Broadband RFI Interference Destroy's my HF Radio operation Ready to Give Up Ham Radio !

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz-nUa9CypE

Any one ever see this on their Flex Radio ??

Broadband RFI Destroy's my HF operation Ready to Give Up Ham Radio !
No help from FCC, etc 

You think you got interference, watch this all bands from 160meters thru 20 meters wiped out ! Can be heard on my
Portable HF Rig  FT-817 with 12 inch whip within 2 city blocks of my QTH 

What do you think this is ? Watch the video !
1.)  Broadband HF Internet
2.)  Pulse Smart Battery Charger for a Boat/Car Battery 
3.)  TIVO Box or Joey Box  for Recording TV Programs from Cable 
4.)  Space Alien's
5.)  RF Source mixed/modulated with 40 KHz Signal in Harmonics Square Wave Jammer ( Bi-Phase Mixer )
6.)  When all else fails - Blame the Cable Company 
7. Cool or Neat Stuff
8.) Call the FCC 
9.) Guess Again  

Turned off all my power at my QTH, still hear it loud !

Even wipes out my 2 meter radio !
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mikeatthebeach .

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Posted 3 years ago

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Jim Gilliam

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 Many remote SDR receivers around to listen to and you can still transmit. I have the same problem and still enjoy ham radio.


Jim, K6QE

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Mack McCormick, Elmer

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Jim,

Have you contacted the power company? Have you tried to do any direction finding with a small hand held yagi?

Your best bet is to try and isolate the source and then find the responsible party who can help.

That's about as bad as I've ever seen RFI.

Mack
W4AX
ALpha Tester
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mikeatthebeach .

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The Tones indicate it is not the Power Company
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Felice, IZ8FFA

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Hi Mike, I'm sorry for your problem but is possible to reduce the noise with some HM noise reduction as XPhase 2. Some friends have solved with this. Tell me for the contact. Best regards.
Felice, IZ8FFA
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Giulio

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I use xphase2, and I have solved almost all my big problems due to qrm! Ciao! Giulio IZ3EAW
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David Warnberg

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Anyone close have solar panels on their roof???  Does it go away at night?

David
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mikeatthebeach .

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No Solar Panels, there 24Hours a day !
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David Warnberg

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Any weather stations around?  Radar possibly....  Heard from 2 blocks away?
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Steve W6SDM

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Wow!  That reminds me of my radio intercept days when the Russians would turn on their over the horizon radar.

I watched your YouTube video and you seem to have isolated the problem to be coincident with your neighbor having Internet service installed by Spectrum Communications.  Have you asked the neighbor to power down the equipment and see if that makes a difference?

If it does, I would be on the phone to Spectrum and let them know they're causing interference.  FCC rules require THEM to correct the problem.

Are you seeing a problem with broadcast television or AM/FM radio?  That would mean that you're not the only victim and the FCC would be interested.

If you can't get a decent response out of the FCC, call your congressman.  Seriously, the do have some influence over federal agencies.

Good luck, and I hope you're able to get this solved.

73,

Steve
W6SDM
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Walt

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Watched the video and it sounded like the question of "where did this come from?" was already answered - it started when someone had a company (I think I even heard the name - Spectrum Communications?) install a wireless internet into a home nearby.

So for me, it sounds like a call to the company's engineering department to report that their equipment is exceeded the Part 15 rules and ask if one of their techs or engineers could stop by your house and see what is going on - although I did not see the display of signal level in dbm on the side of the spectrum display so maybe the signal is not exceeding Part 15 - but the ARRL has some nice books that talk about all this and gives suggestions to how to approach the problem.

Never know - maybe the tech forgot to wire up a grounding lead.

Good luck, mate - that is really some bad interference.
and I thought I had it tough with the pot grow-lights that some neighbors use around me.
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Ken - NM9P

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Wow!  That is really nasty!  
I would suspect one of the following:

1) Spectrum may have a bad or missing shield on the pole-end connector of the line feeding the neighbor's house....effectively turning the entire feedline into an antenna broadcasting the entire Cable bandwidth.  (If this is true, I would bet that your neighbor is getting pretty lousy internet service.  or may be subject to interference from your transmitter.)

2) If you have an OTA TV antenna and can demonstrate that their signal is wiping our your TV reception, you may get more traction from the FCC, especially if you also contact the TV station that is being blocked.  They have more teeth....

3) The interface box on the pole may have bad connections with the main hardline feed, if that is being used.  or the Fiber-optic converter that translates the feed to your neighbor's drop may have some serious defects.  in that case, your neighbor and possibly others in the neighborhood may be getting poor service, in addition to causing you a lot of grief.

4)  Your neighbor's equipment may be installed incorrectly, causing leakage to go back onto the main feed to the pole.

When I was an Intern in Corpus Christi, TX back in the mid-80's, I lived in a small apartment complex with four 2-story buildings housing about ten small apartments on each floor.  
Those were the days of Cable TV piracy.  And also the days then all TV's had built-in rabbit ears.  

