Flex6300 Band edge limit

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I am going to raise this again because I am not getting it and it's frustrating me. I will use the 17 meter band as an example here.  The 17 meter band covers 18.068-18.168mHZ (in Canada) but the Flex-6300 will not let me transmit pass 18.165.100mHZ, I was trying to work a station at 18.166 and could not, whereas on my Elecraft KX3 I am able to. What am I missing here, as I can recall this is the only radio I've  had that will not allow TX on the full band spectrum.

Maybe someone can educate me.

Thanks
Peter
 
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Peter

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Posted 4 years ago

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Mike Hoing

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In upper side band you would transmit 3.0 signal upto 18.168.100. Last I looked they just saved you a notice for transmtting outside of the amateur band

Mike
N9DFD
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Peter

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So all of the other radio manufacturers have it wrong?

Peter
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Mike Hoing

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Technically speaking. They are building radios that transmit outside the amateur band. Right or wrong that is a fact

Mike
N9DFD
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Mike Hoing

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Official Response
The Rule

If the band goes to 14350 KHz, then contesters can just set their dials to that frequency and operate- right? Wrong! The crux of the matter is found in FCC rule 97.307, which reads in part: "Emissions resulting from modulation must be confined to the band or segment available to the control operator."

What must be taken into consideration is the fact that the frequency displayed on the radio's digital display is the carrier frequency. A suppressed-carrier single-sideband signal is considered to be 3 KHz wide. So, for an USB signal to be confined to the 20 Meter Amateur band, the frequency displayed on the transceivers digital dial should not be higher than 14347. That may even be too close unless the transmitted signal is attenuated by at least 40 dB at 3 KHz. Of course, the same goes for a LSB signal transmitted near the lower end of a band or segment. Please see illustrations A and B below for help visualizing the situation.

USB Signal
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I--------I--------I
347 14350 353

A. USB signal transmitted with dial frequency of 14350 KHz.

LSB Signal
^^^^^^^^^^
I---------I--------I
147 7150 153

B. LSB signal transmitted with dial frequency of 7150 KHz.

So, the fellow telling all the contesters that they were out of band was right! But, is it a big problem? Obviously more education is needed on this particular rule. In the 2001 ARRL DX phone contest one Dx station was heard running US stations on 14349 KHz. in excess of 5 hours straight with a steady stream of US callers. Most were Extra class licensees.

Although certainly the majority of these callers didn_t realize they were violating an FCC rule, the action could result in an FCC warning, ARRL OO notice, or perhaps an argument from a frustrated fellow contester as mentioned at the outset of this article. Since all contesters who submit a log sign a statement that they have followed their country_s Amateur regulations they should be willing to take this rule into consideration and modifying their operation as needed.

In addition, contesting ethics are involved. What if a station finds a clear running frequency by operating too close to the band edge, while his competitor perhaps fails to find a run frequency out of respect for this regulation? Or what if a multiplier is counted by working a station calling too close, while other stations don_t get the multiplier because they want to obey the rules? Perhaps such situations are part of what causes our mystery stations to vent their frustrations.

I hope you find this article of help in your contesting efforts. Further information about this particular FCC rule can be found on page 4-34 of the ARRL_s "FCC Rule Book." See you in the contests.

Mike
N9DFD

****This information was copied not of my creation
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Peter

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Hmmm, this is getting confusing, I just recently notice this because of the Flex restrictions but for years and many radios this has never been an issue.One would think that if this was a big issue that the FCC would have enforced this on radio manufactures long ago. I could be wrong but would bet that most (if not all) of the new radios allow TX to the band edge, what makes SDR radios any different.

Peter
ve3pcd
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Walt - KZ1F

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However, and this is where the programming comes in, if you were to be using CW or very narrow SSB then, yes, you would be able to transmit up closer to the upper edge. Similarly if you transmitted LSB, which is not illegal, then you could get pretty close to the upper edge. However, if you had used 40m as your example that would have pretty much worked.

