Ethernet rewire

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I have decided to rewire by cat5 shack to cat6. Is there any advantage to using cat6a instead? Mni tnx.
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Posted 2 years ago

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Norm - W7CK

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Cat6 is suitable for up to 10 gigabit Ethernet at 250 MHz. It greatly reduces crosstalk by incorporating an internal separator that isolates pairs from one another. Its a good way to "future-proof" your residential or commercial network as much as possible without a significant cost increase, Cat 6 is a great choice.

Cat6a doubles the Cat6 performance specifications and provides much better crosstalk rejection. 

I can't remember if both Cat6 and Cat6a provide shielded connectors or not, but all of mine are shielded.  I also believe I remember seeing that Flex recommended to NOT use shielded cable, but I've been using it for nearly 2 years without any problems.

Cat6 and cat6a are larger and a bit heavier than Cat5.  Don't bend them very sharp.  Make sure all of your turns have a nice long radius.

As has been mentioned in earlier posts here on the community: Use fiber or wifi to isolate your ham switch from any other routers, access points, or switches that provide POE to security cameras or support any long runs of Cat cables.  This will help prevent EMP enduced surges caused by lightning from traveling across the long runs of cat cable back to your ham gear and causing damage.

Their may be more benefits, but I can't recall what they are.
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AA0KM

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I used Fiber media converter between the flexradio and  now have to find voltage down converter because the 5VDC switch power supply are noisy. Have  to convert from my 13.8 quiet power supply down.


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Rick - N4RZ

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Have you considered going to shielded cat7 cable.   The price difference is minimal.
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Norm - W7CK

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Its pretty hard to find CERTIFIED cat7 patch cords and unless you have a lot of experience it is pretty hard to make up your own and have them meet specs.  Putting ends on cat7 cable yourself and having them meet specs would certainly help build your skill set though.  I personally don't see any advantage going with cat7 unless your building a data center and want to run it between servers or something like that.  I go fiber in that case.  Cat6 or Cat6a should be more than adequate and easy to deal with.  This is just my opinion, others my think differently.
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Philip KA4KOE

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How about multimode fiber??? Now we're talking BIG MONEY.
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Thanks for the replies chaps. I want to stop break in as I read her that it was almost mandatory to use cat 6 in the shack for that purpose. I intend to use shielded as I think that is a good thing. I just wanted to know if cat6 or cat 6a was better. No run in shack longer than 2-3 meters. 73 de Guy.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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I wired my house and my church's new phone system with CAT6 (it sure was fun putting on all of those connectors, but I quickly mastered it)  

If I remember correctly, not only does CAT6 have the little plastic separator to eliminate crosstalk and maintain a standardized twist rate, i believe that CAT6 also incorporates a different twist pitch for each of the 4 pairs of wires.  This also helps reduce crosstalk.  (I am not positive that CAT5 didn't also have this.  I went straight from premade CAT5 to self-installed CAT6)

My next step will be to explore a 65ft run of dual fiber-optic from the router in the living room to my ham shack on the other side of the house.  It is a little pricey, but coming down.  

BTW... I have often wondered whether using lengths of excess CAT6 as antenna wire would be any more efficient than regular antenna wire, due to the added diameter of the multiple twisted pairs with different pitch?  It wouldn't be like a cage dipole or "horse fence" wire, but would it be noticeable?
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Norm - W7CK

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Just go with Cat6a if you have it and feel comfortable putting on the connectors.  Its not all that hard and 6a gives you better crosstalk isolation.  Done!
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G7BCX

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Guy,

Cat6 is fine for our needs. No real benefit unless you are thinking of streaming TV/4K HD etc.

I did the same upgrade from radio to PC and switch and router a while back when I first got the F6k.  No noticeable change in RFI on the upper or lower HF bands. What made the biggest different for me was a couple of largish FT240 ferites at each end with about 8 turns on each. Gained me nearly 1 s-point in noise level reduction on 40m. Make sure you order the cable about 1-2m longer than you really need for the coils.
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G7BCX

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Forgot to say the flat cat 7 is so much easier when winding on ferrites. See example here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Warranty-Veetop-Networking-Connector-9-8ft-White/dp/B00XU1MXIS/ref=sr_1_3?i...

Great for laying under carpet too.
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Steven, I have a particular problem with on PC in that the ethernet connection dies when I tx. That is the only reason I am thinking of changing the cables. I have loads of snapon type 31 ferrites and the cables are cheap so may as well go for it. Just trying to find suppliers for the bits (ooer matron). I am not doing this for the speed as my gigabyte network works FB.
(Edited)
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AA0KM

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable

Cat5E here put in years back. It was what was given to me left over from a 1000ft spool.

