Fed up waiting

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Bought a yaesu,works rite out of the box,flex packed away until it can compete with the mainstream radios,give us a shout when you do.
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Tony Hateley

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Posted 3 years ago

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Jay -- N0FB, Elmer

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I also bought a new yaesu FT-991. I took it out of the box and it was not delivering the power advertised and showing high SWR on a known good dummy load. There are many items in the brochure which in reality the radio either doesnt work at all yet, or don't work as described. Yaesu says the features will be fixed/available in a new firmware release. The release dates have been pushed back for an additional 9 months. My new radio had to be shipped back to Yaesu, at my cost. I didn't get it back for almost 2 months.


So, from my vantage point, the 'mainstream' radio manufacturers are measuring pretty poorly against Flex Radio.


You know something, I've never been up on one of Yaesu's social communities and trashed them. There might be a lesson in that for you Tony!


Cheerio!
(Edited)
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Ed baker

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Tony I looked up what you have been replying on and i really do not see any time you trashed anything . I see you asking when !!!

And Jay , Tony is just frustrated with the wait . Having very few options and no immediate relief .

The response should come from Flex . In the form of new software releace
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Bill -VA3WTB

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Waiting for what features?, My radio has been a gem with little if any problems. Not ready for prime time? In what way?
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Ed baker

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Bill and the others that liked your comment that isn't what Tony was asking . And if you have no idea then your comments or agitation is not appreciated .


Tony since you bought in around 2014 , Flex has stated that they are working on it . With no release dated just when it is ready its ready .


For some this is not a sufficient answer for others it is .


This is why the response should be from flex .
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I am still interested in what Tony Is fed up with, what features Is he wanting that are not there or is Tony having problems with getting the radio operational. Like all SDR radios there are things to learn and all of them, all SDR products are developing.

Ed my questions and comments are not directed to you.....
(Edited)
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Ed baker

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It sure looks different .

He did not infer or say what you posted .

So this isnt a answer to you.

Tony , Sorry that your not using the Flex I am sure Flex will provide what you find necessary . The time frame has been a while .

Flex has removed the dates or expectation so they can put all their efforts into getting it right. Another good business practice .

And we all are in the same spot . Some just handle it differently . Somewhere in the postings you will find Flexes response I don't believe it has changed .

Flex 6000 series has been functional since it was introduced It just improves like wine with age .
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Tony, I don't remember all of the issues that you have posted.  But if I remember correctly, one of difficulties is the need for a good Noise Blanker? As I see it, this is the main weak spot in the 6000 series to-date.  The NB currently in 1.4.16 is better than previous ones, even though it wasn't specifically addressed in the past two releases.  It did benefit from secondary effects of other software improvements.

I have found it to be sometimes effective, sometimes not, depending upon the nature of the impulse noise/hash, current band conditions, number of strong stations nearby in frequency, etc.

It also takes careful adjustment of AGC-T and NB Levels in order to maximize effectiveness.  It also often requires the NB button to be toggled off and on in order to get it to function again after it gets "lost."  But when it works, it can be somewhat effective.  I had a station in Greece the other day on 17 meters that was totally uncopyable (I didn't even know he was there)  without the NB, and fully Q5 when I properly adjusted the NB level.  But then when I turned the antenna to listen to a different station on 20 Meters, I was also aimed at a different source of noise that had a different pattern and the NB was not as effective.  

I am eagerly awaiting the release of v.1.5 which should bring a nice leap forward in NB performance.

If the current NB does not allow you to enjoy the pleasure of enjoying an otherwise superior rig, I understand your frustration.  And I hope that the 6000 won't be boxed up for too long.  There are so many exceptional features that I am sure you will miss, and will enjoy once the NB "science project" is finished and released.

Ken - NM9P
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Ed baker

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Im sure tony will thank you for the insite .
Heavens forbid that I would mention that .
Your reply was perfect .
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Bill / VA3QB

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Tony

Sorry to hear that you have packed up your Flex.  

Remember that Flex being a "Software Defined Radio" is a work in progress. Meaning that it will always have changes made to the operating software and firmware.

Also keep in mind that the radio relies 100% on computer software for user operation. So if your not comfortable on a computer you may become easily frustrated.  

