Can FRS let us know if June is spelled J U L Y?

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  • Question
  • Updated 2 years ago
  • Answered

Rather than the huge number of "are we there yet" posts that happen when we get close to a new release of SmartSDR, could FRS lift the curtains enough for the Great Oz to tell us if June needs to become July for version 2.0?

The benefit for me is I know the hams who I help with their Flex-6000s want to upgrade, and I'm hoping to schedule time to help them appropriately.

The benefit for FRS is if the date needs to be extended we get the grumble done with quickly, and without several posts a day asking "is it now?"

Thanks and 73

Steve K9ZW

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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Posted 2 years ago

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KD7CAO

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It better not become another month. Their own printed literature says it is "Available now!"
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WV9L

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Maybe its June of 2018. I was told "by end of first quarter" when i bought my rig in late Nov 2016. Then it became June. But, one thing is for sure, we wont have it for Field Day.
(Edited)
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Michael Coslo

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Would you under any circumstances use a days old program to run your Field Day?
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Kevin - KS0CW

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Yes, its a hobby and doesn't impact work productivity---:)

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Stan - VA7NF

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Not a chance at our FD, wouldn't look at it if available.  
There are enough unexpected problems like burning out a triplexer 40M port at 3AM in a remote field AND a UPS that doesn't like the power generators output waveform thereby discharging the battery with total power loss - two times.
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Ken Hansen

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It's the 23rd, there's still about 1/4th of the month left - have a little faith!
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Jd Dupuy

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I dug up a pair of Red shoes today in Kansas. Plan to clean them up and see if I can squeeze into them. I figure 2 taps should do the trick to get 2.0!
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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The Magic Ruby Slippers was in the movie version. In the original story in the books, they were Silver.

If you trust Hollywood, the real magic doesn't work. (;>p)
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Jd Dupuy

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You're right, I clicked my heels until it hurt. No 2.0! Now my feet hurt.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Keep your slippers on. It is being heavily tested by the Alpha testers to make sure it will be ready to release. The last thing they want to do is release it with hidden bugs and booby traps!
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Mickey N4MB

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Having made a good living managing and performing technology projects, generally the marketing folks are more optimistic than the technical folks... Sometimes, in the pre-ship phase, near the release of product, someone finds one of those "Oh my God, we can't release with THAT" bugs that might take weeks to fix. So the product release might push.

BUT, today is only the 23rd. There's a week left in the month. Kudos to those in the QA process who have the courage to stop issues going into production "no matter what!" 

73,

Mickey N4MB
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Mike - VE3CKO, Elmer

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To entertain myself awaiting the release and to keep from biting my tongue, I'm counting how many new threads will be created asking the same basic question. "Are we there yet?" and how many times Tim is going so basically say "rather than meeting a date deadline, it will be released when it is ready". I think we are safe to say it will be much sooner, than much later.
(Edited)
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Michael Coslo

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First there's the "Are we there yet? threads, then there's the "Download isn't working"threads, then there is the "I'm so disappointed I'm going to jump off a bridge!" threads, then there is the "I had to pay for this?" Threads, then there is all of the other sub threads. I'll buy it when it's ready, and then not check the group for a month.
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David Livingston

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I think I will wait for a month and let everyone using the new software tell me if they have no issues with the well tested Alpha V2.xxx
(Edited)
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Jim Gilliam

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By my accounts of other threads, it is much later.


Jim, K6QE

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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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I highly doubt that.
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KF4HR

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Suffice it to say, if v2.0 is not available yet, there's still has bugs and/or new features being worked out.  Let it be.
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WA2SQQ

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In the past every major update has been released with very few if any major problems. This was the result of waiting to release it until it was right. I'm sure the announcement will come as soon as it's ready for primetime. I'd rather wait than have a buggy release
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NM1W

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1.* has been plagued by dax rcv corruption issues as well as xmit corruption.
1.10.16 has had a lengthy thread about its crashes..
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David Livingston

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The last major release was V1.xxx many years ago. I am still having issues with V1.xxx and its many fixes.  Two steps forward and on step back.  Well at least it is slowly moving forward...
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Thought there was been only one major version level release? (Not counting the preview releases (ver 0.x ) that were limited releases.)

There has been a lot of version 1.point releases, I think three in the last twelve months alone.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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Steve W6SDM

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When my kids were little, like most parents, I always heard, "Are we there yet?" multiple times.  I would always answer no, we have several hours left before we're even close.  That provided a longer duration the between "Are we there yet?" questions.  