Cheap enough.

Not worried too much. Not going to hit 10Gbs any time soon!

No issues.

(Edited)
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Stan - VA7NF

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CAT cables use balanced (2 wires) for each data channel and a balanced transformer at the input to each device.  CAT6 specs are better for common mode rejection where CAT5 specification devices did let more common mode (RF) signals into the equipment.  Use CAT6 equipment where possible.

Avoid joining chassis to chassis with shielded cable as that introduces RF ground loops.

My suggestion is to use CAT6 STP (single shield) or SSTP (double shield) cables fanning out from a switch PROVIDED the shield is interrupted by a non-shielded joiner (double female) and another cable to the remote equipment.

I'm working on getting special CAT6 cables made that have non-shielded connectors on ONE END with a ferrite bead at that end.  This will give the protection of shielded cables without the ground loop.

Stan

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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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Guy, almost certainly no noticeable difference between CAT5 and 6 (or beyond) for the short runs in a typical home installation. Biggest bang for your buck is making sure the connectors are securely installed and the cable runs are not kinked. If noise is a concern, ferrites are a good investment that will probably not lead to other problems. Shielded CAT sometimes leads to ground loops, so I'd recommend that only cautiously.
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Paul Bradbeer

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Stan, Thanks for the advice. My three 1m Cat6 cables arrived today, and I have just ordered three 12cm Cat5 patch cables and some Cat5 (unshielded) couplers; so each run of my patch cable will now consist of a 1m Cat6 cable, unshielded coupler and then a small 12cm Cat5 patch cable.  Sorted!  :-)
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Paul,

IIRC you are in the UK? If so could you let me have the name of your supplier for these items? I am busy searching myself at the moment.

TIA es 73 de Guy
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Paul Bradbeer

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Yes Guy, I'm in Lincoln. I just searched eBay and found 12cm Cat5 rj45 patch cables and couplers from a firm called 'Let's Buy Cables' (yes...a bit of a strange Company name if you ask me...). Hope that helps. Paul
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Walt - KZ1F

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Ah, interesting Stan, then the electrician used cat-6a as I was told this is shielded. Thanks, I learned something I didn't know!
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Hi Paul,

Thanks, that should do the trick. I was contacting some firms that custom-make cables to check their prices, but they all seemed a tad puzzled by my request about the shielding and the reason for wanting a 'broken' cable.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Guy

Stan is 100% correct.. you do not want continuous shielding all the way between the various network devices or you will definitely have ground loops.

I have use Stan's solution myself and it definitely gets rid of ground loops... Cat 6, 6a or 7 are all good as long as you break up  the shield with something like an unshielded jointer.   STP is a very good solution if only one end is grounded.. as it definitely will reduce stray RF egress or ingress....

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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Hi Howard,

Would a short cat 5e extender (plug one end, socket at the other) do the trick? From what I have read, that little device would not have a through connection for the shielding.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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You can buy an inexpensive coupler on Amazon UK


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Philex-70421RE-CAT6-RJ45-Coupler/dp/B009LL514E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1...

Just make sure it is not the shielded model

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Peter K1PGV, Elmer

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Just a quick side-note: wiring your own connectors and getting them to work is easy. However, wiring your own connectors and getting them to pass Cat6 sweep testing is HARD. Most people would not be comfortable wiring an RJ45 with the *tiny* amount of untwisting required to get the cable to pass certification.
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Hi Peter,

Nice to hear from you again.

I have never wired any ethernet cables and do not know if it would be economical as I only need about 5 x 2m lengths.
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Ned K1NJ

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Guy,
 
  Buy them.  Unless a cable has to be a custom length, it can save a lot of
time.

         Ned,  K1NJ

  What do you folks use for a crimping tool?
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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For those who mentioned Fiber Option Ethernet, could you point me to online resources and share a bit about how you did your Fiber.

I have two Fiber objectives:

  1. The decoupling as Al NN4ZZ has described.
  2. A 400 foot run from my Island QTH to the tower base service shed.

Thank you in advance & 73

Steve K9ZW

(Edited)
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Philip KA4KOE

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I didn't do my own. Of course, since we are all told that 100m is the practical limit for UTP, fiber is the alternative; a pricey one at that. If you have a very short run, then there is no reason to go the expensive optical fiber route.

Also consider that you may be better served with a higher power Wifi solution with directional/gain antennae to remote link via 5 GHz.

