FT8 Decode failing caught on video

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  • Updated 5 months ago
  • (Edited)
As many of you know I've been dealing with an FT decoding issue for a long time. I've sent the radio in for repair but the problem is still there.

Tonight I had 3 WSJT-X sessions open for 20, 30 and 40 meters. After monitoring for about 2  hours I noticed that decoding was stopping on 30 so I started a video to capture what was going on.

In the video (easier to see with full screen) you will notice the last decoded FT8 signal on 30 meters was at . 040815, on 40 meters was 042545 and on 20 meters signal are still decoding for another minute or two.

Notice that each pan is showing continuing signals and the DB levels on each WSJT-X session is showing activity yet the decoding has stopped completely on 30 and 40 and eventually stops on 20 as well.  Each band stopped decoding a few minutes apart from the other bands.

Notice also the DT values all reasonable as I use Meinberg to ensure accurate timing

I also display DDUtil to show the voltage at 13.8 and the temp at 30.4c and  the control panel to show the current settings.

So the video shows that whatever is causing the decode to stop is causing it to stop one band at a time until they are all stopped. . This happens with JTDX as well so I know it's not a WSJT-X issue.

After about 15 minutes 20 meters started decoding again but 30 and 40 are still stopped and both bands have lots of activity

If anyone has any suggestions I would like to hear them

I'm adding this info to the current ticket

https://youtu.be/FJHsWWaR20c



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Pat N6PAT

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Posted 5 months ago

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Harold Rosee

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Hello Pat.

I hope you are having a good 4th.  I just watched your video and have a question but first want to say I have only been running WSJT-X for a few weeks on FT8 and making tons of good contact's with my 6500.

I noticed that your bar graph on the left of each slice is way lower than mine.  Mine runs at a minimum of 60db all the time and goes as high as 80db but never below 60db.  I saw you DAX level is way lower than mine so maybe you could turn it uo so you get in the 60DB plus range and see what happens.

Give it a try and see. Even if you have tried it before.  I would close all the slices but 20 meters for now.  They are all low but when I attack a problem I usually try to throw things in the mix 1 at a time.

Let me know if you see anything different.  Like I said I am new to FT8 but mine is working and that's the main difference I see.

Harold
W5ZZT
(Edited)
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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

I also zoomed in on my panadapter like your is and the waterfall looks just like yours.  I never looked at it zoomed it that far.  I am looking forward to see what the levels do.  Your 40 meter level is so low at times I am surprised you are decoding anything at all.

Let us know.

Harold
W5ZZT
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Pat N6PAT

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Harold,

I have the levels at a lower value to see if that helps but it doesn't . Some times I have it at 60 but the problem exists at any level.

Also, it was working fine for about 2 hours at those levels. Sometimes it will decode for hours then stop and other times it won't decode at all from the minute I start up the radio

If you place your mouse on the DB scale it will tell you it should be at 30 when just noise is present and if the value is green then it's a good level
(Edited)
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Pat N6PAT

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To clarify:  Some times I will operate with the WSJT-X db at 60 and it fails so I try at 40 and it still fails.

For this example I just happened to have it lower but it was fine for 2 hours then one by one each band failed within a few minutes. .
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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

First let me say I mean no disrespect in what I am about to say but you are so frustrated you are beyond the point of helping now.  I just quit beta testing and helping others on the RigPi forum for the same reason.  Once a person gets as frustrated as you they won't try what you ask.

To be honest I haven't read much of your post before tonight because I could feel where you were at. 

Like I said I mean no disrespect but would you please try what I am suggesting and post another YouTube video.  It may get you closer to working.  Right now no matter what you do you won't decode with audio that low.  Plan and simple.  What is happening is you are on the edge of decoding and when the band drops the level does also and when it drops to nothing as in you 40 meter display I watched you it just isn't going to work.

All I am asking, Ham to Ham, is to please put up one slice set to 20 meters with the audio up higher and do another YouTube video and see if we can help.  I know what you have been going through here but I wish you would humor me for a few minutes.  It will take less that 30 minutes to crank it up and let me see in a video what it will do.  If you want to take this offline on email I will be glad to do it that way.

You have to try something. Please try it again.  You have nothing to lose.  I am retired and have plenty of time to try and help.

Thanks for your consideration in setting this up.

Harold
W5ZZT

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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

I just got on 20 and ran my DAX gain up until the audio level turned red in WSJT-X.  It does that on mine at 70 DB.  Take your up until it turns red and back up until it tunes green and then a hair more.  That is what's wrong in your current video so let's get that right and go from there.

