Community Posts getting closed?

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  • Updated 2 years ago
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Why is it that when someone asks a question that FRS might not like, the posting gets closed to comment?

For example a German Ham asked about the Fee payable for the new Software release and it was simply closed.

There are many of us that feel a little hard done by and would like to say so.

Donovan

ZS2DL

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Donovan van Loggerenberg

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Posted 2 years ago

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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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The tax issue was answered and Gerald already explained it yesterday. Flex actually makes less profit from selling a license to EU because of the VAT issue, and the fact that they need to pay a company to collect and remit the tax for them. And since Flex does business in the EU, there is absolutely NO away around collecting the tax. It's in a 2015 EU regulation specifically targeting downloaded software.


Asking Flex not to collect VAT is essentially looking for them to be banned from the EU or to face further penalties such as fines (and they'd likely have to pay the taxes anyway and eat the cost). They really don't want to incur the wrath of the EU governments so instead they choose to comply and collect the tax.
(Edited)
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Donovan van Loggerenberg

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Mamm, I understand the VAT issue is an EU thing, but why should someone who bought a radio in good faith less than a year ago have to pay to improve the radios receiver performance?

Why should someone have to pay for functionality that was promised at time of purchase by the Flex rep.... and still have functionality not available that was promised at time of purchase? ie Dual Client functionality, of Maestro and SmartSDR?

It has made many many people very unhappy.


Donovan, ZS2DL

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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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The performance improvements will be included in the 1.11 maintenance release. Only if you want 2.0 with smartlink and new features will you be required to pay.

The other stuff you were "promised" I hadn't heard of but 2.0 being a paid upgrade isn't exactly something new. This was known for a while now.
(Edited)
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Donovan van Loggerenberg

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V2.0 was always going to be a Pay for Upgrade. I realise. But then make it worthwhile. Half the junk will never be used!

Yes I read that too about the Maintenance release 1.11. However, many purchases are based on promotional videos, where it can be seen that Maestro unplugs and runs while SmartSDR is also running in the background. This will not be in any maintenance releases right? So we have to pay.

The fact that the 6300 was discontinued, 5 months after I purchased the unit new, and replaced by something that can do what it was suppose to do in the first place!

Why not fix first!

If I was the sales person I would be honest and tell my client if this is what you want rather wait, there is something better coming.

 Anyway I am not arguing any more, but I promise That I will tell everyone I meet to be careful of empty promises and salesman talk.

(Edited)
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David Decoons wo2x, Elmer

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If the features in the 2.0 release are not applicable to your operating style, hold off buying it. When a new 2.x release comes out with features you feel are worth the money, then you purchase the upgrade. 

If you go back to the original roadmap (was supposed to be only 4 releases as part of 1.x before they would charge for the upgrade), Flex as added quite a few other features along the way that were not planned in the 1.x release

2.0 was always targeted as being the wide area network capable software release. Since I do quite a bit of remote operating this is a release I have been looking forward to. Add in the support for USB to cat/BIT/BCD cable direct from the radio to your peripherals that was added with the 1.10 release and it makes for a nice plug and play remote base without the need for a PC at the radio site.

I do have a 6500 installed at a remote site now and another 6500 at home. I use the remote site for 6 and 160 meters.

So sit back and see what innovative features Flex adds in future releases.
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DL2KBQ

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First of all I want to tell You, that the VAT issue was a secondary thing. I am mostly interested in performance improvements, not so in the new features at all.
I highly appreciate that the V1.1xx Software seems to be supported in the future too..
The last release of the V1.1xx was in february 2017, so I believed that the end of support comes automatically with the realease of V2.xx. - I hope the new release V1.11.x comes before the christmas 2017! ?

The second thing is the VAT issue. I am B2B and reseller, Service provider for repairs of Ham Radio Equipment, so it is a mixed hobby and business enviroment. I am not a tax evader, but I don ́t want to pay things I don ́t have to pay for. Between the EU it ́s possible to get a bill without the VAT if you tell Your Business Partner your own VAT number, like DEXXXXX. I am not sure about 3rd states like the USA, I thought it was equal. Let me give a example. If You send me this software by DVD and post office, it will be catched from the customs and i have to pick it up at the customs office. They will create a tax bill and I have to pay for the 19% VAT. After this the custom tax bill goes into my accounting, because I am entitled to deduct VAT it is refundable by the tax authorities. Zero game for both sides! If I make the software deal by the download, you collect the tax, OK so, but is the tax refundable and separately expelled at the bill ?

