Welcome to the new FlexRadio Community! Please review the new Community Rules and other important new Community information on the Message Board.
If you are having a problem, please refer to the product documentation or check the Help Center for known solutions.
Need technical support from FlexRadio? It's as simple as Creating a HelpDesk ticket.

ATU high SWR software bug

13

Comments

  • Mark NS9N
    Mark NS9N Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Neil, right question. And if this was an issue how could you ever use your station. Any time you tuned your radio it would trip your internet - remote or not? As others have stated, Flex is an outstanding remote radio but you still need to do your diligence. I use a pi to switch my antennas, radio, and power supply mains. This link is made to the outside world via VPN. If anything interrupts the VPN signal, the pi shuts down all the relays and such protests everything. It does not matter who’s radio you are using. Faults will happen and as the operator you are responsible for ensuring safety backups are in place to shut down the station.
  • Ken AG2K
    Ken AG2K Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Neil in my case the high SWR (RF) as a result of the defective ATU software got into the network switch and router and also caused it to lock up and not pass any traffic. We were able to reproduce the problem any time we try to use the ATU. We allowed the ATU to finish it cycle then pressed the tune button. We saw the high SWR and when we tried to repress the tune button it would not respond because we no longer had network access. When we tested onsite and this happened we manually turned off the power supply which shutdown the Flex and the network connection came back. Restarting the power supply and the Flex and we once again had control. In addition we had the TOT set to 90 secs. on the radio but it did not seem to work and it is unknown if it is even active during the tune function. In addition we also had an "IP switch" installed. That unit should have shut down the power to the radio in the event of lose of network/internet access. It also failed when RF got into it. None of this occurred when we used a manual external tuner.
    This is all just a brief overview of what happened. We did extensive additional testing and documentation on the incident.
    None of this is meant to "beat up" on Flex. They make a great and fun product and I look forward to making it better. It is also not about the "rank and file" techs or employees who all are dedicated and helpful people. This is about a company policy established at the top. The fact that I've been waiting close to 6 months for a hot fix and the Flex policy is to not comment on fixes or updates is disturbing and potentially dangerous to users who think they can safely do remote operations without the addition of much external protections. I've offered to do Beta testing on this issue a number of times and never got a response either way. I also requested to talk to Gerald and explain my concerns. I was told almost 5 months ago he would contact me. When I asked for a status on that call I was told his schedule is busy and it is hard to find a time to do it. I would think if they were concerned somehow they would find a time to find out more about the situation. I'll leave it to others to interpret what all this means. My position has always been that Flex has an obligation to address defects in its software especially those that were introduced in newer released versions or those that are potentially dangerous. They need to establish a well defined, transparent customer friendly policy on hot fixes. Waiting to release a version with new features and not addressing on going defects first is not a good customer friendly policy.
    Ken
  • Bill -VA3WTB
    Bill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Ken, it is too bad Gerald did not get back to you. I think he should have. If you read my early post I mentioned that Flex has in the past correct things that are considered critical just days after a new release. I also think that correcting the ATU problem must effect things in the radio that makes it a difficult task, witch means lots of work and taking a while to test all the little areas the ATU touches. I think this is why a hot fix did not happen. Understanding your frustration, it would have been great for Gerald to explain the complications and background for what your asking.

    I could be way off on my view of the ATU fix, But seeing you drop through the cracks the way you are is not historically how Gerald does business.

    The policy to not give information on any updates on Fixes, or features is not there to slight the customer, there are some very good reasons for it. Flex learned the hard way that it is not a good idea to share this info to the public.

    I am not here to defend Flex, I feel you have been avoided. I think though some understanding is needed.
  • Steve Killeen
    Steve Killeen Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    All this discussion about the ATU defect with SmartSDR has me worried and wondering what should I install as far as sotware version when my 6600 arrives next week :(

    All this talk about software not being part of the hardware warranty makes me wonder then why do they call Software Defined Radio ? Without the software there's no radio, right ? So the way I see it is that the software is an integral part of the hardware and defects like the ATU renders the unit out of spec ! 