Someone either had tapped into a cable feed on the roof with very poor connectors, or a neighbor connected his cable 75/300 Ohm balun to the screw terminals of his TV while leaving the rabbit ears still connected.  But whatever the case, I was able to adjust the monopole antenna on my cheap 12-inch B&W TV just right and pick up a good number of cable stations as though they were broadcast TV. It also wiped out my 2-meter rig on several frequencies, especially 145.25 MHz! (analog cable channel 18 at the time).

Poor connectors made by untrained do-it-yourself-ers, or paid technicians who are in a hurry, cause a great deal of interference for hams and others, who then must take the time to cajole the FCC and Cable companies to do their jobs.

Ken - NM9P
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James Del Principe

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Mike, there's lots of good advice here. If Spectrum does not cooperate, there is always the public utilities commission....   Let us know the results.     73, Jim
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Stanley Korzep

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Mike:  I suggest that you send this info to ARRL, attention Ed Hare..  Ed Hare, W1RFI, is the acknowledged expert in this field, and I believe that he will be very helpful and he will also be interested in the cause.  Good luck.  Stan W8NNX.
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Ross - K9COX

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I have Spectrum (new name for Charter cable) and have no issues. Something is definitely wrong and I would think that Spectrum will work with you. It will be frustrating to actually talk with someone that understands your problem. Keep trying, the first people you talk will just be reading from a script on a screen. Ask for a supervisor.
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WA2SQQ

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Your position needs to be that it is causing interference to a licensed radio service. I'd also reach out to the ARRL for guidance.
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Jerry WA9UKB

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I can fully understand, I have had noise issues since 2001 at my location with no resolution, power line noise sometimes reaches 30 over nine due to loose hardware and ground on pole behind my house, have in the past contacted Duke energy, ARRL and FCC, also sent info to utility commission. Duke Energy would always come out after a rain and claim no issues.
So after 2011 I gave up, have bought an JPS ANC4 MFJ 2026, And a DX Engineering NCC-1 with 2 pixel loops so I no where this guy is coming from. Being retired on a fixed income It would be hard to move , and have a neighbor with a defective plasma tv , and to top it of a defective fence charger two blocks away, I'm contemplating selling everything also and might keep something portable when away. Been licensed since 1966.
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Norm - W7CK

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It sounds like you've narrowed it down to possibly being your neighbors broadband Internet.  Maybe ask them to power it off for a few moments while you verify that it is in fact the culprit.   If it proves positive, then you can call the company and explain what is going on.
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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That is always a helpful step to take to rule out interference being generated inside the house and re-radiated along the coax.  But if the problem is a bad connection at the pole, it will still radiate all over the place from the pole.  

The best option is to try to talk with the right person at the cable company, which is often very difficult.  But if you get the correct person, they will love the challenge, because it is such a change from the usual grind of installing equipment and keeping customers happy....  
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Mark - NU8Z

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Just some thoughts on your problem.

I agree with some others that the most likely culprit is a poor installation of the cable system.  

Another possibility is that they are using one of those devices that provides complete household coverage by feeding the internet signal into house wiring. Kind of like an in-house BPL.  Something to ask about. 


One more possibility, did anyone install an alarm system? I once solved a case in a follow hams neighborhood  where the audio sounded very similar to what I heard in the recording (with tones) you provided. In that case it turned out to be an ADP alarm system. I never had a chance to view it on a panadaptor. Some cable company provide security systems. What services did the neighbor.  

Good luck
Mark NU8Z  
 
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K7FU

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I've been in Cable TV for over 40 years. that should not be happening. if you have a 2 meter rig, check around 145.25 to see if you hear an interfering signal. Although most cable company's have switched to digital channels. Call Charter and ask to speak to an engineer, and let them know you are a licensed ham radio operator, and suspect they have a cracked sheath on the pole or pedestal that connects your neighbor, and it is causing harmful interference to your fcc licensed station. They have crews that inspect and repair these kinds of issues. My guess is that they can fix that quite easily and in no time at all. I'm sure that when you transmit your rf will get into their cable and cause all kinds of havoc with their internet as most of the traffic from the cable modems travel back to the central office / headend on the lower hf spectrum 3 to 30 Mhz.
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Steve

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Mike, what city do you live in?
Steve WS5W
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mikeatthebeach .

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Torrance. California
Southern California
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mikeatthebeach .

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Seems a lot of energy close to 8MHz with freq's in 78KHz steps like a DC-DC 
switcher combined with a 38KHz Horizontal Sweep offsets 
~ 7.040MHz is super strong since it's the nearest Amateur Band to 8MHz
but sure is heard from 160meters thru 20meters from a far distance from the 
source of the RFI

Just an observation from the Spectrum Scope & WaterFall on the Flex

Nasty RFI on Amateur Bands these days 

Be great if Flex would incorporate a Noise Nuller ability to Null Non-Fast Impulse 
interference like such as on the ANAN200D does with Dual Slice Receivers 
with Amplitude & Phase Adjust in some future version of SSDR

Would Need a Noise Sense Antenna and a Flex6700 ( 2 slices) to do it along 
with Phase/Amplitude adjust in Flex6700 to Null out interference !
(Edited)
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Jerry WA9UKB

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Using a JPS ANC4 or a MFJ 1026 or an DX Engineering NCC-1 you can achieve a simular mulling affect as dual receiver.