Long copper runs buried outside also have the nasty habit of acting like antennas via induced surge from nearby lightning strikes. Now you have to worry about TVSS on both ends of the run.....the costs just keep adding up. Of course, a really close strike will fry everything regardless. I know this from personal experience.

Trenching and backfilling a 400 foot run will not be cheap, easy, or fun to execute.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Humor me on the 400 foot run as there are logistical reasons for it and I could have mentioned power doesn't have to go this far, nor feed lines. 

The trenching needs are enough that I went in with a consortium and bought a good sized DitchWitch.  I have 2000 ft of trenching to do, including another 1600 ft of "getting done while the trencher is there" future use trenching. 

A lot of this has to do with long-term plans.

I could really do with a tutorial on the Fiber though!

73

Steve K9ZW

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Kevin Va3KGS

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Morning Stephen

Look at WWW.AREDN.ORG software programmed into Ubiguity 2.4 / 5.6 routers, www.ubnt.com/products. (Nano Station M, Bullets......).

Great Stuff out there!!

Good Luck

Kevin, Va3KGS


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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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@ Steve,

Sounds like the start of a plan for World domination or the independence of a 51st state, hi hi.
(Edited)
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Steve (N9SKM)

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http://www.amazon.com/MC200CM-Converter-1000Mbps-multi-mode-mountable/dp/B003AVRLZI
2 of those 
and one of these?
http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Multimode-500-ft-N520-152M/dp/B000NMAB2W

If you decide to go wireless i use the 2.4 versions of these (2.4 is a bit more robust as i am shooting thru trees to a house around a mile away)
http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-0000070700985-NanoStation-loco-M5/dp/B004EHSV4W/ref=sr_1_15?s=electro...
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Steve - G8KNC

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Al / NN4ZZ

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@Steve,
Here is a resource you may want to look at for outdoor fiber cables as well as converters, etc.  They will make custom cables, etc.   Be sure to look at MULTI-MODE cables and converters. 

http://www.fiberopticcableshop.com/lodica.html

I haven't used this vendor and I'm sure there are others but it may give you some information to consider. 

My shack -- The items I used were for indoor use and from Amazon.  You may want to get a set and experiment with them before tackling the big job. 

http://www.nn4zz.com/FLEX6700.htm#Ethernet_Lightning_Protection

If I was going to run ethernet to the towers like you are planning, I'd rent a trencher and put in some 2" or 3" PVC and then still use outdoor fiber cable.  The PVC will not only provide extra protection but allow you to pull another cable later if you need to without retrenching.   I've gone that route and have about 1,000 feet of 3" PVC to my towers for the coax and control cables. 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
6700 - HW.................... V 1.6.21.77
SSDR / DAX / CAT...... V 1.6.21.159
Win10
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Many thanks!  Will start reading!

73

Steve

K9ZW

(BTW the isolation may be a use to Guy in the UK with his RFI issue.)

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Al / NN4ZZ

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Steve,
Agree on the RF isolation benefit.  I initially went with fiber to avoid a lightning surge from taking out the ethernet interface on the radio but I was also having RF induced lockups.  

RF can enter the radio from several places and the long runs of cat copper is one of them, so a fiber link can only help. 

I also added ferrites to all of the other cables and while it's hard to say for sure what had the biggest impact I think it was the ferrites on the coax.   Here is the long version of my solution for anyone interested.

http://www.nn4zz.com/FLEX6700.htm#RF_issues_and_solutions

By the way another benefit of the "outdoor" fiber cables is you can get "pull hooks" installed on the cables so it takes the strain off when feeding through the PVC.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
6700 - HW.................... V 1.6.21.77
SSDR / DAX / CAT...... V 1.6.21.159
Win10

 
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Trevor-EI2GLB

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Sorry to jump on this but I am getting loads of birdies on 6m on my flex 6500 using a separate receiver the only way to stop these is to unplug the cable connecting the flex to my router,
If I swap to a shielded cable am I going to be making more problems for my self??

Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Trevor;


First does your router have a metal or plastic case?

If it is metal.. Have you grounded the case of the Router

Are you feeding power to your router from a DC bus or using the Wall Wart that came with it.

If you have been reading the above.. a shielded cable will not hurt you IF the shield is only connected at one end to ground and in fact it may help a bit

You can also put lots of ferrites on your cables to suppress the birdies..


Hope this helps..

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Trevor-EI2GLB

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The router is in a plastic case, so would it be safe enough to use a shielded cable as it won't be grounded at the router end ???