BTW,  what are you doing with a 6 call in New York?

Harold
W5ZZT
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Harold Rosee

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Sorry for all the emails but I keep watching your video and seeing things that are different than mine.  That's not saying they are wrong, just different.

You have the mode set set to DIGU.  Would you please set it to USB.  That is how I am set up and it could make a difference.  Let's see.

Also be sure you don't have anything under the DSP turned on.

I am editing this post so I don't put so many out.  When you use DIGU it tightens the filters down way too much for FT8.  I am hoping the change to USB and raising the audio up will do the trick.

Harold
W5ZZT
(Edited)
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Pat N6PAT

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Harold,

I just started the radio up again to show you that it does work at those same levels where before it failed. The levels are not too low. It was working for 2 hours then stopped. Now all three bands are working again at the same levels. It's not the DB level that's causing it

https://youtu.be/oWxXJ0_Q5WY


(Edited)
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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

I am going to go to bed.  I am 3 episodes behind on Gunsmoke.

Sorry for not watching you video more closely so I am going to try and summarize what I would try.

1. Change your mode to USB.  You are missing half of the audio frequencies in DIGU.
2. Raise you levels to 60-65 DB.  Just make sure the bar stays Green.
3. Just have 1 slice running on 14.074 and let it run for a while.
4. Make sure you don't have anything on under the DSP tab
5. Make sure you have the RX equalizer off.

Let me know what happens.  I think the DIGU is your main problem.  If no one is at the 100-2000HZ range you aren't going to decode the.  USB will widen things up.

Please reply here or email me and let me know if this helps.  I am good on QRZ.

Have a good night.

Harold
(Edited)
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Pat N6PAT

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Harold,

From a previous post on this forum:

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/whats-the-logic-for-using-digu-instead-of-usb-for-f...

"DIGU / DIGL, and USB / LSB modes on a Flexradio, differ only in the fact that DIGU and DIGL modes bypass any, and all, DSP processing effects. You don't want any EQ-ing, or noise filtering being done on the signals your trying to decode. USB / LSB modes don't bypass those. Think of it as quick, convenient way to ensure that your sending unadulterated signals to the Digital Application your using. The choice is yours though, you can use USB / LSB and disable all the effects manually."


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Pat N6PAT

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Tried it with increased DB levels to  60 just below red.

First just monitoring on 20 and 30. Both ran for a while then stopped at exactly the same time.

Then 20 meters got quiet for a while so not seeing any decode is reasonable but signals were still present on 30 meters with no decode.

Started up 40 meters and it decoded a few then stopped even though a number of signals were present on the band while 30 meters still would not decode

This shows that the issue is not being caused by low or high DB levels

https://youtu.be/gzJTs-2Kqhc


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Harold Rosee

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Pat

I saw more after you left. See my previous post. You are in DIGU. ThaT won’t work for ft8; you have to to in plan USB.

Look at the other things I suggested but if you have the audio up and go to USB plus make sure all the dip and eq is off I bet it will work.

Let me know. I’ll be up a little longer

Harold
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Harold Rosee

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DIGU tightens up the filter. Look and you will see. Just try it. I really don’t need to hear what you don’t think will work. Let’s just try this stuff and get you running. The ft8 has a wide spectrum of tons are you are cutting too much off in DIGU.

Please just try it.

Harold
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Harold Rosee

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I think you are just decoding the ones in the range of the narrower filter The side and filter is wider so you will decode the rest.
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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

I was hoping I would hear back from you by now but I am really going to sleep now. If this didn’t work please leave everything as we now have it and look at your receive band with on the right and make sure it’s set to at 2.7. That works fine for men.

Talk to you in the morning to see how it is going.

Harold
(Edited)
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Paul Bradbeer

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Harold, I'm afraid you are wrong about DIGU ..it is perfect for FT8. Roll it out to 3kHz and you'll have all the FT8 bandwidth you need. 73 Paul M0CVX
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Mark - WS7M

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I have to agree about DIGU.  I use that all the time and I open the filter manually.  My FT8 profile selects DIGU but also sets the filter (if you zoom in the pan from 0 hz to + 6000.  I know it doesn't need to be that wide but it allows it to catch people at the end of the typical pass band.
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Pat N6PAT

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I've been using DIGU for 2 years with no problems until around the beginning of this year
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Cal Spreitzer

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DIGU works fine.  Recommended RX audio level with no signal present is 30. Don't forget you have DIGU filter options here: 



I really think this is a DAX issue like the one we randomly see when transmitting.  I would try stopping DAX and restarting DAX to see if decoding comes back. 