When we did arrive it was a pleasant surprise.
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Paul Mandel

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My wife always told the kids "In about and hour."  
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G8ZPX

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but when those children are now in their 50s 60s they expect to be treated like ADULTS!
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Michael Coslo

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They have to act like adults as well.
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Mack McCormick, Elmer

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Official Response
Steve,

Let me assure you that the developers and Alpha team want it released as soon as it is bug free. The Alpha team is receiving frequent code to test and we are close to public ready code barring no new major bugs. Everyone wants you to have a fantastic experience on your first attempt. Quality is more important than an arbitrary date. You'll love the new code when it's released and it will be be like having a new radio.

Respectfully,

Mack
W4AX
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David Livingston

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They have never had a release that was bug free... There is always something...!!!
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Thank you for the feedback Mack

Many thanks to the FRS staff and the tireless Alpha team.

The efforts to bring a great advance in a good quality control passed package is appreciated.

I think we all know that a wider release will complete the "stress testing" and glad the team is onboard to tweak things as needed.

This release might be a good time to try a "best practices" PDF like the FAQ to capture what works good-better-best and what things give v2.0 any heartburn with what sorts it out. Something quicker and dynamiclybupdated like the FAQs.

Again thank you and 73,

Steve
K9ZW
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Dave Dave

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With Flex always ask what year!
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Ross - K9COX

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No forward looking comments are allowed nor will be tolerated
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Mike va3mw

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I have to agree with Mack.  We (the Alpha team) are pounding away on it.  Since I do  a lot of remote operate (almost 100%), it does work.  Those at Dayton saw it when then used any of our stations on the Maestros, mine included.  It was just  like being there.  

You'll love it when it comes out.  Then, the bandwidth tuning will start for everyone.  :)

Mike va3mw
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Larry - WA7LZO

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I am perfectly fine with a release date anytime this summer. I'd much rather have it bulletproof, than rushing it out the door just to meet some artificial date. Let's be patient, ppl!

Br,
Larry
WA7LZO
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Steve W6SDM

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Mark,

My comment may not have sounded like it, but I am solidly on the side of waiting until it's ready.  I don't think I've even discovered all to the tricks on the current release, so there's no need to rush the next one, at least from my perspective.

I have suffered through enough premature market-driven releases of Windows to even consider having that kind of experience with the Flex software.
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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Without getting too specific, 2.0/SmartLink is at a very advanced stage of development, and isn't just a concept or early prototype. It's also up to flex to decide their release dates but I don't see it being very long from now. I have also been testing smartlink on windows, maestro and iOS and the dev team has been hard at work polishing up the final product. The alpha team has also provided very valuable feedback, both directly and letting the dev team directly observe how our radios function. So they have a very good idea of how to get things done.


Trust me when I say it will be worth the wait.
(Edited)
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Mike va3mw

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As Ria says, there is so much more than just writing the application.  While the SmartLink application works well, there is so many things different in how the connections   

Here is how it works.  The developer writes the application and from what he can tell, it is done and works.  Then we get the real world involved with all the 'non-standard' internet stuff (there is no standard) and we find ways that it doesn't work.  It is almost like every internet connection is unique.  High speed networks, low speed, fibre, DSL latency, dropped connections, partially dropped connections.  All these need code to handle error management.  

If you are writing code for everyone to use, almost 25-35% of the lines of code are related to error management.   If you have ever written even the most basic application, you know what I mean if you are giving it to someone else to use.  They will break it on the first attempt.  :)

I have worked for years in the software support industry and have lived this first hand.  If your code doesn't work, the phone will ring off the hook and all you will have is pissed off users and lost customers.

They are close.  

73 all, de va3mw
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Ken Hansen

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i was wondering, since the 2.0 upgrade is being sold at a not insignificant cost, and it supports a very popular function (remote wan control), and, as noted above involves the "non-standard internet stuff" will a potential SmartSDR 2.0 upgrade customer be able to install the SmartSDR software and confirm their internet connection supports SmartLink functionality before they purchase the upgrade?

I understand the software isn't licensed, the radio is - but what I am asking is if a potential upgrade customer will have the ability to confirm that the software is compatible with their "non-standard internet stuff" before purchase?

Thanks.
(Edited)
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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Tim has said that they don't intend to offer a trial period, and 2.0 is more than just WAN. So I'm guessing, no.

Some connections that may not work at all or may not work well:
Double NAT (carrier grade NAT)
Routers where UPnP is disabled/blocked
ISPs that extensively filter inbound connections
High latency connections
Very low bandwidth connections (basic slow DSL, for example)
Some mobile wireless connections

Other than that it seems to work with most home ISPs. 

