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Flex or a box with knobs?

13

Answers

  • Duane_AC5AA
    Duane_AC5AA Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I've heard the "victim card" used in a lot of places, but never on a 30 day free trial before! Unless you have a good friend willing to loan you one so you can try it out in your own shack with your antennas, etc., this is a really good way to do that. If you can't remember you're trying it out, well then that's not the seller's problem.
  • W7NGA
    W7NGA Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    I think once you have experienced the wide-spectrum panadapter and filtering possibilities, you will find it very difficult to send it back. The fact that so many users are now using Windows 10 successfully should convince you to persevere, have fun with the new operating system, and work the world with your new Flex. 
  • Steve K9ZW
    Steve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017

    @Monk

    I like my Flex-6700/6300s - - AND I like my Collins S-Line gear.

    For any setup YMMV - it is a personal thing.

    As a couple folk have mentioned FRS is stand-up and has a very generous return policy, as they know it is a paradigm shift for many folk to switch to an SDR.


    Too bad I'm over 1100 miles NNE of your QTH - as I always enjoy doing a "show-n-tell" of my Flex-6700 when folk stop in.

    73

    Steve K9ZW


    image
  • Rick Hadley - W0FG
    Rick Hadley - W0FG Member ✭✭
    edited January 2018
    As a 69-yr old retiree, I can understand your quandry, Monk.  I can only 2nd the suggestion you attend a large hamfest or convention where you can get a feel for multiple rigs. 2 years ago I lost my airplane to a windstorm and decided to get back into ham radio after a near 10 year layoff.  My then current rig was a Yaesu FT-757, bought new in 1987.  I was on the verge of buying a new FT3000dx before I attended the Midwest Division convention and had a chance to see both the Yaesu, Elecraft and Flex rigs in operation and listen to the dog-and-pony shows from each vendor.  I ordered a new 6500 as soon as we got home and I've never regretted it.  This will probably be my last major rig purchase and I wanted something that was state-of-the-art.  That's Flex, all over. I worked in IT-related jobs most of my professional life and wanted something that integrated well.  My current shack has two computers and 4 monitors.  SSDR, HRD Log, and either my digital program or alternatively CW Skimmer, Flex Stack, Flex Meter and HRD Rotor control are all displayed simultaneously, while the laptop handles things like this.  You can see the layout on my QRZ page.  With just a vertical and a Hex-beam at 25', I've worked more DX than you can imagine in 24 months.  Aside from the new Icom 7100 I just bought for my Jeep, I'll never go back to a knob radio again.
  • Walt - KZ1F
    Walt - KZ1F Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Victim card? Too weird.
  • Burt Fisher
    Burt Fisher Member ✭✭
    edited August 2016
    I didn't know what he meant
  • W9OY
    W9OY Member ✭✭
    edited December 2015
    What Duane meant is Walt's perspective on Flex is they are out to victimize potential customers.  My understanding and experience is completely different because I am not cranky old and cynical.  Seems to me giving a man (woman) a chance to gain experience with an unfamiliar product before making a purchase decision is quite rational and not nefarious.  

    I recently saw an add on QTH.com for a one week old Anan 10E selling at a $165 dollar loss.  The stated reason: "just not what I was looking for"  Bet he wished he had a 30 day trial.
     
    73  W9OY
  • Gerald-K5SDR
    Gerald-K5SDR FlexRadio Employee ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    We have offered a 30 day return policy for probably a dozen years now.  It is a great way to reduce the risk to the buyer if the radio does not meet their expectations.  It costs us several hundred dollars if someone returns a radio but it is certainly worth it to us to make sure that our customers are happy.  It does happen occasionally but we rarely get one back.

    We are not perfect but we truly care.  If we were in it simply for the money, we would be in a business other than ham radio (In the mid 1990's I ran a business with sales greater than 2X the entire worldwide amateur HF transceiver market and we were not considered a large company).  

    We actually love what we do and want each of you to enjoy your radio.  That said, we are not a charity so we need to make money to keep providing the products that you can continue to enjoy.  

    Finally, the knobs vs. no knobs and PC vs. no PC debate is irrelevant with the advent of Maestro from Flex and with Mac support from DogPark.

    http://www.flexradio.com/amateur-products/flex-6000-signature-series/maestro/
  • Walt - KZ1F
    Walt - KZ1F Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Actually no Lee, once again you are deep into conspiracy theory, casting those you don't like to have the worst of all possible traits and motives.

    I accuse(d) no one of victimizing anyone. Lee, it's marketing...take a course.
  • Burt Fisher
    Burt Fisher Member ✭✭
    edited August 2016

    I don't know how Flex makes money on hams. I am cheaper than most and I bought the 6300. I am guessing it's a loss-leader.


  • Steve W6SDM
    Steve W6SDM Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2015
    I'm not cheap.  I'm just poor.  :)
  • Clay N9IO
    Clay N9IO Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 2019

    Monk,

    I will simply say that the pan adapter is one of the biggest advantages you will enjoy in either DXing or contesting.  The rock solid filter skirts are absolutely amazing.
    I run a Flex 6300 with a Six-Pak antenna switch and an Acom 1000 amp.
    The Flex Control knob is essential to me.  I really don't need a Maestro and I would be just as happy without it but I really want to see where this is going and want any advantage I can muster so I ordered one at Dayton this year anyway.  (I suspect that It's going to get really interesting, soon!)