Cal/N3CAL
(Edited)
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Pat N6PAT

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My filter settings are at the same level as yours.
(Edited)
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Gary NC3Z

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I watched your video, weird stuff. You have good audio levels (30-40 is where you want to be with no signals, no higher! And you want to be in DIGU, never in USB).

Can you show a video with the WSJT-X spectrum windows also?

Unless your 6700 is drifting in frequency the other thing that will cause no decodes when you have good signal is the time sync of your PC. I have seen this a few times helping guys get setup. When I set them up with a NTP client then bingo, great decodes.
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Pat N6PAT

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I sent the rig in to correct a frequency stabilization issue which I was told was fixed but I still have the decoding problem.

I use Meinberg time sync so it's not a timing issue. Also it does the same thing on my windows 8.1 computer as it does on windows 10
(Edited)
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Gary NC3Z

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Can you do a video of this issue again but show the WSJT-X spectrum displays enabled?
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Mark - WS7M

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On other point to consider:

For me personally I something just lose DAX.  I mean it seems to remain running but the data stream either quits completely or something goes wrong with it.  When this happens nothing works.  WSJT will not decode.  CW Skimmers will not work.

Just for grinds, the next time you have a stop in decoding, try quitting the DAX control panel software and restarting it.   See if decodes come back.

I am hopeful that DAX is being worked on some in future versions.
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Pat N6PAT

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Thanks for the suggestion but when this happens restarting DAX does not fix it. I've also tried restarting SSDR and the radio itself.
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Joe N3HEE

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Does WSJT-X have any debug logging that can be viewed ? I assume you’ve tried using another computer ?
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Pat N6PAT

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At least folks can now see what I'm talking about. Sometimes it starts with 1 band then progresses to each active band until they all stop. Other times they all stop at exactly the same moment.

I've replaced everything, even the Ethernet cable. The only thing I haven't replaced is the radio.
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Joe N3HEE

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Do you have another radio you can try? Any radio that can do FT8. If another radio works then that would rule out your computer setup. Also ask FRS if they actually decoded FT8 while they had your radio on the bench. This should not be too hard to figure out !
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Pat N6PAT

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No. I wish I did. It's not the computer because it does the exact same thing on my Windows 8.1 as it does on my Windows 10. In fact the only reason I bought the Windows 10 computer was to try to get this working.
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Bob G W1GLV

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Pat, observing your video I did notice a pretty robust signal coming from the 3 panadapters. It looks like your problem is not from the radio but rather from WSJT-X itself or DAX. If it  would be possible to see your WSJTx setup that would probably help in solving this problem. I have a 6500 and have made over 5000 FT8 contacts without a glitch.
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Pat N6PAT

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Bob,

When the problem starts happening it causes both WSJT-X and JTDX to both stop decoding. I've run tests when I first see the problem and fire up JTDX on another band. They both stop so it is not a WSJT-X issue.

Also, I've been using the same WSJT-X configuration for 2 years with WAS on 8 bands and 187 countries without any problems until now

I've also removed and reinstalled WSJT-X at least 5 times
(Edited)
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Bob G W1GLV

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How about DAX. That app has been problematic for a while now. I stop it and restart and it usually fixes my decoding problem.
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Pat N6PAT

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Another thing I tried. When this happens I go into task manager and shut every non essential process and application down including all the update notification services, etc. then restart the rig and SSDR but that doesn't fix it.
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Pat N6PAT

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Next time it happens I will try to include the WSJT-X waterfall in the video.
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Gary NC3Z

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It may or may not help, but it will at least provide some extra things to observe.
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David Warnberg

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This, to me looks like a PC issue and/or WSJT-X issue.... couple questions:
1) can you get it to stop decoding with just one instance of WSJT-X running rather then 3?
2) how much space (disk and or cache area) and memory are available after all this is running and when the issue occurs?
3) do you have a power or sleep setting on for any disk drives?
4) What hard drive is WSJT-X installed on?
5) do you see any errors in the windows logs?

My thought is this, typical behavior from a PC when a resource is lacking..  it looks to me like WSJT-X queues all incoming decodes, that "space" fills (3 times as fast with 3 instances running) thus causing a decode or decodes to stop.  

Have you ever cleared the WSJT-X log?  How much space is in the log directory.. typically in c:\users\"username"\appdata\local\WSJT-X directory
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Pat N6PAT

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Dave,

Brand new Windows 10 computer. Same thing happens on my Windows 8.1

Not a WSJT-X issue. Does the same thing with JTDX.