People don't see that on the lower edge because that is CW and Extra only at that. What the software does not do is adjust limits based on your class of license. However, the same principles apply.
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Peter

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Mike...I just saw your note which makes sense, seem like the manufactures are confusing us with how they design their radios
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David Warnberg

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Actually if you think about it you could transmit at 18.166, you'd just have to change from USB to LSB.  So there in lies the issue, most radio manufactures do not take into account USB or LSB, they just set the band edge via hardware and leave it, it's up to the operator to know if they are transmitting outside the band or not.  Prime example, to modify a TS-590 to work MARS frequencies one simply removes one resistor on the board inside the radio and it's then "unlocked" to transmit anywhere... again it's up to the operator to know the band edge and the limits set by the FCC.
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Lee, Elmer

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The FCC does not impose freq restrictions on the manufacture, they impose freq restrictions on the licensee.  It is absolutely your responsibility to stay in the band.  You will be the one getting the violation.  Why do you think they test this kind of thing on the license exam?  It is clear Flex has done you a great favor in helping keep you legal.  Government bureaucrats don't care a whit about your "everybody else does it" argument.  If they find you in violation they can and will cite you.  The other advantage of a flex is, if you got the cajones, you can take a picture of your transmitted signal to prove your so called innocence in case you get cited.

73  W9OY
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W7NGA

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and yet ... we most surely would be disturbed if car manufacturers somehow limited our speed to always fall at or below the speed-limit.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Have you noticed that GPS navigation systems in cars all know what the speed limit on any given road is. True autopilot cars, Tesla, Prius, and maybe others, will dutifully follow those posted speeds.

If, and when, I release XPSSDR I'll have it query the license class of the op at start-up and set the band edges appropriately. While some may consider that Nanny-state, I'd consider it keeping the op safer.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Actually you can set the Tesla to autopilot at a specific speed above the speed limit

In SoCal the limit is 65MPH but one normally cruises with traffic at 75-80MPH or you become a danger to everyone else on the road by driving too slow.
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Bill-W9OL

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That's a common approach on the Dan Ryan Xpressway leaving chicagoland.

It's the leaving part that causes the high rate of speed.

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Lee, Elmer

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So your arguing it's somehow OK for you to speed?

73  W9OY
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Walt - KZ1F

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Only after drinking Howard's proverbial case of beer.
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W7NGA

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> So your arguing it's somehow OK for you to speed?

Not at all. I am aware however, that if I drive the speed-limit I am the slowest car on the road.

It should be incumbent upon the amateur operator to uphold the license acknowledgments and agreements they have made, and to monitor their operating frequency, operating spectrum, and operating procedures. 

The manufacturer does not know my intent. It is not illegal to use USB/LSB close to the band-edge if I, as the operator, understand the bandwidth of my mode of operation (that may not be the human voice). Flag a warning. Illuminate something in RED, but do not enforce an inalterable restriction.

Perhaps, there is a new and general awareness of the very limited technical demands we now make upon holders of an amateur license, and a sense that they must be protected from themselves?

My thoughts? Start considering raising the bar ... and making greater demands of the licensee.

W7NGA  dan
San Juan Island, Wa.
(Edited)
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DrTeeth

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So why does Flex get involved with restricting where we can TX? It's my responsibility and not theirs.
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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I'm having a hard time understanding why this is so controversial.  My understanding is that we should build a radio that follows the letter of the law in the country where the radio is used.  From my perspective, the other manufacturers are not doing the right thing by allowing your radio to transmit out of band.  

I can remember being a novice at 12 years of age and being told that I should give the band edge a little room because the equipment couldn't be guaranteed to stay in the band (drift, signal width, etc).  I was actually a little frightened of the band-edge as a teenager.  

Our design goal was to be sure you could not do something illegal.  We honestly thought this is what our customers (not just the respective governments) would want. It is a lot harder in software to take into account all of the different modes' edge conditions than it is to just use the dial setting.

As a practical matter, if we did what other manufacturers have done and let you transmit out of band (at the edges), we would probably never be faulted for this.  As an amateur, you're likely to get a OO report for doing what you have suggested (I've seen these posted on many hams' walls for just this violation), but they are all effectively "warnings" and not "tickets."  Wouldn't you rather have the radio do the right thing and not worry?  Is there an OO on frequency that will come to my defense?
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DrTeeth

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Steve, try and do the same thing with cars. There is no difference in my eyes. Why are cars not so limited? The tech is available at zero marginal cost. Where I tx is my responsibility and not FRSs, that is why this issue is controversial. It is not your job to police the ham bands worldwide. Simples, hi Hi.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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Actually Guy, I think it's everybody's job to help police the Amateur bands. At least in the states there is a huge push from some quarters to reduce the funding for government agencies to the point where they cannot do their job of regulating whatever it is they are charged with regulating. In this case that would be the FCC. I think FRS should go one step further and customize an one's band plan based on their license class.

