How to obtain SO2R 2BSIQ or a 400 QSO rate w Flex

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  • Updated 4 months ago
  • (Edited)
Follwing a discussion with Jon EA2OT on how to obtain the effective 2BSIQ QSO rate that well known contester CT1BOH introduced here is the continuing of this evaluation we started on another thread.
Background:
"Thank you again for the feedback. I can ́t tell you how to solve the audio switching issue because I "still" don ́t own a 6600 or 6700. I will really appreciate if you can continue with some more tests. I have been using a 6300 for almost 3 years but I just sold it to buy a new one. The purchase decision of a 6600 will depend on these audio switching capabilities.

As I explained before, I have been doing 2BSIQ operation during the last 3 CQ WW CW using 2 radios and a Microham u2R. With this device it is possible to configure the audio you want to hear at each "QSO moment". The configuration I was using is as follows:
- Stereo audio selected on N1MM+. If no TX, RX1 in left ear, RX2 in right ear
- Microham receives the info from the 2 radio ́s PTTs from N1MM. When TX1, RX2 in both ears. When TX2, RX1 in both ears.

Could you please try to make the following tests?

Test 1:

Please configure N1MM in SO2R operation, create 2 different radios with one CAT asigned to each one ot them (Slice A = Radio 1 with CAT1 asigned, Slice B = Radio 2 CAT2 asigned). Then choose Stereo mode with tilde key and select "Swap other" and "Focus other", and very important, select "Run" on both radios as well.

At this moment, if no TX, you shall be hearing both radios in Stereo (Slice A on left ear, Slice B on right ear), is that correct?

Then, if TX1 you shall hear RX2 on both ears (or are you hearing RX2 just on right ear?) Opposite situation when TX2... This audio switching is happening with the help of "Swap other" or "focus other" I ́m not sure which one of them (Sorry I can ́t test it at this moment on N1MM).

Test 2:

If the previous test is not working as expected, please try using "Dueling CQ" feature of N1MM with "Ctrl+B". An extract from N1MM manual explaining what "Dueling CQ" mode does:

Dueling CQ's will send CQ alternately on each radio (Ctrl+B)
If dueling CQ's is enabled, and CQ sent then both radios become Run radios
Ctrl+F1 or Ctrl+Enter will not start Dueling CQ
Dueling SSB and CW CQ's (different modes in each Entry window) are supported
When you disable Dueling CQs, the pre-existing SO2R options are restored
I hope one ot these 2 ways to operate 2BSIQ will work! Cross my fingers.

Please let me know if it works.

Thank you!

Jon, EA2OT"
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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Posted 4 months ago

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Jon, EA2OT

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Hi Kari,

Thank you for opening this post. I hope we will be able to find a way to operate 2BSIQ with a 6600 or 6700 and N1MM. As I said in the other post where this conversation started, I have been doing 2BSIQ or Dueling CQs since 3 years with 2 radios and a Microham u2R, and I would like to do it with just a 6600 or a 6700. My purchase decision will be based on the possibility to do 2BSIQ with a flex radio with 2 SCUs.

To elaborate more about how the Microham u2R handles the audio switching for 2BSIQ operation, the device comunicates with N1MM to receive Stereo or Mono status (switched with tilde key in N1MM) and also the PTT status. Here is an extract of the microham user manual to elaborate on how it works:



The comunication with N1MM is handled by the MK2R protocol despite the OTRSP protocol Flex radios are using exchanges the same information as far as I know, so there should be no problem on that. The important point here is the last sentence of the photo: The "Stereo" state overrides all other states. This means that if Stereo Mode is selected on N1MM, when no TX, you will have stereo audio on your headphones and when you TX on one radio/slice you will hear the other one in both ears.

I think N1MM "focus other" function shall handle the audio switching when TXing as we expect when both radios/slices are in RUN mode, please let me know the result of your testings.

Thank you!

Jon, EA2OT
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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HiJon, how do you connect radio 1 and 2 output (the CW key) of mikro2R to your 6300 with only on keyer input?
73 Kari
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Jon, EA2OT

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Hi Kari,

I was using another radio together with the 6300. The 6300 was connected to just one output.

73! Jon
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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Hi Jon, sorry for "slow reply" but I have started testing.

Sorry to say but N1MM with one keyboard only does not produce what we want (mono mode when other radio transmits and then stereo when no radio transmits) . With stereo mode or mono (both ears to one radio) N1MM keeps the same audio pattern regardless of which "QSO moment" to talk 2BSIQ language. If you want to hear split audio between switching TX1 to 2 or vice versa you have go for it the whole time (unless switching to mono mode).

This applies to alternate CQ as well.
"Focus other" no difference.

Then I tried two keyboards but the audio switching was not correct all times. Sometimes when doing CQ on radio 2 the audio on radio 1 was muted. So someting is not working as expected.

73 Kari SM0HRP
(Edited)
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Jon, EA2OT

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Thank ́s for the feedback Kari,

I ́m really surprised about the behaviour. When operating normal SO2R, I also like to switch from stereo when no TX to be able to RX both radios and then change to mono when one radio is TXing to take the biggest profit of S&P with second radio making use of both ears. Using Stereo mode all the time and having one ear "muted" when its assigned radio is transmting is not the way people do SO2R nor 2BSIQ.

However, it seems you nearly achieved to do it using 2 keyboards. Maybe this is related to "focus other" and "swap other" functions from N1MM. Maybe you could make some tests playing with these functions?

I hope someone from the Flex team will read this post and may consider what we are talking here. Maybe N1MM team has to be involved also? I would appreciate any feedback from Flex on this matter and I will be happy to contact the N1MM to request some modifications if needed. N1MM team has been very reactive when I found some bugs using 2 keyboards and I think they will be ready to modify what is needed.