Plenty of disk space and lots of RAM. Again does it on two different computers so it is not a computer issue

What error log are you referring to?
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Dennis Terry W4SG

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David, I was just going to make the same observation when I noticed your comment.  WSJT and JTDX have common software roots from free software but have diverged over time.  I was thinking about buffer pools getting corrupt due to multiple copies running of the software.  Is there enough DRAM available?  Pat mentioned going from 8.1 to Win10 that should have pointed away from Windows itself, leaving the software.  A different radio would certainly help solve this.  Of course, the hardware guys blame the software and vice versa in my 60 years of playing with computers. ;-)
A look at task manager will show any resource issues at a 30,000 foot level.
(Edited)
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David Warnberg

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Event Viewer in windows... there should be system and application logs there.. you will probably have to configure the snapin to really  drill down to what you are looking for.. this smells of a memory leak to me.. could be wrong
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Pat N6PAT

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Does the same thing on my Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. Been using it on 8.1 for 2 years no problems until the beginning of this year. I bought the Windows 10 computer to try and fix this. Not a computer issue
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Dennis Terry W4SG

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Pat,  Didn't you have to make a couple of FT-8 upgrades in the last six months in order to be current with the new version (2.x I think) of WSJT-X?  I know I had to upgrade last December to be able to communicate with most others and then last month or so I did another upgrade of the software.
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Pat N6PAT

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It just happened again. I include the WSJT-X waterfall. Take a look at the mess on 30 meters!. I tried to adjust the waterfall setting but the signals are still surrounded by a halo of some sort.

Also if you zoom in you can see some evidence of a shifting of the signals.

https://youtu.be/OWjwLGWAK6I

(Edited)
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Cal Spreitzer

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My only suggestion on your waterfall settings is uncheck "flatten".   There is no need to have the software doing that. 

Cal/N3CAL
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Pat N6PAT

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These are all great suggestions but to reduce suggesting the same thing over again please read:

Not a computer problem. Bought brand new Windows 10 and it does the same thing as on my Windows 8.1

Not an antenna problem. Bought a brand new antenna and it does same thing

Not a WSJT-X problem. When decoding stops it stops for JTDX as well. Also been using the same configuration for 2 years with no problems until the beginning of this year. Also reinstalled WSJT-X at least 5 times.

Not a coax problem. Replaced the entire run

Not a tuner problem. Replaced my LDG 600 Pro II with a new one

Restarting DAX, SSDR and radio itself does not help

Shutting down all other apps and services doesn't help

Shutting down just about everything else in the house doesn't help

Again it's been working fine for 2 years and now this.


(Edited)
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David Warnberg

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Pat.. keep in mind here.. over the last 2 years WSJT-X has had a new release so something has changed.. second a 2 year old PC in my world is NOT new and to simply dismiss a computer issue because your perspective is that it's new is in my opinion a mistake.

Something has obviously changed, from my observations what I am seeing smells like a memory leak in a piece of software you are running causing the issue.  Been in the IT world for almost 30 years now troubleshooting PC and repairing PC issues and this issue you are describing shows all the classic signs of a PC issue...

Second... you point to a fuzzy waterfall.. ok fine, do you realize you are again looking at a display from a piece of software running?

So I will go back to my original questions... namely one.
1) can you get it to stop decoding with just one instance of WSJT-X running rather then 3?

fresh reboot, reboot the radio, start minimum to run WSJT-X and only one instance and make it stop decoding... then lets talk


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Pat N6PAT

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I bought my Windows 10 just a few months ago in an attempt to fix this problem. It is not a 2 year old computer

I also have been in the iT world for many years designing telecommunications software and other apps for 35 years

I will try a single instance and see if that works. I have to run out for a few minutes will do it when I return
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Cal Spreitzer

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This will be my last post Pat!   Your very stubborn and based on your lack of accepting suggestions your on your own from here out!   In the last two years think about what has changed, Windows 10 updates has changed numerous times.  So has the Flex software. You really need to be looking at your computer and DAX drivers/sound settings.  I'm no longer willing to help someone the likes of you.  All the best my friend. Good luck  and  73

Cal/N3CAL 
(Edited)
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Gary NC3Z

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Pat, what does it take to get WSJT-X to start decoding again after it stops?
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Alex - DH2ID, Elmer

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For digital modes  (except RTTY, which has it's own settings) use DIGU and a 5kHz slice bandwidth.
WSJT-X should run at maximum 30dB with no antenna attached.
And remember Windows essentially supports EDV, not multiple parallel processes.
Use TaskManager or - better - ProcessHacker https://processhacker.sourceforge.io/
to look at your CPU usage and what Windows does with interrupts etc.