I would recommend that you find a local "Elmer" that could help you when you need it.

Another option would be to set up Skype and one of us could walk you through the issues you are having. 

This radio works as well as or better than any box and knobs radio out there today !  


Bill
VA3QB
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Tony's struggled quite a bit with his computer driven radio experiences.

I've offered to stop in during my occassional travels to help Tony. (Offer not taken up.)

Some of the woes he's had are:

His computer woes continued elsewhere  as he has even had computer issues and got his QRZ picture upside down (that configuration buggaboo again?) https://www.qrz.com/db/M6DYR

Most seem like the sort of thing a friendly hand could help Tony with - perhaps we can take away from Tony's noisey (hopefully temporary) exit, this idea -  -  that we could work out some way to help out good folk like Tony who are having a bad time with the learning curve before they melt down?

This stuff is all too much fun to not reach out and share by helping (just like someone sometime likely helped us).

Thoughts?

73

Steve
K9ZW

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Bill / VA3QB

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Steve 

I'm not sure but I think Tony is in the UK and is quite elderly. So I give him an "A" for effort for an "Old Guy" but ask him not to give up.   

Bill
VA3QB
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Bill -VA3WTB

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And It seems to me Tony could be a useful member of this community to keep giving input about his experiences. I think most here are giving input which Flex uses to make the radio better.
Looks like my questions are answered as others mentioned what Tony is frustrated with.
(Edited)
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Tony's about 66 +/- That's just a smidge younger than my official government retirement age.

Tony's experiences are VERY useful and I'm suggesting we figure a way to help when folks hit the wall. No judgement on whether their woes are FRS, Windows or their own fault.

Just a simple system to give a helping hand when a guy like Tony needs it.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Walt - KZ1F

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It doesn't really matter what age Tony is. Nor does it matter, to the masses, what issues he's had. As I, believe accurately, reflected on a few days ago, we each implicitly gave a free pass to FRS. Yes, it is a work in progress. I'd say less because it is a SDR, rather it came out of the gate at less than a 1.0 release. (In software that's important). In my mind, each of those 'free passes' come with an unstated expiration date. Sounds to me like Tony's expired. This is ok as, at some point, so will Bill's and Ken's....well, perhaps not Bill's.

Tony, et al, this is an incredibly polarized group. You're going to have people blame you, rather than the product they've developed an irrational exuberance over. The Yahoo IHeartFlex Group is also polarized. I suspect so is the Yahoo IHeartK3. I am not a member of that so can't say for sure. The difference is, this IHeartFlex board is hosted by the vendor. In my mind, that makes it different as it is a corporately sanctioned fan club. Just as there are people that may have, as viewed by the group, unrealistic expectations, so too there are people in the group that, viewed by individuals, unrealistic beliefs.

There was, some time ago, an individual that put in print words the the effect, "If you don't absolutely love your Flex, you don't deserve to have one". Just in reading this thread, I read wisps of that in some of the comments, some are more than wisps.. Personally, I think in two years time, if all goes well, there will be little resemblance between the then current version of  the radio to what is currently available. SSDR is merely a GUI and FlexLib is merely the conduit to the radio, so I do not count them in the ultimate success or failure of the FlexRadio SDR. 

Regardless, we all have our own individual thresholds for dealing with this 'work-in-progress'. No one should feel bad if their 'free pass' reaches it's expiration date.
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Bill / VA3QB

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My wife told me that at the "Cost" of this radio that it was to be my last one  hihi. 
and I'm 60 yrs old and retired. It better last a long time  LOL !!!!


Bill
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Walt - KZ1F

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My wife didn't say that, but then she didn't have to. I bought the 6500 knowing I was on the cusp of retirement so if I wanted an exceptionally good radio, it was 'speak now (with your wallet) or forever hold your peace". To be sure though, I've had my issues with it. The most pervasive is this fan club 'protesting' at the front door of the clinic.  The expectation Flex has is this fan club IS level 1 support. If I had known that when I bought this, I never would have.
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Bill / VA3QB

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Can not beat the support of Flex !!!! 


Bill 
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Terry T

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I think Flex support has been great.