I forgot to say, that ́s unfortunately not possible to get the Upgrade 2.xx through the dealers in germany "Appello" told me that ́s a non listed product, upgrades are only possible directly from flexradio. I would prefer to buy in germany.

Best regards! de DL2KBQ
(Edited)
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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I would imagine that if your VAT number makes you truly exempt for all radio/electronic/software purchases, you can file for a refund with your national tax office. FRS is doing things the way that they and their attorneys have determined is their legal obligation.

FRS has historically made it their policy not to try and tread "grey areas" of the law, whether it is tax law, emissions purity, or frequency capabilities for foreign operators.

Much of their "other" business involves government and multinational organizations. It would not be healthy to take risks of borderline legality to save a few Dollars here and there and put their international business authorization at risk.

Trust me, it is more of a pain in the backside for them than it is for you.

As far as the software upgrade fee itself...the policy has been public and repeatedly discussed on this forum, the Flex website, Facebook page, yahoo group, and others for at least three years.

In the beginning, over four years ago, the original policy called for a $199 per year software maintenance fee. It was changed not long after the rig's began shipping in favor of a paid major upgrade system, which has been much more economical in the long run.

Ken - NM9P
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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@Horst-Andre DL2KBQ

Can understand your pickle having run a group of factories in Europe myself. 

Does PayPal allow you to register your VAT Number with them so you can "balance the books?"

FRS has said that version 2.0 needs to settle down before they backwards code in the improvements into v1.11, but refuses to put a time frame on the process. 

Intuitively I'd suggest looking to sometime in Q4 for a v1.11 release if we were betting on it.

73

Steve K9ZW

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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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If it were me, I'd contact sales before buying the license to ask about a tax exemption for business purposes. However, this is not guaranteed and without being a reseller or partner the transaction will probably end up as a B2C. 
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Yes, please contact sales at flexradio dot com regarding any B2C transactions.  
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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I think you mean B2B. :)
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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Ria, good catch.  Yes, I meant B2B.
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Steve W6SDM

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Official Response
Having been around since the Flex community only had an email reflector, I have seen what happens when threads that have the potential for heated argument get out of hand.  Comments get personally insulting, whether they're actually meant to or not, and before you know it the forum turns into a full-fledged flame war.

Since this forum is about Flex radio related discussion, there really isn't a place intellectual battle.  I believe that the moderator has seen enough of this to know when it's time to pull the plug on a thread.

Personally, I would rather have that happen than wade through a bunch of arguments and personal assaults on the forum.  And since Flex does provide this to us free of charge, they do have the authority to make the rules.
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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@Donovan

There is always a cut-off date.  Simply the facts a manufacturer has to set and deal with. 

New models come out, and buying in the run-up to Dayton is always a bit fraught, but then again you have your Flex-6300 back then rather than waiting until the newer models start delivery. 

Not familiar with the video you have mentioned. 

Rather certain though it did NOT purport to have simultaneous clients as a product feature, and FRS has been crystal clear all along once they started officially addressing the multi-client features that this would be a later feature in the version 2 series. 

With SDR on a FlexRadio Development Program there is ALWAYS something better coming.  Always!   One's real choice is the product at the time you purchase suited for your needs or are you better to wait.  That is a personal decision.

Regardless you have a hell of a fine radio, one that if updated with v2.0 has a demonstrable improvement (or you can wait some months for the v 1.11 update to be issued). 

Catch you on the air!

73

Steve K9ZW


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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Official Response
Donovan,

With all due respect, you will not have to pay for v1.11 when it comes out to get the performance enhancements you mentioned.

Further, "multi client" has never at any point in time been promised by FlexRadio to be included in version 1 of SmartSDR.  This has always been stated as a feature that will come in the future after version 2.0 without a specific date attached.  We have now delivered all of the publicly promised features on the roadmap for v1.x through the initial release of v2.0 and have added a very large number of features that were never promised.  