The purchase of a 6600 will need to wait some time, while I can ́t use it for SO2R and 2BSIQ operation :-(

73! Jon, EA2OT
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Jon, EA2OT

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Hi again,

I just found this post which is related to what we are talking here:
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/advanced-so2r

It seems the problem was detected 1 year ago...

I hope Flex could give an update on this? maybe it has been addressed during the last smartsdr updates and we just need to know how to configure it?

Thank you

Jon, EA2OT
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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Jon, how can I reach you over email?
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Jon, EA2OT

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Hi Kari,

Please use ea2ot (at) yahoo.com

Thanks!
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Andy - KU7T

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I am currently a SO2R beginner but trying to practice in most contests now (and brining up more antennas...).  How N1MM+ works with the Flex 6600M seems to work perfectly for me right now. My goal is also, as yours, to do this without any additional hardware (no microHam, etc.). Not sure if I would want to switch the stereo on/off as you are describing above, but in either case this may already be supported. 

Mave you tried macros? Look at http://n1mm.hamdocs.com/tiki-index.php?page=Macros&highlight=macros and try out macros including these strings: ADVSO2R, STEREO and/or OTRSP.  

Let us know what you find. Very interested if this works or if Flex or N1MM+ needs to add more support..

73
Andy (member of N1MM+ dev team)
KU7T
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Jon, EA2OT

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Hi Andy,

I didn ́t thought about N1MM macros! Maybe {STEREOON} and {STEREOOFF} macros may do the trick.

As far as I know, ADVSO2R is a feature from the former N1MM but is not used anymore. The OTRSP macros will depend on how the Flex radio reacts to these macros, and I think will be similar to the reaction to "focus other" and "swap other".

So, maybe a try with {STEREOOFF} at the begining of all the predefined CW messages and {STEREOON} may work.

Thank ́s for your involvement in this matter. It ́s very much appreciated.

Best regards,

Jon, EA2OT
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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Hi Andy, could you tell me what "activate RX" means in the {OTRSP} macros? I cannot see a defintion.
73 Kari
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Andy - KU7T

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Hi Kari,

I found this in the revision log of N1MM+:

Version 1.0.5943 (October 11, 2016)
...
Added {OTRSPOTHER RX} macro. Sends the OTRSP RX command to the OTRSP device to activate RX corresponding to the currently inactive radio.
For example, if Radio 1 currently has keyboard focus and the {OTRSPOTHER RX} macro is invoked, the OTRSP RX2 command is sent to the OTRSP device, 
but keyboard focus remains on Radio 1. (Coded by N2IC)
....

Hope this helps,

73
Andy
KU7T
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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Hi Andy, thanks for the input. Glad to hear you are digging into SO2R. It really opens up new possibilities.

I cannot find the STEREO macro for SO2R. Only a STEREOON for LPT.

The 2BSIQ scheme really makes SO2R more effecient. To be able to switch to stereo mode when no TX is a "must".
(Edited)
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Jon, EA2OT

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I agree that Stereo mode when no TX is a "must" to do any serious SO2R, and mandatory for 2BSIQ.

I suggest to try with {STEREOOFF} macro at the begining of all the predefined CW messages and {STEREOON} at the end. The behaviour of these macros is like tilde key, I tested it by myself some time ago.
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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Hi Jon, tried this but it does not the trick. However got some real good advice from Nathan N4YDU which brings me close to the final solution.
Soon we will be there. So you go ahead and place your order for a new Flex
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Jon, EA2OT

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Great to know it! As far as I know, Nathan was using Flex6600M in his last contests so he has for sure some experience with it. If you are reading this thread, thank you also for your help Nathan!

73! Jon
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Hi guys

How you handle SSB pile up on both radio? When you need quickly answers to second radio

Before when I used 2 radio, I used two foot switch, and was easy to answer at any radio hands free.

Any idea how to connect two footswitch to maestro or to logger?

I know N1MM and DXLog has those options, but is not just plug and play, requires some work
(Edited)
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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Hi John, thanks. Yes I have tried DXLog but I cannot figure out how to get the stereo mode in "Time slot 4". And often when i stereo mode DXLog changes by itself to mono mode.
Are you sure N6MJ works in full 2BSIQ mode?
I will send you an email later in afternoon John
73s
P.S. I have now tested two keyboards in N1MM and you are right it is easier. My prejudges fooled me. I can easily come up to 200 QSO/h. This with morserunner only - no radio. D.S.
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Jon, EA2OT

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Hi Kari,

I just sent you an email but I think it could be interesting to others how to setup DXlog for training 2BSIQ. N6MJ is working in full 2BSIQ as far as I know.

I suggest to open the “Operating info” window in DXlog where you can see the TX/RX status of each Radio. I ́m using 2 keyboards and in the “Operating” tab in DXlog I select “Listen to both radio (headphone split)”. That ́s the way I use it to hear in Stereo while not transmitting.

73! Jon
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Bill - W9KKN

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Kari, any chance you could share the macros you ended up making for this? I've put 2 & 2 together and I think I have this mostly working, but want to see another example...
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Bill - W9KKN

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Kari, any chance you could share the macros you ended up making for this? I've put 2 & 2 together and I think I have this mostly working, but want to see another example...
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Kari Gustafsson SM0HRP, Elmer

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Hi Bill, sure.  I just want to test the macros somewhat as I beleive they are somewhat "overdone". Andy/KU7T and Steve/N2IC are also evaluating it. What is your email? I can be reached at email below. 
73 Kari SM0HRP  kari@sm0hrp.se