Terry

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Tony Hateley

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thanks for all your comments,yes im getting on in years and I thank god every morning that I wake up,but one morning I wont wake and I will still be waiting for radio that works rite out of the box,im not talking bells and whistles,i just want what you would expect from a radio,as for beening computer savvy I was building pc as a hobby 30years ago but like everything things change like my hearing,my isight and my general health.tony
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Tony - What is your thoughts about a simple mutual aid group of volunteers who would work with you (or whomever) when someone hits a road block? 

Certainly will not fix any expectations vs reality issues (like if a person really needs to know when FRS is going to release the next version of SmartSDR even though FRS has said they will not put projected dates on releases) but certainly would help eliminate all the small scale woes that seem to come up.

Thoughts?

73

Steve K9ZW


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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Tony Brilliant Idea

But it would be difficult to have only one long DVD.

Perhaps a series of Video's (YouTube) - each depicting the latest version of how to implement a single feature would be better way to handle the questions.


Most of us are very curious as to which features were the ones that you found to be lacking or inadequate right out of the box...
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Tony Hateley

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while on my soap box lol,would it not be a great idea for flex or someone to produce a full length video showing full workings of a flex 6000 series radio,not links here there and everywhere,come on flex with all your investment in this radio surely you could produce a dvd so as us older owners with hearing and sight problems can watch it over and over again on large screen tv with the sound turned up to max or is that asking to much.tony
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Walt - KZ1F

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Steve, perhaps I can help answer your question. There is nothing wrong with a mutual aid group. It just should not be a corporately sponsored and hosted group. In other words, perhaps hosted on your blog, perhaps on Al's Yahoo Group. I know of only a few over-the-top fanboys that absolutely wanted to know when whatever was going to be released as if their battery might run out first. I, for one, have been adamant of nobody pushing FRS to deliver. It is counter to getting a quality product.  Nor should it block access between an owner of a flex product and the vendor.

The only other time I've even heard of a zealot community blocking access to a vendor is in the aforementioned case of the protesters protesting at the clinic's door. That it is being by the vendor's design is just sad. If one wants to know what you think, we all know your blog's URL. If I, for one, have a question I want FRS to answer, neither I nor anyone else, should have to wade through other, perhaps well intentioned, opinions.

So while I think, in principal, what you espouse is fine, but just not here. Your mileage obviously varies. Tony is not the first person to leave here in disgust with a "fine, you guys win, I am gone". And, there will be others. The bright side of that Steve is, this will become over time a far more homogeneous group.

Tony, the problem with what you ask is FRS can't discuss what they may have in 6 months so, by definition, said DVD would always be dated information. The implicit issue is people purchasing something on the hope it will turn into something else. Just anecdotally, it's like the ubiquitous  stories of a marriage premised on what one partner would hope the other will become (once married). That almost always ends with disappointment. Certainly it does require a huge dose of patience. Some have more of that than others.
(Edited)
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Burt Fisher

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I wish Flex had all the features now. I wish there was a real Santa. I knew what Flex was when I bought it.
A scorpion asks a frog to carry him across a river. The frog hesitates, afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, they would both drown. Considering this, the frog agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When the frog asks the scorpion why, the scorpion replies that it was in its nature to do so.
I knew what Flex was when I bought it, I was not stung.
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SteveM

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Burt,

Maybe you're just un-sting-able. You're wearing that fancy, impregnable jump-suit.

(Edited)
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Tim Nolen, KE4UK

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Perhaps a bit of understanding and a little respect for our elders would be called for here. I have played with computers since 1978, built my own machines and I still get lost with the, and I am only 67 yrs old . Help instead of criticism would be great.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Speaking as one of our elders... I built my first computer in 1958... the Flex is the most fun I have had with a radio in decades because its always changing for the better..  Forces me to keep using my head so it does not atrophy

Still would like to hear from Tony as to which features he felt were missing so maybe the community could get behind Tony to push those features to the top of the development list...
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Walt - KZ1F

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Seems to me the goal is to close the barn door before the horses leave. I guess y'all are a bunch of city slickers. Like burt's scorpion, "wait, wait, it'll be different this time".
(Edited)
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SteveM

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Yes, Howard. I agree. According to Tony, a Flex-6K can't compete with an FT-whatever. It's a bold statement and I'd like to know what I'm missing. I know you've referenced Sherwood a bunch of times before. Did they really have the same opinion as Tony? Flex-6K can't compete?
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N3NER

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a Flex-6K can't compete with an FT-whatever?  Really?  What the heck am I missing and I have had MANY Yaesu's..  Oh well, must be my age or my flex happens to be better then any rig I have owned (which is many).
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Tony Stated:

"a yaesu,works rite out of the box,flex packed away until it can compete with the mainstream radios,give us a shout when you do."