I have all three. For the money the MFJ 1026 works great.
I use the DX Engineering NCC-1 with Two Pixel Loops to also achieve the same affect.
I'm using a MFJ 1026 with a good outside antenna for noise pickup power line and plasma tv , I will completely null out interference in one direction, if I have other noise in different directions at the same time, I just shut everything down and leave the room.
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Gastonet

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Hi Jerry, I don't want to distort the topic, but I'll appreciate if you can explain how do you connect the NCC-1 to the Flex.
Thanks a lot.
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Bob - W7KWS -

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Mike,

I had nearly the same type of RFI. In my case it was generated in a newly installed, variable speed heat pump. A variable speed air conditioner would likely do the same thing.

This RFI is generated in the inverting power supply and then conducted by its connecting wires and radiated from there. My first attempt at reducing this RFI was to add a line filter to the 240 Volt supply wiring. This had no measurable effect.

I finally reduced my RFI to undetectable levels by twisting the wires and installing several type #31 snap-on ferrites over the wire-bundle between the inverting power supply (called the drive) and the variable speed motor in the outdoor unit. Search 2016 QSTs for an article on this. I think it was the August issue but I'm not sure. Be carefull not to void your Warranty. Fortunately Trane authorized my dealer, Advanced Heating & Cooling in Bremerton, WA, to do the work for me. I supplied the ferrites which cost me $60 at Mouser.

These air conditioning/heating units appear to be exempt from FCC part 15 rules. Fortunately it was my heat pump so I had access to it. Had it been a neighbors unit, I'm confident that access would have been impossible.

Good luck & 73,

Bob
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Rhett Aultman

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I can confirm that it is the August 2016 QST.  The article is "A Tale of Two Air Conditioners" by Robert C. Lee, W0GXA, and appears on page 30.
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Bob - W7KWS -

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(Edited)
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mikeatthebeach .

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Well, it's been really Cold here this January maybe it will go away when the temperature rises !

This interference showed up at night time when we got into mid 30s deg F temperature's outside !

Have had no interference like this when temperatures got warmer near 60 deg's F outside in spring, summer and fall season's.

In the video on youtube, next to the carrier, appear a dash signal on the waterfall offset to
the carrier that varies in time, appears and changes in its period to on & off maybe a temperature or speed controller.

Did it look like the same spectrum/waterfall with your situation being maximum near 8MHz but spread across a wide spectrum and appearing to be worst near the 40meters but falling into adjacent Amateur Bands, like 80 meter & 20 meters bands 

You may be onto something here with cold temperature's versus interference !

73 Mike
(Edited)
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Bob - W7KWS -

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Mike,

My RFI looked just like yours but started around 160 meters & began to diminish between 40 & 20.
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Rhett Aultman

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@Bob W7KWS,

I am having a continuously-variable heat pump installed in my house this Tuesday!  Can you elaborate on which wires should be twisted and how, and how many ferrites you added and where?  I need to be able to offer guidance to my heat pump installer.
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mikeatthebeach .

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Pictures would be nice 
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Bob - W7KWS -

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I twisted & installed ferrites on every cable Run in sight but I'm thinking the harness between the inverting power supply to the variable speed motor contributed the bulk of the RFI.

Be careful with the data communication line to the indoor unit & the thermostat. I may have caused data errors on mine so I have removed the ferrites on that line without any RFI increase.
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Bob - W7KWS -

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Sorry, the light in the unit was so low the two pictures I took didn't show anything useful. The unit is now closed up & I don't want to void my extended warranty by opening it up.

Look at that QST article. It will be more helpful than looking at my installation.

I installed around forty two inch long type #31 ferrites but far fewer would probably have been adequate. I suspect that twisting the wire bundles did a great deal of the RFI suppression. These are snap-on and have a 1/2 inch ID for passing RG8 coax. I can't remember the part number but you can search www.mouser.com, that's where I got them.
(Edited)
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Aiden 29 division

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Here in Ireland there is severe noise on 11m and across hf after fibre optic broadband has been installed in my area,prob is starting to spread all over Ireland as this broadband spreads, see this video on youtube ( fibre optic install does not cause interference??) bad thing is I cant get anything done about this.
(Edited)
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Rhett Aultman

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I was able to show my heat pump installer the QST article, which was short and concise, and he took a copy of it with him during the installation.  He did the best he could to identify the wire leads indicated in the article, and....he found both sets to already be wound around ferrite toroids.  With a little luck, there won't be any problem from my new heat pump!