I'm using the supplied wall wart but as I mentioned the noise goes when I disconnect the cable from the flex I have 3 other LAN cables coming out of the router and there is no noise on them,

I need to get some 31 mix beads and do some choking,

Thanks for the reply

73
Trevor
EI2GLB
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Try lots of ferrites first.
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K0UNX

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If you look on Amazon.com, you can do a search on "Ethernet COUPLER UNSHIELDED" -or shielded.  You'll see a wide selection of both unshielded and shielded couplers.  Just choose the UNshielded ones to patch in a short patch cable.  That will break your shield to stop ground loops.  No need for a "broken" cable.
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Thanks James. Not for the first time, and I am certain not the last, the most obvious choice of search terms do not cross this addled mind of mine.

BTW, I am seeing both cat5 and cat 6 couplers. I assume both can be used to join shielded cat 6 cable with a short cat 5 (unshielded) cable? Sorry, but the only thing I eally know about Ethernet is how to spell it <g>.
(Edited)
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K0UNX

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Aye, I'm not conversant with the terms and differences between CAT5, CAT6 & CAT7, but you don't even need a short UNshielded cable.  With an unshielded coupler, THE SHIELD IS BROKEN, therefore both ends can be shielded, but the shields won't be connected to each other, so there's no "ground loop" to worry about.  :D 
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David Warnberg

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Everything you ever wanted to know about different cabling and more..  lots of info here plus they carry cat5e, cat6, cat6a, cat7... as well as fiber OM1, OM2, OM3, OM4, single mode....

http://www.showmecables.com/department/Cables.aspx
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Smashing link David, mni tnx.
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Paul Bradbeer

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Guy,  just for clarity...the only reason I'm using a short patch cable is because the couplers are predominantly for joining two cables....you can get an adaptor which plugs in to a socket and gives you two or three sockets, but I decided I didn't want that much congestion on the back of my Ethernet switch...for me the more elegant solution was to use a simple 'back to back' coupler and add a 12cm Cat5 patch cable (which also allows me to get 2 passes through a clip-on ferrite).  HTH  Paul
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Hi Paul,

Thanks for the extra info. I think I have enough to go on now. Thanks to you and everybody else who have contributed to this thread so far.
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Ed Woodrick

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This one is easy. Monster cable makes some mighty expensive cables for Ethernet, as well as HDMI and audio.
While there could be a slight advantage to using better quality analog cables, there is absolutely no quality gained in digital cables, as long as it works.
If a CAT5 is working, then a CAT6 isn't going to do any better. Ok, it may do a higher speed, but who has a 1 Gbps ISP connection? Let alone a 10 Gbps connection (and the cards to support it).

While I'm guessing that the 6700 may use slightly more than 10 Mbps, I don't think that the 6300 or even the 6500 would.

I just laugh when I see all of these wireless home routers support 350 Mbps, and the people who buy them think that they make a difference. When your ISP only has a 10 Mbps connection, you just ain't going to use 350 Mbps up.

Now granted, I've got a server farm in the house and it does make a difference to me. But most people don't. Most people are always just connecting to the Internet.

Never buy the Monster cable. Never buy the new "Digital Antennas" They are all marketing gimmicks.

CAT6 is definitely required in today's corporate environments, but there are very few home environments where it would be missed.

Ed WA4YIH
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Paul

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True, higher speed wifi cannot improve on the internet speed being provided by an ISP but it DOES enable higher speed communication between devices on the LAN. Particularly useful on a busy LAN. Personally I am happy to enjoy this benefit and would not wish to revert to 54Mbs wifi.
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Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

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Ed, The whole point about my originally asking about CAT 6 was due to their cables being screened and CAT5/5e cables generally not being. It had nothing to do with performance. In fact, it was generated by somebody more knowledgable than myself saying that CAT5/5e cable had no place in a shack.
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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I have 300/300 Fiber in Madrid and get this.... I can get up to 1Gb up and down in Barbados, also Fiber. I opted for the 250/100 in Barbados for $50/mo.
I have to have gigabit switches to take full advantage of the download speed in both households. I have a lot of 10/100 obsolete gear at home. Granted Cat5 limit of 1Gbit will take sometime to be surpassed in the USA which lags behind other places as far as internet speed is concerned, and even Cat6 with a theoretical 10Gbit up to 160ft runs will default to 1Gb in longer runs.

All said and done, if I was laying cable for a new house/radioshack I would go Cat7 and forget about it for years to come... in a house, given the length of wires is not a huge difference in price. Maybe the grandkids will take full advantage of it.... :)

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