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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

I haven't read all the other messages but you need to get off the hardware thing and work with wsjt-x.  Trust me that is your problem.

I am going to make it real easy.  Set your radio up like you are going to talk on 20 meters ssb.  Then leave SmartSDR alone.

Start up WSJT-x.  Adjust DAX to drive teh program as we talked last night and it should work.

Your are trying to make changes on the radio you don't need to be making.  If you can talk on the radio then the radio is ok.  Period.

Let me know what happens.

Harold
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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

This is why I wanted to finish this last night.  Now you have a bunch of people telling you what to do and you are going to get way off track.  You need to still to one person and go thru until the end.  You and me weren't done yet so I hope you haven't changed.  Again, if you know how to set the radio up to talk on 20 meters SSB the radio will be set up properly. Leave it alone.

Go to WSJT and make sure the audio is set up to 60DB.  Adjust DAX as needed.

You should now be working.  It's that easy. Or should be.  Please try that.

Harold

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Gayle Lawson

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My computer will not let me run more than one instance of WSJT.  How do you get multiple sessions 
to work?

Thanks

Gayle K0FLY

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Dennis Terry W4SG

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Gayle, I think you have hit on the problem  I bet he is using Slice Master to run multiple copies of WSJT-X and there was a recent update of Slice Master which might correspond to the start of this issue for Pat.  This is a new dimension for this issue.
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Harold Rosee

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That's why I told him last night to run 1 slice but he ran 3 slices.  I am not trying to get on Pat but he won't do this one step at a time. 

Harold
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Gayle Lawson

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Terry:

Thanks for the input.  I was sure that there had to be another piece of code to run multiple session of WSJT.

Gayle aka FLY
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Pat N6PAT

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I am not using Slice Master to run WSJT-X. I have 8 completely different installations of WSJT-X on my computer. Each one is designated to a separate slice. I've been using it this way for 2 years without any issues.

I'll do a single slice test in a moment but will have to wait until it fails. Sometimes that takes hours while other times just minutes
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Dennis Terry W4SG

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Thanks Pat for clarifying that.  I have to assume that you had to update all of the copies last December to be compatible with the rest of the world.  Did you also do the upgrade that was made available in the last few months?  Did the start of this problem coincide with any of the updates?  I wonder if WSJT-X has had an oversight introduced recently that is not adapting to multiple copies running.   A question for my own curiosity,  how do you go about installing unique copies of WSJT-X so that they can't collide with each other?
Thanks, Dennis W4SG
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Joe N3HEE

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What version of WSJTX are you running ? There was talk of this problem on the WSJT forum on Groups.Io. Check the forum for clues.
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David Warnberg

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Pat... you do realize that just because you have installed WSJT-X in 8 different locations on your PC they will ALL still use some common files right?

Joe according to his video is looks to be the latest version 2.0.1
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Gary NC3Z

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The WSJT-X documentation covers this well. Essentially you use command line switches and separate Config folders. I run multiple instances daily with no additional software.
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Pat N6PAT

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Yes, I know they use common files. The reason for 8 separate is for separate log files for each slice. Works very well in that regard.
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Pat N6PAT

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Currently running WSJT-X version 2.0.1 but started happening on 1.9 and 2.0

Also, same issue with JTDX so it's not a WSJT-X issue
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Pat N6PAT

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@Dennis,

For each new version I completely uninstall all instances and reinstall with the new version. Been doing it that way for 2 years
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Pat N6PAT

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@Harold, I am running a single instance right now but sometimes it takes hours before it fails. I'll keep checking it and keep you posted
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Dan Quigley N7HQ, 4O7HQ, Service/Support Manager

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QST: I've found Gary Hinson's (ZL2iFB) FT8 Operating Guide an excellent, pragmatic and authoritative resource for this mode.   Here is the link:

https://www.g4ifb.com/FT8_Hinson_tips_for_HF_DXers.pdf

73,
Dan (N7HQ)

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David Warnberg

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Excellent read Dan.. thanks for sharing.
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Pat N6PAT

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Another thing I should point out:

When I first noticed the problem it was happening only once in a while. Then it started happening more often. Now it happens many times a day.

This gradual increase in failure rate would seem to indicate a failing physical component that's degrading over time as opposed to a software glitch as the software hasn't been changed (except reinstalled) and no new applications have been added to the computer to account for the increase.

Everything points to a failure within the radio which is what I've been saying all along
(Edited)
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David Warnberg

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so memory in computers doesn't go bad?  Faulty sectors on hard drives never happens right?  I thought you said you had been in IT and you NEVER seen memory or hard drives fail slowly over time?