I'd guess in the next 10 years cars will obey posted speed limits all by themselves.
(Edited)
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DrTeeth

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It is just that from a personal political point of view, this is outrageous. Words fail me as to how objectionable I find this sort of policing to be, especially when it is voluntary.
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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I wrote a paragraph in my previous post about this, but thought better about posting it and so I deleted it. I think there is a very big difference so let me see if I can explain my point of view. I don't really want to start a lengthy thread on the speed limit so I'm going to post on topic this only once.

In my opinion, the speed limit is a compromise judgment based on the highest speed someone should drive given the average conditions on a given road. While most would agree that a lower limit is warranted in rain or snow, we all agree (as a society) to compromise on one fixed number. A traffic engineer looks at the road, the traffic, the preponderant conditions and provides a limit that is appropriate given those conditions with a reasonable margin of safety. We are all encouraged to drive within the limits of the road, the conditions and our car when we are licensed. No doubt when it rains, the limit should be lowered. At 2AM when no one is on the road, a higher speed in an excellent car is probably safe. But our signs are not (generally) dynamic (today) because of the cost of the engineering and actual signs to accommodate a dynamic speed would be prohibitive.

On the road, many here in the US drive in excess of the posted limit when, in their judgment, the conditions warrant it.  It's not uncommon to see people driving 5, 10 maybe 15 MPH above the posted limit on the highway under favorable conditions. Sometimes it is safe, sometimes not. Generally, law enforcement looks the other way provided that the behavior seems safe given the conditions (or perhaps is has more to do with best use of time -- concentrating on the worst offenders that are sure to show up soon). With the numbers of people driving over the limit, this could only be classified as civil disobedience. Law enforcement would probably like to write someone a ticket for driving 40 in a 40MPH zone when there is snow and ice on the road. They might actually stop someone and write a ticket for recklessness, but ideally the speed limit might be lowered to 10-20 MPH in these conditions.

What frequencies are next to the ham bands? Look on 60m for example -- who will you interfere with in an adjacent channel? You will interfere with many, if not all, users of those adjacent frequencies because your signal can travel around the world. It's like driving fast through a school zone where you can't see the children! You have no idea who you might interfere with or even if you can hear those users of the bands.  And for what purpose?  Hypothetically, if we allowed a 5kHz area on either side of the band so you can transmit out of band, would you transmit out of band?  Are you OK interfering with other users of the bands?  What would that say about amateurs as a group using the bands?  How would you feel if/when a government official stands up and asks for a reduction in our bands because we don't follow the rules of this valuable resource entrusted to us?

I apologize that our policy is frustrating.  I really don't like hearing that something we're doing is frustrating customers and we work to remove frustrations when we hear about them.  I don't think that changing this policy will benefit you, the amateur community or our friends in adjacent bands and I've yet to hear an argument for relaxing our policy of helping amateurs follow the law.
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DrTeeth

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There are so many holes in this 'speeding' post I would not know where to start. This would be an amazing discussion to have in a pub with free-flowing ale <g>.
(Edited)
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Steve,
Your approach works for me. But an even nicer solution might be to issue a warning like the GPS in my car. I set it to warn me at 5mph over the limit and it issues a warning any time I exceed the limit but its up to me to decide whether I want to slow or not.

A big RED warning for out of band might be a good compromise.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
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k3Tim

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Actually, Steve's post is correct and I completely agree with him.  Other reasons not to limit vehicle speed is 1) when passing one should complete the pass quickly.  This may require exceeding the speed limit for  a brief time in order to avoid the passee blind spot for any length of time. Additionally there is a tendency for cars to speed up slightly when being passed. Hence a short time exceeding the limit happens.  2) in case where a person is being chased by a bad guy, exceeding the speed limit while driving to the nearest Police Station may be a life save.

OT - if one has the need for speed, take up flying lessons, where there is no speed limit as long as you keep it below Mach - 1.