As we have stated on the community many times in the last few weeks, v1.11 will come after we have sufficient test time on v2.0.17.  V1.11 will be a back port of v2.0 with bug fixes and performance enhancements included.  You won't be able to tell the difference in the performance enhancements unless you have the lab equipment to test.

Version 2 has been discussed over an over for at least three years here on the community so there is nothing new to say on the subject.

The only open public promises I am aware of at this time to be delivered are v1.11 maintenance release and multi client operation.   We will not provide a date for either until they are ready to ship.

Finally, we hate the cost and hassle of dealing with VAT worse than you hate paying for it.  ;>)

73,
Gerald
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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@Horst

I would suspect that Flex can give you a VAT paid receipt for you to submit to your tax authority
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Donovan van Loggerenberg

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Hi Guys,

Firstly, I want to say I am very happy with my 6300 and what it can do. However I think the goal here

was simply to say: 1st forum posts get closed way to soon. 2nd that V2.0.17 was not what we were

expecting, in that many are waiting for the multi client feature. 3rd that after the 6300 gets removed from production, now we must hear that it was inferior prior to the V2.0 fix and those that want to wait

for a worthwhile release before parting with $200.....has to wait additional time to have the inferior receiver fix for their 6300!


Patience has never been one of my strong points. AND its simply frustration!

Donovan

ZS2DL

 

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Gerald - K5SDR, Employee

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Donovan,

The facts are that multi client was never promised for v2.0 and we have never promised a date either.  All we have ever said about multi client is that it will be after v2.0.  

Second, you almost certainly will not hear a difference on the air with the increased receiver performance unless you have multiple 50 over S9 signals close by your received frequency.  It's like driving on city streets in a car that has a top speed of 160 mph vs. one with a top speed of 150 mph.  We just happened to find a way in software to increase the speed to 160 mph.  It will look better in the lab.

Gerald
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Bragging, rights, right Gerald?

In 1977, my Senior Year in High School, during the government mandated 55 MPH speed limits, my Government & Economics teacher drove a brand new white Corvette.  

He used to joke about getting behind some pokey joker on the interstate 70 on-ramp.

"Once we were on the interstate, I could pass him and ZZZIIIIPPP all the way up to 55 miles an hour....and show him them twin tailpipes...!"  

A Corvette is sort of wasted in a 55 MPH speed zone......(My guess is that Mr. Bishop got a lot of speeding tickets...)

I heard Rob Sherwood say at Dayton that anything better than 85 dB dynamic range, for most normal amateur situations, is just bragging rights.  (But then there are the multi-multi contest stations...)

However, I still get the feeling that my 6500 is bothered much less by the two different Kilowatt hams less than a mile away than their TS-850 and IC-735 are bothered by my 100 watts.  Perhaps it is just my own bragging rights...
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Bill -VA3WTB

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It was not long ago people would use the test stats to separate the best radios from the rest, now since Flex has great test stats suddenly the numbers don't mean anything...lol
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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Oh how true. Now it's "all of the top radios are good."
Which is actually true... but it's nice to be ahead of the pack. :)
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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I have been in situations, Field Day, etc, or contesting with nearby hams running KW+, where my Kenwood TS-850SAT, (as good as it was), sometimes suffered from overload.  

Now my friend has it, and is one of those nearby KW+ guys. (.8 miles away with a TH11DXX)  The only thing that bothers me from his station, or even more the Icom KW nearby is the Phase noise from their transmitters. The Icom's phase noise seems to be much worse than the Kenwood.

The only time any strong station ever bothers my 6500 is when I have my WNB or NB turned up too high!  (Or if one of the other stations in town overdrives his rig trying to yell through a DX pileup...)   The 6500 has been absolutely crunch-proof here.

Ken - NM9P 
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Donovan van Loggerenberg

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Hi Gerald,


Thank you for your reply. I understand that the Multi Client accounts are coming later.

Its just frustrating having to wait. I will continue to watch your website for development news on this.

And if its only in a lab that one will notice the RX difference then its not much of a benefit, so another reason to wait until it becomes available on the maintenance release.

Have a great FLEX day.

73

Donovan