Ria
(Edited)
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Tom N5MOA

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I'm in the sticks, and have a ATT WIFI sitting on the window sill. It's that or satellite (tried it, no thanks).  My computer connects to it via its built in wireless card, 6500 connected to the computer via Ethernet cable. 

From what I've read (and I know zip about WAN/LAN/VPN/remote), I'm not very confidant SmartLink will do me any good. My interest in operating remote is also pretty low at this point in time, so maybe a moot point.

What I am interested in is "2.0 is more than just WAN". Depending on what "more" is will determine if I upgrade or not.
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Ken Hansen

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Ria, understood.

Not thinking of a 'trial' version so much as an error message that translates to "connection established, radio not authorized" to give the potential upgradera degree of confidence before purchase.

I seem to recall that the SmartSDR 2.X software will be a free download, much like SmartSDR 1.X, but will only function if the radio you attempt to connect to is authorized for SmartSDR 2.0.

Thinking it through, the question really seems to boil down to this:

Will a customer considering the upgrade be able to:

A) download and install free SmartSDR 2.X client
B) establish an account on the SmartSDR 'in-between' service and point it at their home station
C) have the client attempt to access the specified radio
D) get an error message that means 'connection to radio established, radio not authorized for SmartSDR 2.0'

I suspect the 'in-between service' would block the attempt and not try to establish the connection because it knows the radio is not authorized, but it might need to 'ping' the radio to confirm the radio is licensed for SmartSDR 2.0, and if that's the case, that's what I'm asking.
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Pat N6PAT

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Stop badgering the developers! Your constant nagging will produce nothing but more frustration.
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James Whiteway

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The developers are not reading these posts.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Just as a reminder, and to head off an already anticipated wave of "Why wasn't THIS FUNCTION added/enhanced in V.2.0? .... (as neat as the initial release is going to be, there will be some folks who will not be able to resist the expectation that the INITIAL release of V.2.0 should be the ultimate fulfillment of every amateur's fantasy.)

Let us remember that following the initial release, with the main features of WAN Remote, and all of the supporting bits that make it possible...there will undoubtedly be a series of point releases - 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.X, etc in the series.

Flex has given us no idea as to what may be in those additional releases, or how many there may be. But based upon past rexperience, my guess is that there will be several before they move on to the next paid upgrade of V.3.0.

I would hope that we will be spared the endless repetition of "Pre-Holiday stress venting" before each one. (I.e. When the kids begin acting out before Christmas or other major holidays in anticipation of expected holiday goodies.)

It was cute and almost amusing to observe when my son was two years old, but is simply annoying now that he is ten years. It is even more unpleasant when I observe it from fully grown intelligent radio amateurs, repeated every few months during the few weeks leading up to a new software update. (Honest questions and positive suggestions are welcome...rankor and accusations are unnecessary and unhelpful.)

My advise is for everyone to just chill a while longer, snuggled up in our beds with visions of sugarplums dancing in our heads, and await the arrival of the new software sometime in the middle of the night - Perhaps it will be Christmas in June.

Ken - NM9P
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Michael Starkey

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My buying rule is simple: if V2.00 does not encompass what should have rightly been in v1.00000 then I won't buy until it does.

I wont be buying it for the cherry on the cake stuff like remote connect, I will be buying when the radio does what every other good radio can already do.

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Chris DL5NAM

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... believe me, FRS will not smashup if  any not buy  V2.0 :-)
(Edited)
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NM1W

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Michael - I'm looking for a fixed V1.0, which some think will b V2.0.. I have my doubts.  I dont care about remote operation, I want working V1 features... Give me stable software, a working dax, and working noise filters.
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David Livingston

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Amen... Also fix the D-Star dongle and USB Port issues.
(Edited)
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KD7CAO

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All of these comments about making it perfect and bug free are ridiculous. When in the history of any software for any kind of platform been 100% bug free? I would rather have buggy software than no software. Just release the v2 and let the community start identifying the problems.
(Edited)
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Ria - N2RJ, Elmer

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 Just release the v2 and let the community start identifying the problems.

That's not really the community's job. The alpha team are the ones identifying the issues, in a manner that doesn't seem like needless complaining and with a manageable group that won't clog up the tech support lines, nor create a PR disaster for Flex. Can you imagine the ads from competitors? I cringe at that thought. Icom is already claiming that they are "first" with SDR technology but they word it in such a way that it's sorta true - that they are the first major manufacturer with SDR technology. Imagine if 2.0 SmartLink crashes everyone's radio, what will they say? What will the potential user base say? 
With regard to 2.0, I suspect that at this point, the software could be released any day now. It's not yet the end of June. Give them some time.