BTOT - The current method of SSDR limiting out of band transmissions is exactly correct, there is no argument to be made against it. In testing, the Xmt is disabled if transmission will cause a sideband to be out of band.  You can be within 2Kc of band edge and it your BW limit is set to 2,000 cycles the Xmt is enabled. If BW is set to 2001 cycles Xmit disabled.  This is correct behaviour and should one "pull the trigger" when Xmt is disabled, this feature prevented an out of band condition.  I have to admit to making this mistake once or twice and was very happy the SSDR caught my error whilst at the same time chastising myself for being 'clumsy'.

Bottom line : This feature works correctly as is and there is no reason to change.
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Forgot to say, the band limits should be by license class also..... A lot to program but could be a nice feature.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
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DrTeeth

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@ K3TIM
Speeding is an absolute offence and one is not 'allowed' to exceed the limit to pass a car. Once should not have overtaken it in the first place.
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Ken - NM9P

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Thanks for the discussion, guys.  However that question needs to be asked...How much "out of band" capability would we be willing to tolerate?  3 KHz?  5KHz?
10 KHZ? 100 KHz? 1 MHz?  At some point, we could start arguing that our manufacturers shouldn't incorporate ANY frequency restrictions.  But then, they would never pass type acceptance either with the FCC or in many other countries.

Sure..we all know that WE wouldn't abuse the privilege...(much).
But when some 11 meter guys, pirate radio stations, drug cartels, or terrorists start snagging Flex radios on the used market and start raising all kinds of mischief, what then?  Could that inspire additional government restrictions?

I know that most of us, myself included, don't like to be told what we can and cannot do.  But I know that FRS has to set an out of band limit SOMEWHERE.  It might as well be the ACTUAL frequency limit.

Just a thought.  

Perhaps Al is on to something...
If you try to transmit outside of band, maybe the whole display should turn bright RED instead of blue!  I know some guys that would key that one up just for FUN!

Ken - NM9P
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DrTeeth

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@ Al
Let's not forget power limits too. Flex should nerf their rigs so that power and freq limits are obeyed as per section 10 (4) here.
(Edited)
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Guy,
I like that too. I intend to stay '"between the lines" and with the variations by band, class, country, etc it would be nice to have the reminder if something is not set up correctly. Probably a lot to set up but a nice feature for some day.

Ken,
I like your Red background idea, could not miss that. Lots of more important features for sure but maybe some one will post it as an idea.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
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W7NGA

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> take up flying lessons, where there is no speed limit as long as you keep it below Mach - 1

Oh come now Tim ... you know that isn't true. Have they dropped the Class B and C speed restrictions? Do you ever fly below 10,000 MSL?

<grin>
(Edited)
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Sounds like to do everything (band edge, license class, power allowed, by country, etc) a new "profile" would be one approach. 

A User Profile where you could specific your license class, and other pertinent info to establish the limits and warning levels.   Then if/when others are operating your radio, they could just select the appropriate profile.  

Again, this would not be on the top of my list of priorities but if FRS runs out of things to do.....

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
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Dan -- KC4GO

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@ Steve
I purchased my 6500 understand that it would ONLY transmit with in the ham bands.  I have owned many radios that would transmit 1.8 to 30 Mhz or more. I had one of these on my sail boat and would have been willing to transmit out of band it necessary for life and death. As it turned out after 12 years of sailing I never needed to use the ability. In the meantime I kept my armature transmissions well within the band and never found a reason to crowd  the edge.  Steve I'm OK with how it my Flex works it you let it transmit out of band I'm still OK it's on me to follow the rules. 
Regard
Dan -- KC4GO
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Lee, Elmer

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Steve

Just keep making the radios legal.  As  far as cars go I guess the scofflaws haven't heard about yellow light cameras, where if you blow a yellow light you get a $150 citation  every time I drive under those overhead data links on the toll road that collect my transponder data I wonder when a citation is going to be coming.  There is nothing stopping the FCC from automating band edge analysis and cranking out tickets

73  W9OY
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W7NGA

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The ESSB crowd will still blow thru the band-edge with their shackled Flex. The better solution is to use the opposite sideband such that your modulation products fall the other way. You would still have to pad somewhat, but I believe it is better to have the amateur operator make that determination. Just as it was in the days when Steve and I were Novices. A RED warning-flag would be a better solution methinks.

And, I truly believe Walt's idea/suggestion about further restrictions imposed by license type is absurd.