But unfortunately Tony has yet to elaborate on which features are missing from the Flex that makes the Yaesu work so much better for his sort of operating?

So we are all speculating in the dark and coming to a myriad of likely wrong conclusions until we actually hear from Tony

@TONY

Please elaborate on what is not competitive in your Flex with your Yaesu..

BTW... one point I can give Tony.. you can open up the Yaesu box, plug it in and it works right away... The Flex needs you to set up computer software and networks before it works.
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Walt - KZ1F

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The fallacy you, Steve, and Bill are suffering under is that somehow Tony owes you, or us, a further explanation. No, he really doesn't. Why should one engage with people who, predictably, will just lecture him on how he's wrong?
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N3NER

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Tony, the only advice I have is to not give up so quickly.  About a year ago I sold a 6500  fed up waiting for the next release that had FM and a few other things.  Sold it and got a ICOM 7600 which was a great radio.  However, I found myself basically trying to duplicate a flex with a pan adapter.  So long story short, here I am back to a flex 6300 (6500 was not worth the cost to me) and I can tell you from experience, it was a bad move moving away from flex.  I have spoken to the CEO of flex many time about my issues and he and his staff was always helpful.  But my heat of the moment got the best of me.  I have had a long list of radios, Yaesu = 990, 847, 1000MP, 1000D, 1000mp MarkV, 2000, 450, 101, 102, 757, 767 and many of their mobile rigs.  Icom's = 9100, 7600, 746, 756 and a few others I'm sure I forgot about.

So in short, Stick with it!   Oh and I'm an elder too, 62 years young. 
(Edited)
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Lee, Elmer

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All this arm chair philosophizing, perseverating and pop psych mumbo jumbo is a hoot.  I didn't marry my freakin radio, but I do love my Flex radio in that it satisfies the curiosity in my personality.  This is America.  Buy what you like!  Tony made the right decision, he bought what he likes!  Bravo.  I bought a Anan 100D, nice radio but in the end I decided I didn't like it, so I sold it.  I bought a KX3.  I decided I didn't like it so I'm going to sell it.  Neither of those radio were satisfying to me even though they are "SDR".    I liked my 6300, so I bought a 6500 and I like that one too.   I like the constant development, the plasticity and high performance Flex SDR presents.  The point being: I like what I like, Tony likes what he likes.  It's not more complicated than that.

73  W9OY
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N3NER

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His post was not so much what he liked, more that he was being impatient. 
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Walt - KZ1F

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or, simply, the free pass he granted FRS expired. I wouldn't consider 2 years being impatient. More importantly, I am guessing, neither did Tony.
(Edited)
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Bill -VA3WTB

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I remember when I bought my Flex 3000 it took 4 years before PSDR had all the features, and working, and even then the noise mitigation still is not the best. I am glad I stuck with it, very nice radio. So watching SSDR develop is nothing new for me, and considering the 6000 platform is just getting going. There is lots to look forward too.
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k3Tim

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I once waited 7 years (on order) for a telescope, 1 year with full deposit.  That was patience.  Having had the 6.5k for over 6 months now, it's tops in my book.  Once SSDR 1.4 came out I think FRS hit their stride + never have seen this level of interaction with customers.  I don't think it's so much FRS gets a free pass when we are able to make good use of the gear (at least one should be able to) whilst they continue the s/w effort, with freebie updates.

