why they decide on what features made it in and other didn't helped people understand the company choices.
But still their were some who said that he was not doing a good job and that Flex can not sustain it self the way they do things."

So if Gerald and Tim can hold their own in a forum, explaining things and "correcting the bad info" as you put it... why do you think you or I, or anyone needs to come in and "defend" them? And, don't you think that regardless of what they write, there will always be dissenting opinions. About a year ago we had a group of people posting that went over the line too many times and Tim had to step in. I think FRS does an outstanding job (Tim deserves a rise after each Hamvention)

New Radios

The announcement of the 6400 and 6600 radios was a major one. It caught a lot of us by surprise. A lot of us could expect new hardware.... we just didn't expect REPLACEMENTS of current 6000 series radios. The 6300 is a 3 year old model... that is a baby in Ham Gear terms. Had it been a QRP radio like a 6100 and a model with VHF and UHF that added to the line of RADIOS I assure you that it would have been easier to digest.

This new paradigm changes things... we could even think (*probably wrongly) that Flex radios from now on will have a shorter lifespan before they are replaced with newer models. I understand that the 6300 and 6500 are still supported and will get the upgrades, and all that.... but you have to admit this was like tectonic plates shifting and the forum reacted. Some enthusiastically and other not so much. 

Only a very small percentage of Flex users around the world had a chance to be at the banquet or to speak to FRS in person in Hara. So this is the place where we are getting the information. And it is the place where we are expressing our opinions while the data trickles down, slowly.
(Edited)
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Ken Hansen

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>> "This is what I love about our country, freedom
>> of speech"

> "The 1st country to establish freedom of speech
> wasn't the USA"

No one said it was, he said "what I love about our country (is) freedom of speech"

I don't see the word "first" in that statement.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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This is enough.  Period.  You want to make this between yourselves, please take it off the Community.
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Dave - W6OVP

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My 1931 Chevy 5-passenger sedan did not have an automatic transmission. And no automatic choke, nor hydraulic brakes. The factory added these features and an electric windshield wiper (on both sides!) after I bought it, thereby devaluing my investment. I contacted the factory demanding compensation for my loss. But they just laughed.

Even worse, my Altair and Imsai computers went obsolete as quickly as next months edition of a computer magazine. And that phenomena went on for many years. Guess that's the danger of playing on the cutting edge of any technology.
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Rick WN2C

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I have been looking at the classifieds on QRZ on Eham and do not see any Flex equipment listed for sale listed after Dayton. So what is all the jabber-jawing about? Look, if you already own a Flex (pick a model) then you have one of the best radios out there. To say that "my radio is worth less" to day than it was last week is nonsense. If you go out and buy any radio new or used, it will be worth less tomorrow. Just look at it this way...you already have a great radio. Just think of the money you save by not going out and buying the latest K Y I. Oh and you could get a new radio for just $200.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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I have looked at QTH.com. There are 4 FLEX-6300s for sale.  Only 1 was posted during or after Dayton.   

Appeal and resale value are two completely different things.
(Edited)
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Terry Tankersley

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Looking forward to seeing the Flex group at SEA PAC.
K7NY
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Lee - N2LEE

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Giulio, I have to agree with Tim on this one. Right now is a great time to get a used Flex. If you don't need dual receivers or SO2R then the existing product line is still a fantastic radio.

From what I can tell from Gerald's video interview, the same specs and software features. So a Flex is a Flex. One might have a few extra bells but they all have the same whistles from what I can tell.

 
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Ken Hansen

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I bought my Flex-6300 a couple months ago because it represented a great value and a big step up in performance over my traditional HF radios, and because of my ability TODAY to control it remotely inside my house.

I bought a refurb unit w/ 2 year warranty, and it cost me about as much as a new Flex-6400 WILL cost in several months, when they ship.

The release of the new models do nothing to impact the performance of my radio going forward, but the release of the new SSDR software will improve my radio, if I decide I want/need the upgrade.

My 6300 benefited from years of free upgrades during it's market life before I bought it, and I enjoy each of those improvements, and it will continue to benefit from them well into the future without opening my wallet.

Selfishly, I would love it if free software updates were included for the warranty period of the radio., but I never expected that when I bought the radio.
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Michael Coslo

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Looking to see what I can get a used 7600 at some time soon. Perhaps I can take one off the hands of one of the terribly dissatisfied customers.
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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I know of a few university campuses that have some "safe zones", where they can go and feel safe.
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Michael Coslo

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Well, it certainly isn't a safe zone in here. There isn't anything wrong with airing complaints about the radios. There isn't anything wrong with defending it.  But when it gets to the point of obvious hatred for the things, a safe zone isn't the answer, it's selling the darn thing and buying something else that will make the poor person happy.  We should all be happy, life is too short to consistently harbor anger about a radio.
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Dave - W6OVP

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I just love my loaded TS-530S. It was very expensive when I bought it new in 1981 as a gift to my Dad; about the same price as a reconditioned FLEX 6300 today (adjusted for inflation). And  it still rates 5/5 with over 50 reviews on eHam.

It works today exactly the same way it did in 1981 and still looks like new. All the features which made it famous are still there. What fun it still is!

Of course Kenwood soon replaced it with newer TS- models which were similar but had even more nice features. Sort of reminds me of my FLEX 6300. And why I'm keeping them both.
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Official Response
I have closed this topic becuase the replies have gotten personal, again.  This really will not be tolerated.  Please review the Community guidelines, they are listed below for your convenience.

And remember when using the Community always show respect to others regardless of their opinions. Give people the benefit of the doubt, just like you would if talking to them in person. Posts that include personal attacks, overtly negative comments, non-constructive criticism, falsehoods, defamation of character, libelous speech, or gratuitous profanity will be removed, as they do not contribute to the community atmosphere we want to maintain. Any pattern of poor behavior may result in losing your Community posting privileges.

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