Ria
(Edited)
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KD7CAO

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With all due respect, I have given them enough dang time. I paid for the software two years ago and the hardware with the promise I would have the updated software within six months. We even amended our purchase of hardware to include the Maestro. Perhaps, it may seem foolish to you and others that we purchased something that did not exist. However, working with grants we often have to think way outside the box to get a result since it is a multi-year process.
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NM1W

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Ria - "Thats not the communities job" -- some of such sure feel like we are pre-alpha testing given the rig crashes and dax corruption in V1.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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There are "bugs" and there are "BUGS."  The little ones are annoying.  
The larger ones can cause a major foul-up.

I am sure that if it was released with BUGS simply to meet an arbitrary deadline that the resulting furor would be heard coast to coast without benefit of radio or internet.

The alpha team is at work making sure that there are no large BUGS.  
But even after that there are sure to remain a few small bugs and desired performance enhancements to deal with..  

So there will be plenty for the general Flex Community to encounter once the heavy lifting is finished and the software is released.

Ken - NM9P
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David Livingston

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I could care less about a new look and new features.  Please fix all the OLD PROBLEMS....
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Steve W6SDM

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It's not a matter of releasing it 100% bug free.  That's impossible.  It's a matter of releasing it when it's ready to be released.   The Alpha community is the group that tests the initial releases.  These folks have the technical knowledge to validate actual defects and document the exact conditions under which they occur.  You won't find that happening in the general Flex community.

The gestation period for a human being is nine months.  I wonder how many folks would rush that just to see the end result a little earlier.
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KD7CAO

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Well if the gestation period had anything to do with it we would have had two sets of kids by now and be well on the way to a third child. 
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AA0KM

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David Livingston

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Just a little late on release...
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George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

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Of course you're still running 1.4 and nothing has been released since? Only the features on the roadmap are in your radio, right? Let's be fair, here.
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N5LB - Lionel

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I'm waiting, sort of like Christmas, it will get here eventually.  In the meantime my 6300 and latest SSDR does great.  

I don't have time to grumble with a zillion other things on the plate, I'd rather operate than grumble. 
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Steve W6SDM

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Sometimes the best things in life often take a while to come to fruition. One has to be willing to pass up immediate gratification for a solution that provides a long-term gain.  We may not get what we want as soon as we would like it, but in the long run, we get something better because we had the patience to wait.

I am sure Flex isn't holding up the release of V2 just to tease their customer base.  It's to their advantage to release it as soon as it's ready to be released.  I, for one, can wait for a good, solid release.  In the meantime, I will be making contacts with some of the most advanced hardware and software available to amateur radio.
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David Livingston

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Since the new radios are to be released with V2.xxx they really need to have it right. If they don't ... They will have real issues with all Flex customers. Old and New...!!!
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Ken Hansen

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The new models ship in September, this is June.

Just sayin'
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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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Anticipation is kind of fun.

Some of the posts in this thread are exactly why we may never get another road map.

Some read like a fantasy. Really don't think any individuals were given a personal private commitment for version 2.0

Some obviously have not taken time to read the FAQs or recent official responses in threads.

Selfishly I'd an ETA would help me schedule personal travel to help a Flex-6300/Maestro owner on a remote island, and to update my remotely located system.

But that can hold until the upgrades are ready.

Still one feels a bit like a kid in the run up to a birthday ... your mind is all on the anticipation.

Waiting with all of you.

73

Steve
K9ZW
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KD7CAO

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"Some read like a fantasy. Really don't think any individuals were given a personal private commitment for version 2.0 "

Well here is my proof of purchase. I have E-Mail chains to back up my conversations as well.

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Steve K9ZW, Elmer

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I should have said commitment by a certain date.
I have also have a commitment for version 2.x since 2013, but it is right on my radio:


As Limited Edition radios included the upgrade. Commitment

But not for a specific firm date.

73

Steve
K9ZW
(Edited)
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Larry - WA7LZO

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It seems to me this thread has reached the end of its useful life. Flex is working hard to get V2.0 released, with as few bugs as is possible. It will be released when it's ready. Can we now stop beating this dead horse, and put this subject to rest?
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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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Official Response
A status report on 2.0 will be forthcoming.  Please note that for several years now, we only release software when we believe it has achieved a quality level that meets our requirements, not based on a specific date.  Any date that is given associated with a future software or product release is always tentative, a best guess estimate on our part.  It is not nor will it ever be a promise.  We cannot know what we do not know and that doesn't change until we start writing and testing the code.  This is why we never promise a ship date.

We appreciate everyone's comments and have taken them into consideration.  Thank you.

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