Flex should build radios, and amateurs should operate them according to the restrictions of their license.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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Dan, it is NOT my restriction, it is the FCC's restriction.
Not withstanding it is so darn easy to get an extra class license now, you don't honestly think the extra/ tech demarcation is stopping anyone from going below their designated band edge...do you?
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W7NGA

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No ... but if we can't assume some predisposition towards honesty in our hobby, I think we are doomed.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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Well, that broaches on another, different, conversation (that I doubt anyone will want to engage in). If cops don't give out speeding tickets frequently the perception becomes speed limits are suggestions, not limits. To follow onto Steve's analogy, the 85 year old driving 15mph over the speed limit is a danger to other drivers and pedestrians alike, where that is less likely to be true for a 30 yr old. Similarly, where the FCC has such a spotty record of enforcement of part 97, Part 97 becomes, to some, merely a series of suggestions.

In short, I agree with FRS's approach on band edges and maintain going a little further would be OK, but I concede many would view FRS enforcement of Part 97, beyond their purview.
(Edited)
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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If you really need to snuggle up close to a band edge, you can do so by reducing the transmitted bandwidth (high cut in the case of USB). Guy, I get you think it's not Flex's place to prevent your potentially out-of-band transmission, and respect your viewpoint. I like the peace of mind - FRS policy on this one is a selling point to me.

PS - although I don't know for a fact, I suspect FRS' decision at least in part emerged from the patchwork of worldwide regulations concerning out-of-band emissions, spurious signals, etc., that if unchecked, would make certifying an amateur transceiver quite difficult in some jurisdictions. A line/policy should exist at the manufacturer level to ensure their product can be sold legally in as large a market as possible. 
(Edited)
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DrTeeth

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Hi George,

Hope you are well.

I agree that it can be regarded as useful, I am just speaking from a general political point of view as I do not see how one can be selective with this policy. They could easily make it an option if somebody wishes, so it does not have to be an all or nothing situation. Maybe they could even get visual indicators for band edges rolled out faster to be even more 'helpful'?
(Edited)
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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Good day, Doctor!

Always good to hear from you. I bought the radio which best matched my needs. If I really needed/wanted that extra kHz or so, and was okay with the associated risk, probably would have considered a different product. 

And YES, I miss the band markers and such from the PowerSDR days, too.

73,
 
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Ken - NM9P

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I make my own band markers with extremely narrow TNF filters at strategic places.
(You must remember to save them as part of a global profile, however.)  

Only once has it become a problem... when a DX CW station was transmitting RIGHT on my CW/SSB band-edge marker on 17 meters!  I could see him but could not hear him until I clicked TNF OFF!

Ken - NM9P
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W7NGA

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I've never operated extremely close to the band-edge and from this discussion thought there was a fixed restriction as to how close to the band you may transmit. Typically, ~3 kHz for SSB, but I am pleased to see that the High-Cut parameter influences the restriction. That is, the ESSB crowd running at 8 kHz bandwidth would be pushed back further, and you can still switch sidebands and operate against the band-edge even though we know there is residual energy (admittedly quite small) present out-of-band.

So, as much as I don't like the restrictions I can work with them as implemented. Texans being able to walk into my restaurant with a gun on their hip as I dine with my family? Not so much ...
(Edited)
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Ken - NM9P

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Yes, the regulation is that your transmitted bandwidth must remain INSIDE the total authorized band.  So if you are on USB then you cannot simply rely upon your frequency indicator because it doesn't account for transmitted bandwidth of the Upper Sideband.

On the other hand, on 40/80/160 meters, if you are using Lower Sideband, then you must watch the lower frequency limit of your authorized phone privileges.  For US Extras, that lower limit is 7125 MHz.  That means that if I am 3K wide I cannot tune and operate below 7128 MHz and be legal.  I have had debates with a few Extras that should know better.  In fact there are a few people I have observed on 7125 running Upper sideband, not seeming to understand that it is just the same as Operating LSB at 7128.

Now I am sure that most of us have had an occasional "oops" moment.  
One of the last DX contests, I almost did.  I had hit the CTL>RT button combo to move to the next spotted contact and started to transmit, but luckily the Flex kept me from doing so.  Then I looked at the frequency readout and discovered that it was out of band.  He was on 14.348 USB and out of band.  So I brought out the "secret weapon."  I changed my TX High Cut to 1900, which kept me in band and snagged the guy.  On my way out of the contact, I reminded him that he was out of band (his signal was certainly wider than 2 KHz) .  Then I just hit my Contest Profile tab and moved on to the next station.  Brick wall filtering saves the day!