Isn't this the same Radio you JUST got back from flex?

Hows your station grounding system?
(Edited)
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Pat N6PAT

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Yes, it is the same radio I just got back from Flex and the same problem with decoding is still there.

Everything is well grounded

Again, this problem started on my Windows 8.1 so I bought a brand new Windows 10 computer and the problem was happening as soon as I tried it on the brand new computer just like the old.
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Dennis Terry W4SG

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All the more reason to run one slice active and one instance of the software.  That would eliminate or at least reduce the probability of it being a software issue.  That leaves the timing software and the radio. 
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Pat N6PAT

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I am doing that right now. Have to wait sometimes hours before it fails. It's completely unpredictable and that's the most frustrating part of this
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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

Did you put the radio back to SSB just like you would talk on it?  Just checking.
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Pat N6PAT

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@Harold, I did last night no change. Please check the other posts. DIGU is the correct mode to use and the mode that everyone uses
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Jeff Eli

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You may have already covered this and I overlooked it. Just curious. Have you back graded the SDR software version and checked for same problem?
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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

It is not.  You are beyond help.  I am outta here.

Good luck.

Harold
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Pat N6PAT

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@Harold, Please read the posts from the other ops
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Pat N6PAT

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@Jeff,  the problem started on 2.3.9 and upgraded to 2.4.9 and it was still there. Tried upgrading/downgrading a number of times but that did not fix it
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Pat N6PAT

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Thunderstorms starting here so I have to shut down. I'll try it later. Thanks for all the suggestions.
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Harold Rosee

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Pat,

Like I said above.  If you keep trying the same thing over and over again you will never get it working.  Go read up on FT8.  It specifically says if the digital setting doesn't work to try USB on all bands.

All I can say is mine works and yours doesn't. Try to be a little more open minded and try different things.  You have already proved what you are doing doesn't work.

Harold
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Jeff Eli

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I thought that would be the case as you have been very thorough during this whole process. Just thought I would ask.
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Gayle Lawson

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I just returned from lunch, one of the guys who is a Flex beta tester as well as an FT-8 operator.  He claims there is a thread on the FT-8 reflector discussing an issue where the FT-8 software randomly stops decoding.    Anyone k now about this?  I don't think he was talking about a FT-8 beta release which implements FT-4.

I apologize if I got my wires crossed on this. 

Gayle K0FLY
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Dennis Terry W4SG

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Pat, I got curious about running multiple copies of WSJT-X and did a little research.  I now understand how they do it.  You only need to install one copy of it and use the --rig-name=RIG convention to use individual rigs/configurations.  That parameter forces WSJT-X to use different settings files in the %APPDATA% folder for each rig-name.  I do not know what happens if you install multiple copies of the software and do not use the --rig-name convention.  I would think that they would be fighting over the settings files in %APPDATA%.  I have to assume that you are using that convention to keep things separate and unique.  Sorry about this extraneous info on your post but I wanted to point out a possible danger unless their convention is used.
I am sure we will all be curious about this when solved.

Dennis W4SG
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Pat N6PAT

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Dennis,

I do use the command line to designate separate instances for separate slices. For example:

C:\WSJT\wsjtx\bin\wsjtx.exe --rig-name=Slice3

(Edited)
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Dennis Terry W4SG

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PS: After learning about this, thanks to your post, I am now using it for my Flex and KX3 to keep things separate.  Thanks, Dennis
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Pat N6PAT

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I've been using it this way for 2 years. Sometimes I have all 8 slices/pans active at the same time. Usually I keep it at 4 or 5.  This is not causing the problem
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Dennis Terry W4SG

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Ah the beauty of having a 6700.  I must make do with my 6300.  I guess the only potential software issue left is the timing.  I think you said you use meinberg for timing.  Is there any chance it is having trouble getting to the internet and the site where it goes to keep you clock in sync?  I know that the internet service in my SC house is terrible.  It is "blotchy" and sometime I cannot even get to the Domain Name Servers in a reasonable time.  Just a thought.
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Pat N6PAT

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Meinberg:



Also, brand new computer and same problem on old computer so if it were a timing issue both computers would have the same timing issue - not too likely
(Edited)
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Rick WN2C

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Pat, have you tried an outboard interface like a rigblaster plug n play. If you were to set it up like you would on a radio without DAX and it works ok and does not stop recording then you have a problem int the radio. You have to eliminate a variable like DAX.
Just a thought. Good luck in figuring this out.
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Pat N6PAT

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I don't think it's DAX as I've been using it for 2 years. Once in a while DAX acts up but nothing like this. Why would DAX work ok for 2 years and then suddenly cause this problem? It fails in both 2.3.9 and 2.4.9
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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It could be something that recently loaded on your PC that is stopping DAX every few hours. New app installed or a Windows update? Just a thought since it seems you have not been able to pinpoint the problem.