    I generally run one slice with XIT on split (XIT/RIT are not limited to 9.99 kc as in legacy types of the past).
    The Six-Pak two antenna switch I have connected to both antenna ports 1 and 2.
    I transmit on port 1 but port 2 allows me to select any of my antennas for receive (whichever is quietest, VERY versatile).
    I use the transverter port for my small receive antennas (EWE, pennant).

    RTTY is a breeze with DAX, super clean.

    Between LOTW and the Flex 6300 my DXCC count is rising rapidly and I couldn't be happier.
    I am having so much more fun in the hobby than I have since I began in 1973 because of the 6000 series radios.

    Gerald said in an earlier post "If we were in it simply for the money, we would be in a business other than ham radio"  I am very pleased to see a man (and staff I might add) that is as passionate about the hobby as I consider myself.  I am totally amazed at the programming talent they have on staff.
    These folks are rewriting the books make no doubt, I am happy to be in this place and time in radio.

    I will NEVER go back, NOPE!

    So whatever you decide, good luck best DX.  Hope to meet you OTA sometime.

    73' Clay N9IO 

  • EA4GLI
    EA4GLI Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Flex 6000 series + SPE Expert + Logperiodic/Hexbeam/OptiBeam (OB9-5, OB11-5 or OB16-5) on a telescopic tower so you can do your own maintenance.

    Add a 38+ inch monitor and a decent PC and you have yourself a wonderful radio shack.

    About US $10,000-15,000
  • Burt Fisher
    Burt Fisher Member ✭✭
    edited August 2016
    I am cheap and that's why I am not poor. For example I want the Maestro and was willing to wait until it was available but they would take my deposit to freeze the price until 2.0 came out. I will never pay more than the "introductory price." I am stubborn.
  • Walt - KZ1F
    Walt - KZ1F Member ✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Look at it this way Burt, for a mere $200, you have the use of $1,000 for, at least, the next 9 months. It's less expensive than a credit card and you are the lender as well as lendee.
  • W9OY
    W9OY Member ✭✭
    edited December 2015
    Actually the "fix" did improve the key clicks but destroyed the QSK in the radio.  The issue was never satisfactorily resolved.  

    73  
  • Gary L. Robinson
    Gary L. Robinson Member ✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Monk, To get the ALL the benefits of a SDR radio you HAVE TO have a computer. Some people may disagree with that BUT one of the benefits of having a SDR rig is that you CAN write your own software to suit yourself. That is just ONE of many benefits of SDR - not necessarily the main one - depending on what is important to you. Since a computer is needed for the full set of benefits of SDR, you will have to cope with computer problems from time to time. Henceforth, your computer skills and knowledge will directly affect how you feel about your SDR experience. Of course, when Flex delivers their Maestro product, you could get one of those and use it INSTEAD of a standard computer and get MOST of the benefits of SDR and NOT have to worry about Windows updates. As long as Flex updates the system that Maestro uses I think you would have less chance of experiencing series problems. So, it depends on your computer skills and knowledge - AND what you want. I wanted to get entirely away from using knobs, etc. And I "live" in my computers and while I have a had a few problems, none have been serious or taken long to fix by myself. But many hams don't have extensive knowledge of computers, Windows, and software. And it looks like they can get most of the SDR benefits with the Flex Maestro product - which looks like it may come out in January. My understanding is that it can be used remotely OR locally with a Flex 6000 series rig. It may be the best of both worlds if the thought of fighting Windows worries you about SDR. ---Gary WB8ROL
  • Monk - K5HP
    Monk - K5HP Member
    edited December 2016
    Thanks for the comment Gary, I know my way around a computer pretty well due to the years I spent as a high end security integrator installing and maintaining access control systems and several hundred camera CCTV systems. The "box with knobs" was slang verbiage and made it seem to some that was my preference. I actually use HDSDR and the dongle now and much prefer CAT to the myriad menus, extended menus etc. The Flex is what I will get, just had to throw it out there one more time since I strongly believe in getting as much info as I can before pulling the trigger. Thanks again for the comment. One thing I've gleaned from this post is this. I will go with a dedicated PC for the radio and 3rd party ham apps and not be connected to internet and that should help stability problems.
  • KY6LA_Howard
    KY6LA_Howard Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2015
    I think you want to be connected to the Internet BUT make sure Windows updates are turned OFF
  • Monk - K5HP
    Monk - K5HP Member
    edited December 2016
    Yeah, I grabbed the utility you posted the other day. Why would I want to be connected to the internet?
  • Monk - K5HP
    Monk - K5HP Member
    edited December 2016
    Well, now that I think for a moment, I guess callsign lookup , DX cluster and other things just wouldn't work :-))
  • Burt Fisher
    Burt Fisher Member ✭✭
    edited August 2016
    I owe no one any money by not doing bad deals. Paying an additional $200, Flex gets over 25% interest plus I don't have the equipment.
  • Duane  N9DG
    Duane N9DG Member ✭✭
    edited December 2015
    While HDSDR is wonderfully useful for running with just about any piece of SDR hardware that is imaginable. It is not the most user friendly in terms of day to day use and controls manipulation. SmartSDR is much better from a user experience perspective, as is PowerSDR. Ditto for the effort to set it up.