    I hope my Hexbeam and Enfed antenna will tune just fine without the ATU and I can use version 3.1.xx

    There should be a notice on their website mentionning this bug.
  • Bill -VA3WTB
    Bill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Steve, if you can't get on the air without the ATU then you should revert back to v2. but I can't remember what update you need to find to clear it up.
    I think 2.5.1 should be ok.
  • Steve Killeen
    Steve Killeen Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Ok thanks Bill.
  • Erika - KØDD
    Erika - KØDD Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Has anybody actually read the details about what happens when moving forward to v3 from v2, and the very serious sounding precautions needed to be taken to protect your configuration (profiles etc) and actually protect your radio?  If you decide to roll between v2 and v3.

    There's a very serious change that was taken to make the move to  Apree' v2.4.9  they made some big changes apparently in the way things work.  Not to mention they talk about DAX versions "Were Improved" and you should keep the new DAX on your machine if you do rollbacks.

    I'm starting to wonder if they have the programming staff left on board to even repair the damage created by these "UPDATES and major changes".  Might take a HUGE rewrite of the SSDR O/S. 

    If it was a repair or hot fix, they would have had this done in NOVEMBER after a mass very loud group started commenting that their tuners started acting weird. 

    The Blue Pill Clan, did not help things one bit with their my tuner works just fine attitude, clouding the issue.   My tuner takes 6 button pushes to tune up a 1.5:1...  NO MATTER what the result I'll always hit a carrier to see if it really tuned the thing.  Sometimes it says success and is full reflected.  another time it goes right to 1:1.  I know this tuner has the ability to really work good.  I've seen it work.  But its too bad its not repeatable.  If they do not have the necessary manpower just say so.  Then the whole crowd can make the serious effort to rollback to 2.4.9 and then whine about the money if they spent it...  sigh
  • Steve Killeen
    Steve Killeen Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Can anyone else confirm what version is SAFE to install in order to have zero impact on ATU. Is it 2.5.1 like Bill mentions ? Thanks
  • Erika - KØDD
    Erika - KØDD Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    NO ITS 2.4.9
  • Steve Killeen
    Steve Killeen Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    So how do I install and older version like 2.5.1 and use the improved DAX in recent version ? Flex Radio is making me really confused now ...
  • Erika - KØDD
    Erika - KØDD Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Best read up the documents on rolling back the radios, I read them this morning.  It explains everything step by step.  Just search for it on the flex site
  • Neil D Friedman N3DF
    Neil D Friedman N3DF Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    1.  If those not experiencing the problem are discouraged to the point of not reporting same, then it appears to the casual reader that all are experiencing the problem, which is far from accurate.

    2.  It is not clear to me if those unable to quickly achieve a reasonable SWR with the ATU are starting with antennas with moderate SWRs of, say, 2.5:1 or 3:1, or high SWRs of, say, 7:1 or 10:1.  
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited February 2020
    @Steve - it is not going to damage the hardware using the ATU with the issue where it cannot find a match on the first try.

    How you roll back to SmartSDR v2.4.9 is relatively straightforward.  I'll outline the process.
    • Install SmartSDR v2.4.9 on your PC BEFORE installing SmartSDR v3 or SmartSDR v2.5 and greater.  If you have created any profiles using v2.4.9 or BELOW and have NOT installed any version of SmartSDR GREATER than v2.4.9, Export your profiles and save them in a location where you know it is a v2.4.9 profile.
    • Install SmartSDR v3 or SmartSDR v2.5 and greater on your PC, this will install the new DAX drivers.
    • Do NOT uninstall any version of SmartSDR.
    • Start SmartSDR v2.4.9 and allow it to do a firmware DOWNGRADE
    • Shut down your radio and then do this reset procedure:

    Perform a cold boot and Factory Reset of your radio

    • Power off the radio by pressing and releasing the power button. Allow it to completely power down before continuing. If pressing and releasing the power button does not work, press and hold the power button until it shuts down.
    • Once the radio is powered off, wait for 2 minutes to allow for all processors to properly shut down.
    • Remove the power cable from the radio for at least 30 seconds and then reconnect it.  It is also important to remove the power cable from the radio and not just turn off the power supply. 