Dave wo2x
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Pat N6PAT

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@David, it's not anything I recently loaded because when I switch the rig back to the Windows 8.1 computer I still have the problem and I haven't loaded anything new on that computer in a long time.

I also have windows updates on hold so it's not that either
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Pat N6PAT

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It just failed on 20 meters with only 1 WSJT-X session and only one pan and slice open

Notice on the video that it stops at 212300 then after 2 minutes starts up again for one more time period then stops completely. Also note near the end of the video I show with the cross hair pointer on the WSJT-X waterfall signals that appear just a little bit zigzag. You have to look real close.

This shows that it's not caused by having more than 1 active WSJT-X session open at the same time

https://youtu.be/bs_bpEmNniA

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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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Pat,  any reason you have Bins/Pixel 8 instead of 4? No need to have WSJT-X looking at that much RX BW. The FT8 BW is only 3 kHz.

Dave wo2x
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Gary NC3Z

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Dave, off topic for this issue but I regularly see/decode FT8 about 3KHz. Right now on 20M there are several in the 3.0-3.5Khz range.
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Pat N6PAT

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@David, the configuration is the same I've been using for 2 years without problems until this year
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Pat N6PAT

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fyi....after the single session failed I left it alone and didn't do anything else on the computer and after 17 minutes it came back to life. It's completely unpredictable
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N8SDR

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Pat,

I have read through this post and several other post you have made regarding the issues your having. So I don't want to beat a dead horse and suggest something that has been brought up time after time, I think your correct as it being a hardware issue. esp with the  info you provided regarding the resent  ship and back from Flex. However a couple things I have not seen listed as a possibility are : and I know you've tried this on two different computers and operating systems, so here you go  : If you could look at the below, again  I think your probably correct as a hardware issue but if it were me I would check the following below as well.

What antivirus is running on the systems is it the same software?
What is the possibilities that you maybe subject to a BOT-NECK attack?

I can personally tell you , as being in the I?T field for some 27 years that McAfee and Norton, esp with the added web surf apps are total crap when it comes to eating system resources and fail on stopping Bot Neck attacks and other newer malware. Is it possible that your A/V is starting a scan when the issues starts with no decodes?

can you scan your system with another A?V scanner to check for something that  your present A?V maybe missing on both systems.

any file transferred between the two systems could carry  over an infection, email, a website visited, a picture etc. anything! (cant tell you how many customers I've clean infections from told them to toss USB drives and weeks or moths later there back because they plugged a USB infected drive into there system again)


First please run RKILL-

RKill is a program that was developed at BleepingComputer.com that attempts to terminate known malware processes so that your normal security software can then run and clean your computer of infections. When RKill runs it will kill malware processes and then removes incorrect executable associations and fixes policies that stop us from using certain tools. When finished it will display a log file that shows the processes that were terminated while the program was running.

As RKill only terminates a program's running process, and does not delete any files, after running it you should not reboot your computer as any malware processes that are configured to start automatically will just be started again. Instead, after running RKill you should immediately scan your computer using some sort of anti-malware or anti-virus program so that the infections can be properly removed.


Next if you could scan the system with something like Emsisofts emergency kit:

https://www.emsisoft.com/en/home/emergencykit/

Then follow up with Junkware removal tool: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/junkware-removal-tool/

And Okay before you guys tell me Junk-ware removal tool is old and outdated, Yes it is, but is also works better at finding at least older things than does the updated replacement called Adware cleaner which is malware bytes and recently that program is very lacking!


Ive included the links to the suggested applications I use here daily, please read the directions for them, Esp.  RKILL it is important you do not reboot after it finishes,

Please note any running apps open will be terminated when you run RKILL.

Please report back, or if you'd like feel free to email me directly im good on QRZ or look for links on my personal page: http://n8sdr.com/

Rick -



(Edited)
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Pat N6PAT

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@Rick,

Thanks for the suggestions but I'm not loading my computers up with all that software.