Was this legal?  I assume that MY signals were.  The other station...Probably not!

Will that contact be disqualified?  I don't know.  I hope not, because it was a rare multiplier.

Some contest auto scoring routines will automatically disqualify contacts that were out of bands, but I don't know how they account for bandwidth.  This is probably why many people commonly use the standard 3 KHz figure.  

Ken - NM9P
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Win 10
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k3Tim

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Exactly!  The F6K and SSDR will let you work to the very edge of the band. One could conceivably set the BW to 1.25Kc and have a dial frequency very close to the band edge but meeting the regs.  The other stations in the QSO would have to be mindful of their setup / frequency though.

So - what is the argument for allowing out of band transmission?
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W7NGA

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My argument is not to allow it, as it is clearly illegal, but increasing licensing demands to make for better (more aware) hams. That is, to get your license you must be able to describe the signals you wish to transmit. You must have a rudimentary understanding of your modulation type, your transmitted spectrum, output power, etc.

I could be wrong, but I am beginning to feel that there is a consensus that hams are not smart enough to monitor themselves and keep themselves legal. The better solution is smarter hams, not more imposed restrictions and policying.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Dan, I don't believe the issue is smart vs not smart, after all they did pass the test, right? I believe it's care vs not caring. An unenforced regulation is a suggestion to many.. Just by way of humorous anecdote., when Bill Gates was younger he'd constantly be doing upwards of 105 down the 405. He finally got dragged before a judge. In the end there was the following dialog:

Gates: "well then,your Honor, just how fast can I go"?
Judge: " Mr Gates, 65, the same speed limit everyone else has to obey".

There was a time I was in Redmond and Bellevue a lot.
(Edited)
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Stan - VA7NF

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This argument also applies to CW.  The rate-of-change front and rear end keying slope also creates sidebands which are visible with the flex super fine display.  I recall, also as a teenager, working DX on 7.000.050 (after very careful Xtal calibrator calibration against WWV) without realizing my CW sidebands were out-of-band.

I am known to be argumentative, so:

FRS, do you restrict CW within the band edge accounting for the speed setting (which changes the rise time).  I know, how many angels dancing on the pin head are acceptable.

P.S. I agree with the FRS limits but perhaps a TX setup option with 3 selects: 1) Enforce  2) Relax with warning 3) Ignore within radio final safety.  That would cover amateur service with/without MARS type services and light commercial. 

XVTR is not restricted

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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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While I personally abhor most forms of irrationally imposed regulations (I normally drive 15+ MPH over highway posted limits- but then so does everyone in SoCal) - the USA Interstate system was designed for 75MPH cruising speeds not the irrational politically 55 or 65MPH posted limits...In Germany there are no speed limits.. so you drive as fast as you feel you are safe which I personally prefer....

I do agree with Steve that Flex limiting my out of band transmissions is not a bad thing.

Why?

When working S&P in contests there are always Mults right at and beyond the band edges....  In the heat of a contest... one rarely checks one's own frequency...so with our K3 for IC-7800 or example i can easily make the mistake of responding where I should not be responding..
Of course, those Q's don't count...which wastes time..... and reduces our rate....(BTW.. absolutely NO FUN winning anything by cheating) ... Using my 6700 in those same situations, it suddenly does not transmit...so I am forced to look at the frequency to adjust it to make a legal Q.

HOWEVER..... the band edge restriction does not work for the Mode Segments... So If I were working a SSB contest and a Mult was at 14.147 USB... i can still inadvertently transmit on his frequency in SSB.. and waste a Q.

@Steve
If you are going to enforce band edges - you really need to add Mode 
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David Warnberg

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"(I normally drive 15+ MPH over highway posted limits- but then so does everyone in SoCal)"  

So does that mean if everyone also also transmitted outside the band limit you would as well???

Maybe a regulator on all cars sold in California to limit it's speed to the max posted speed limit is on order...

HAHAHAHAHA... kidding
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Ken ve7kwa

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  I too,  always considered it a "feature".   Please... Get back to work on version  2,0   Steve... ;-)

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