Now back to some SWL for me.
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Lee, Elmer

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Walt

There is no "free pass".  That concept is simply a fabrication of yours placed on the radio.  It purposely implies since the radio isn't finished there is something wrong.  It's the nature of the radio to never be done by definition.  It develops in a step-wise and systematic way instead of springing fully formed from the head of Zeus.  I have news for you Zeus and your theory are both myths.   In actuality the radio is more like a growing tree.  What you are proposing is you would blame the farmer because his tree has not yet matured, even though it is actively maturing.  It's the nature of the oak to be young and immature before it grows into its destiny.  If a radio that is never done frustrates you then buy a radio that is set in stone like a Yaesu.   It would seem to me you as a programmer would understand this.  
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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Ah, predictable as always Lee. And, once again, completely missed the point. If one dumps your beloved Flex, yeah, I am guessing there is something 'wrong'. So why not take your oak tree and, um, bury it somewhere. I understand you don't 'get' this thread. It is completely contrary to what you hold most dear in life. So, before you decide to attack me, you need to decide if the is something you really want to engage in.
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Jim Best

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Hi Tony, Sorry to hear you are disappointed with your flex, considering it is fairly new technology and the software is a work in progress; I can't imagine what you could expect. However if you are so unhappy, box the radio up and send it to me. I have a 6300 I absolutely love. Does it have some shortcomings, sure it does but I have confidence the flex crew will eventually work out those shortcomings and various bugs. As for getting assistance from forum members, Windows has been using this for years and there are knowledgeable folks who can answer your questions and you don't wait until Flex HQ answers the help line. I'll gladly send along my address if you are desperate to unload your Flex.
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N7AIG

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I have to say that when the 6K series was first announced I had high hopes that Ethernet connectivity meant that we'd finally cut the umbilical to the Windows computer. Sadly, Windows is still very much a part of Flex radio operations and is probably the greatest source of frustration and angst.

Rather than adding to the existing Windows woes that I have to face from day to day, I'm holding off purchasing a 6K until such time as we can move beyond Windows. I understand the frustration. I have enough of it without Flex on the Windows machine. It's in the nature of Windows.

Still waiting and hoping...
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Walt - KZ1F

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Two years ago I asked the same question and was told,'the 6000 series removes the requirement for Windows' it absolutely does not. Subsequent to that, as a owner, when pushing for Smart SDR for anything other than Windows, I was told that was never going to happen.
(Edited)
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John n0snx

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Tony, sorry to hear about your disappointment with your 6000 series radio...

I had an 80 meter friend that had a Flex 5000 and loved it... he sold it and bought a 6000 series and had it less than a month and sold it ... Said he would never have another 6000 series radio...

 The reason I mentioned my 80 meter friend is to bring to point that beyond popular belief(by reading some of the comments here) FRS radio is not for everybody for whatever reason... All the persuading in the world will not work....

.I have been a Flex user for about 6 years and really like their products... I am spoiled with SDR radio.... I don't think i could ever go back to a knob radio... hihi
I have own a lot of radios over the years (including the Apache Labs series) and none have impressed me as much as the new Flex 6000 series ...(I have 2 now)  The receiver is the best I have ever had.. I can't see me owning anything else...

That being said... I live out in the country away from most of the noise issues that many have to endure...So we all have our own reasons to either love/hate certain radios...

My hat is off to FRS for bringing Ham radio into the future with their products..

Good luck Tony, I wish you all the best and I hope your new Yaesu fits your working conditions better than your Flex did... 73
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Simon Lewis

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I really don't know what you guys do around windows ..... I use it everyday ... all day in my career.. have done for years ... and I have never suffered the issues or trouble I see reported .. There is nothing wrong with windows in itself .. I think people have problem understanding PC's, manufacturers of cheap hardware have trouble writing decent drivers and cloned chipsets don't function properly.

My Flex 6500 is the best radio I have owned and I have had a few! The TS590's I have are great too but no panadapter. I drove a friends FT5K and thought it one of the worst radios I have the displeasure to use.

Maestro will get rid of the PC, to an extent. And probably the 4O3A SO2R add on will go a whole step further.

I am not sure what the gentleman in question thinks is missing. Performance is outstanding, great feature set, easy to drive. Coupled with the Maestro it will be the killer radio.

So much so I want Flex 6.5K number two for my station ... nothing else on the market touches it.

My Flex 1500 and Powersdr was terrible ...I sent it back and got a refund.... the 6000 series is worlds apart and from what I have done with it .. top of the pile ...  no way I want to trade that!

My 2 cents worth!

73 Simon ZL4PLM

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