I use Avast antivirus on both computers. Been using it for many years. I can run a full scan of the entire system while doing FT8 without any issues.
(Edited)
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N8SDR

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Pat, you don't need to load up your PC with what I have recommended, they will all run simply from a USB drive. they DO NOT NEED to be INSTALLED, in fact there is NO Installation with any of them. Also I recall a PC I worked on not long ago where the user had AVAST- his PC was infected with JS/ Mind Spark malware, it would do all kinds of weird stuff,he was a Ham and ran a 6600 and his sound and dax drivers would randomly  stop and start. Mind-spark is a gateway for other malware infections, its a backdoor and many A/V application don't find it. it consumes system resources I've also seen it turn a PC into a bit coin miner at various times randomly throughout the day..

Again these are suggestions, they will run from a USB drive and do not require installation.
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Pat N6PAT

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As I said, it failed on a BRAND NEW computer RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. My computers are not connected to each other and I do not exchange files between them.

It is not the computers.
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N8SDR

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Brand NEW computers esp DELL, come preloaded with malware.

Good luck
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N8SDR

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Another thought  do you have  or have access barrow etc to a frequency counter, it might be nice to actually watch if receiving is changing then TX is as well..

Also next time you start radio do a frequency calibration- note the offset, then when it acts up immediately run another frequency calibration, and note the offset, lets see how much change there is between them.
(Edited)
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Pat N6PAT

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Here it is while the decode is NOT working

(Edited)
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Pat N6PAT

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After restarting everything and getting it to work on another band here is the offset with decode working:

(Edited)
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N8SDR

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Those both seem like a big offset, in the 3 thousands,  mine is typical 1060 or less.

since there isn't a lot of difference between the working and non working, grab a few more shots if you can, if its is changing enough for the decodes to stop I'm pretty sure it going to take more difference then that to do so

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Gary NC3Z

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Wow, pretty big numbers! Mine runs about 500, with a GPSDO it runs even lower (a lot).
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Pat N6PAT

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Thanks for the info. I'll add these to the open ticket for FRS to review

What do you think could be causing that?
(Edited)
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Ray - K6LJ

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Hi,
My Flex runs like this. Everything appears to decode fine.


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N8SDR

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Gary that's what I thought as well and why I made the 3 thousand comment, I don't have a  GPSDO and I see -1060 or less.
 Although I don't see enough of a difference between his two postings to cause a Non decode situation. Heck 10-20 minutes  difference in time can cause the difference posted just from heating or cooling.
(Edited)
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Gary NC3Z

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Well something to look at if the issue happens over a period of time. Both my 6600M and 6500 are/were around 500. And with an external ref from a GPSDO it was 0.

Wish Pat had a second radio to at least eliminate half of the equation.
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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Hi Pat,
I note above you mentioned "plenty of RAM" but not too much about the rest of the machine. I see you started having the problem on your old "windows 8" machine. What changed there? Did you add a new monitor? Perhaps increase the resolution to allow more pan adapters to be visible? Both WSJT-x and SSDR make pretty extensive use of video processing capabilities. That ---could--- be a bottleneck for you.

Have you tried reducing the waterfall rate (lower FPS in SSDR, higher N Avg in WSJT-X)? Turning off AP and deep decoding in WSJT-X? Making the active video windows smaller? Closing any unnecessary DAX channels (especially IQ)?

It would be interesting to know what your video card and monitor configuration is. What is the processor in your PC, and how much is "plenty" or RAM. 

Have you looked at the system monitoring tools in Windows (Task Manager)? Could you post a screen shot of the results on launch of your applications, and then after they stop?


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Pat N6PAT

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@George,

Intel i3 @3.60Ghz
RAM 8G
Windows 10 Home Edition

On Windows 8.1 computer
Intel i5 @3.1GHz
RAM 12G

- no new monitor, no change in system configuration at all, same video settings, same antivirus, same keyboard, mouse, speakers, etc. It's worked for 2 years with that config Nothing has changed on that computer


fyi...it just failed again
(Edited)
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Ray - K6LJ

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Maybe you should ask FRS to send you a loaner so you can verify if it is your radio or something else? It would be worth it.
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Pat N6PAT

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I've had many discussions with them about this.

Also, it cost me $70 including insurance just to ship this via FedEx to FRS the first time and I had to pay to have it shipped back to me
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Ray - K6LJ

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Just saying time is money. While i was an electronic tech in the navy. In the old days they always said cut in half. In this case it would be worth the mony and aggrevation and you might have some leverage if the issue goes away with the different radio. You have tried most everything. Good luck!!
Ray
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Pat N6PAT

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As I said, I've had many discussions with them about this radio. I don't want to talk about it. It's not good for my blood pressure
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Joe N3HEE

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Contact Joe Taylor and see if there is debug logging that can be enabled to figure out why this fails. See if he has any ideas on why this fails.

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