    For FLEX-6700 and FLEX-6500:

    • Press and hold the OK button while pressing and releasing the Power button.
    • Release the OK button once the power LED turns white and allow the radio to continue booting normally.

    For FLEX-6300, FLEX-6400(M) and FLEX-6600(M):

    • Press and hold the Power button for approximately 5 seconds until the power button or power LED turns white. Release the power button and allow the radio to continue booting normally.
    • Now restart SmartSDR v2.4.9 and connect to your radio
    At this point you are running SmartSDR v2.4.9, you have the latest DAX driver and your radio's database has been reset and is fully compatible with SmartSDR v2.4.9

    CAUTION: If you run a version of SmartSDR greater than v2.4.9 and upgrade your radio firmware, then you will have to repeat the process at the 4th bullet down.
  • Ken AG2K
    Ken AG2K Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Bill, I'm not feeling frustration as much as disappointment. I didn't expect this lack of support from Flex. An American run company and American built hardware and software. The software shouldn't be an after thought. In the case of a SDR system the S (software) is a significant part of the over all product. 
  • Bill -VA3WTB
    Bill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2020
    There simply is no reasons to think Flex has not the staff to fix this. Pure speculation.
  • Steve Killeen
    Steve Killeen Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Tim, thanks for the procedure. What is " CAUTION: If you run a version of SmartSDR greater than v2.4.9 and upgrade your radio firmware, then you will have to repeat the process at the 4th bullet down." Looking for the 4th bullet . Also, can I install V3 and try the radio and ATU and if I encounter problems with the ATU then and only then do the procedure you mention to go to 2.4.9 ? Thanks
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited February 2020
    @Steve from the top of the procedure, count down to the 4th bullet: Start SmartSDR v2.4.9 and allow it to do a firmware DOWNGRADE

    Also, can I install V3 and try the radio and ATU and if I encounter problems with the ATU then and only then do the procedure you mention to go to 2.4.9 ?

    Yes
  • Steve Killeen
    Steve Killeen Member ✭✭
    edited February 2020
    Much appreciated.
  • Rick  WN2C
    Rick WN2C Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    So has this issue been fixed? I seem to have a problem with the tuner since I loaded 2.61. Didn't have this issue with 2.49.
  • Arvind Mallya
    Arvind Mallya Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    I just upgraded to 2.6.1 and it has the same problem, it takes a few tries to tune. I measured the SWR using a Bird meter of the feed line to antenna, and it is under 3. I also find another strange problem, the MOX comes on randomly not frequently but it does and I have to hit PTT to stop.
  • Arvind Mallya
    Arvind Mallya Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    I just upgraded to 2.6.1 and I have the same issue with ATU not tuning even though the measured SWR is under 3. For some reason the MOX seems to come on occasionaly and I have to hit The PTT to stop.
  • WA2SQQ
    WA2SQQ Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Especially during this difficult situation we are all in, no one wants to be a “PITA” to FRS. It would seem that changes were made, and no explanation was offered why they can’t undo those changes. For me, it’s what’s not being said that continues to fuel this issue.
  • OH6OKSA
    OH6OKSA Member
    edited May 2020
    So this issue is still existing after 5 months?...thinking to go with 6600, but this ATU issue can be the deal braker for me...
  • Ken AG2K
    Ken AG2K Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    It has been longer then that. The last version that the ATU worked with is version 2.4.9. They are great radios and I really enjoy it. If you buy one with an ATU you should understand that unless you use 2.4.9 the ATU will not work properly. That means you can not make use of ver 3.x which has the multi flex features among other needed and desired features. What is the most disappointing is that Flex refuses to comment on any aspects of their software fixes for defects. I think that is a horrible customer support policy especially for a US company that sells a product so dependant on software. SDR= SOFTWARE Defined Radio If you decide to purchase just understand that Flex's policy is they do not (will not) comment on updating or repairing the software that makes the radio operate properly. I'm asked all the time if I would purchase again and my answer before the release last week is YES with all of the above caveats. However after last weeks release came out without a fix for the ATU defect I would be much more cautious about purchasing, especially after I was assured back in September this defect was a priority and it would be included in the next release. Flex needs to change their policy and be more transparent when it comes to customer communications involving fixing software defects/bugs. Good luck you have a tough decision. Ken
  • Larry _ NY8T
    Larry _ NY8T Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    The internal tuner works, I use it every day with the latest version of SmartSDR you just have to hit the ATU button a few times before it succeeds. Also the ATU memory feature works so once your tune succeeds the tune for that band segment will be saved. Its a temporary inconvenience and does not stop me from using my 6700 or 6500 in any way.