    And if you are so inclined, you can feed DAX IQ output(s) from a 6K into HDSDR and it will do its thing just as if it was being fed from some other piece of SDR hardware. For grins I was able to get a 6500 have 8 simultaneous RX's that way :)..

    To me one of the greatest things, and really not mentioned much in this discussion about the 6K series is the amount of multi-band, and multi-mode, "parallelism" that you can achieve with just one piece of RF I/O hardware.

    The last few days I have been playing around with feeding the 6500 from my DEMI 2M transverter. With that I was able to setup a 4 MHz wide panadapter to watch the entire 2M band, then another panadapter setup for about 200 kHz width to more closely watch the weak signal part of the band +/- 100 kHz of the 2M calling frequency of 144.2. So I could see and quickly tune in FM signals while simultaneously be copying SSB signals closer to 144.2.

    But that wasn't operational "parallelism" enough for me. Because I could, I added a combiner in the RX IF line from the transverter and then patched my HF multi band HF dipole into the RX input as well. So the 6500 was being fed both 2M transverter IF signal, and HF band signals. I then setup WSJT-X to decode WSPR traffic on 630M. And I even fired up another panadapter on 40M copying yet another SSB signal.

    So basically I was monitoring multiple signals/modes on 2M, 40M, and 630M all at the same time. None of the boxes with knobs/buttons models at any price can even come close to doing that many different modes on that many different bands, and do all of that at the exact same time. Yes I added some hardware beyond the 6500 itself, but it was trivial to do.

    My motivation to play with combining signal sources feeding the 6K was to get a sample feel for what I think the SO2R box will be able to do based on what I seen about it so far. And as part of that what the trade-offs of combining RX input sources might be.
  • Dan -- KC4GO
    Dan -- KC4GO Member
    edited November 2016
    But, if it was Linux only there would be a lot less Flex users so they would have to support both. 
  • W7NGA
    W7NGA Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Don, thanks for taking the time to craft an insightful and helpful posting.
  • Stan VA7NF
    Stan VA7NF Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016

    Monk,

    There have been many posts praising the Flex radios, of which I generally agree.  The other part of your introduction was separate ham shack and antenna farm.

    The Flex 6700 is a more expensive but it offers several industry limited or unique services that may fit your environment.  Primarily, it is the two phase coherent receivers (SCA and slices) that offer interesting options such as having two transmitting antennae available (same or different band) AND two receive only antennae (such as an E-W and N-S reversible beverages or pixel loop(s) ).

    The key words here are faith and future.  Currently the 6700 offers very basic diversity reception in which each antenna is presented to each ear.  Like listening to an orchestra the mind "places" each sound in 3D space.  I have separated two CW signals on exactly the same frequency by their placement difference; guess voice could be similar.  Like the change from mono to stereo and higher audio.

    This is where the faith and future come in - The grand-father radio (5000 twin receivers) has amazing noise reduction and signal extraction diversity but we currently have only "between-the-ears" on the 6000 series.

    Single purchase, acreage, antenna farm, new house, separate ham shack:
    Definitely give the Flex "radio server" rack mounted near your antennae and in-the-shack or Maestro+headphones in your family room serious consideration, also, perhaps you could listen to a 6700 with multiple sources or just flip your stereo amp to mono and remember the difference.

    Regards
    Stan - Age: 70, looking for high hill crested island antenna property to really utilize my 6700 - live there and/or remote from a city HOA property.  

  • Steve W6SDM
    Steve W6SDM Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    You know, Flex could always come out with an accessory pack with some stick-on knobs.  They wouldn't necessarily need to do anything but, like TSA, they would make a lot of people feel better.  :)
  • Ken Davis
    Ken Davis Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Everything above is true. The question you must ask yourself is are you ready to move into the 21st century when it comes to ham radios. I have a 6300 and it will do everything I want it to do.  I can tell you that my setup is rock solid both on my network and with Windows 10 which I upgraded from W7. It takes me a whole 10 seconds to go from nothing to 20m with audio (I never turn off any of my equipment - No thermal cycles).

    I do not have a separate or "NEW" PC to run my 6300. My PC is a HP p6380t Intel 2 quad cpu at 2.5GHz and 6GB ram. I also edit video and audio with the same PC and all the other usual stuff - No issues.

    My network connection is also rock solid. I have never seen the Latency reading greater than 1ms. Normall it is always <1ms.

    The only problem I had was getting DAX to work with Ham Radio Deluxes' free version of DM780 for PSK31. I sent in a ticket to FRS Tech Support and Dudley had me up and running the next day - operator ignorance not radio issue.

    Good DXing in 2016 and 73
    Ken
    W0KRD

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