    image
  • Chris DL5NAM
    Chris DL5NAM Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Do you use your Expert PA and the Flexradio tuner at same time ?

    Chris
  • Erika - KØDD
    Erika - KØDD Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Yes it "Does work" I find mine far more persnickety than what you describe.  Even with a 2:1 antenna situation it will take pushing the tune button endlessly on occasion and NEVER SEEM to find itself an answer, However Other times IT WILL almost instantly within a click or two go to 1.1:1....  There are however times the tuner comes up with success, and then on a test tune button press shows 201:1 SWR, or 6:1 or 8:1...  In all cases it pegs out the 3:1 max swr indicator on SSDR, I'm using the DDUTIL power and swr meter that will read digitally all the way up to the 201:1 which is indispensable for tuning on a manual balance feed antenna....  Fortunately once you get the first tune figured out the scales on the knobs help get you right in there for a second matching.  Its the non-repeatability of the tuner that really bothers me.  I'll get a happy tune say on 10 meters down from 2:3:1 to 1.7:1 with the tuner and it is repeatable for a half dozen pushes but I KNOW it WILL tune to 1.2.... 
  • Larry _ NY8T
    Larry _ NY8T Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Chris, no the 1k-fa was not turned on when the image was taken and never used at the same time with the internal ATU.
  • OH6OKSA
    OH6OKSA Member
    edited May 2020
    I have never had to push rigs tune button twice and I dont like the idea of runing relays extra times to get tuned. Also there was some issue if  you go just little bit side from frequency resulting HSWR warning...so how many tune spots I need to have one band without needing to push the tune again...my antennas are always SWR under 2.0 at workable band width. But I still like to get tuned so I am not loading the transmitter. I have using SDR receivers since day one and love them...
  • Ken AG2K
    Ken AG2K Member ✭✭
    edited May 2020
    Larry, That's the problem you should not have to hit it numerous times. Flex has confirmed it is a defect/bug. My testing also showed even though it says it worked checking it with another SWR bridge showed it was unacceptably high. It is unknown if all that extra "button pushing" is good for the ATU. Again the lack of info from Flex as to whether it is good for the hardware to keep trying to tune and if it is causing any premature "wear and tear". The concern I am starting to have is since Flex is taking so long to fix the ATU defect does that mean it is not software but instead might it be a hardware problem. Something that is going to require a visit back to the shop for new hardware and/or modification? That is speculation but with the lack of transparency from Flex as to this situation it is hard to tell. Certainly for anyone who is looking to purchase a radio with ATU they should be cautious.
    Again I want to stress I think Flex is a good US company with a great radio along with supportive and dedicated people. None of this criticism is personal to those people. It is a Management decision on policy and how the company interacts with their customers. I would suggest all owners read the warranty in reference to software. 
    Would I buy another FlexRadio..... Probably, possibly, maybe, depends! :)

    Ken

Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.