Tonight is the ARRL Frequency Measuring Test (FMT) where you can test your skills, and the capabilities of your radio, measuring an on-air signal with the best accuracy you can muster:
http://www.arrl.org/frequency-measuring-test
The FLEX-6000 radios are well suited to perform in the challenge, but there's some important information you should know before having a go at it. I apologize in advance that this will not be a complete "how to" guide and I hope that some others may be able to answer questions on what I've written as they arise. I've been meaning to post this for several weeks and just haven't had the time.
In a direct sampling radio like the FLEX-6000, there is an Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) or Numerically Controlled Oscillator (NCO) performing the tuning of receivers in the digital domain. In the FLEX-6000, there is a complex set of DDSs and mixers that control the final output frequency of the radio. We've not previously exposed how all this works in the radio and so the opaqueness of this part of the radio makes competing in the FMT hard. So this post will provide enough information to get a much more accurate measurement for those that are interested. The capabilities here were developed for a government customer of ours and have been shown to get frequency results within a few hundred microHertz (yes, microHertz). It is important to point out that doppler shift in the ionosphere and other considerations will affect your on-air accuracy, but the FLEX-6000 should get you closer that any other amateur radio I know of.
Note that for best results, you will need to have a FLEX-6500 or FLEX-6700 with either the on-board GPS option or a 10MHz reference that is derived from a GPS locked oscillator (or cesium, rubidium, hydrogen maser, etc). A FLEX-6300 will simply not have the same level of accuracy, but you can have a go after using the WWV calibration built into the radio. Incidentally, if you are using a FLEX-6500 or 6700 that is locked to a reference, ensure that you have your frequency offset setting set to ZERO.
THEORY
When a DDS is tuned, it is supplied with a frequency tuning word (FTW). The frequency tuning word is limited to a set number of bits and most of ours in the radio are 30-32 bits. Every frequency cannot be represented with 32 bits, of course, and the error in any given DDS can be calculated by taking the sampling radio divided by 2^<# of bits>. In our case, this would be 245,760,000 / 2^32 = 57.22mHz (millihertz). This means that the radio can be off as much as 57mHz at any time. Some changes were made a few months ago that limit this to +/- 28.61mHz (SmartSDR v1.10.9 and later). In addition, a new API command was added that will actually report the error for both the receiver and transmitter:
http://wiki.flexradio.com/index.php?title=TCP/IP_slice#GET_ERROR
So you can tune a receiver and then connect to the radio using the API and request the error. Then you can use available software to measure the audio frequency of a tone in your passband and make the adjustment provided by the get_error command. Details on using the API are beyond the scope of this quick posting so you'll have to look around to get that information. The short version is that you find your radio's IP address, use a telnet client to telnet to it and then issue the get_error command after you've tuned your slice receiver.
I hope this helps someone use the FLEX-6000 in the FMT and I'd be glad to answer questions as I have time. Again, our military customers use this to get within a couple hundred microHertz so you should be able to do very well in the FMT by applying this information.
http://www.arrl.org/frequency-measuring-test
The FLEX-6000 radios are well suited to perform in the challenge, but there's some important information you should know before having a go at it. I apologize in advance that this will not be a complete "how to" guide and I hope that some others may be able to answer questions on what I've written as they arise. I've been meaning to post this for several weeks and just haven't had the time.
In a direct sampling radio like the FLEX-6000, there is an Direct Digital Synthesizer (DDS) or Numerically Controlled Oscillator (NCO) performing the tuning of receivers in the digital domain. In the FLEX-6000, there is a complex set of DDSs and mixers that control the final output frequency of the radio. We've not previously exposed how all this works in the radio and so the opaqueness of this part of the radio makes competing in the FMT hard. So this post will provide enough information to get a much more accurate measurement for those that are interested. The capabilities here were developed for a government customer of ours and have been shown to get frequency results within a few hundred microHertz (yes, microHertz). It is important to point out that doppler shift in the ionosphere and other considerations will affect your on-air accuracy, but the FLEX-6000 should get you closer that any other amateur radio I know of.
Note that for best results, you will need to have a FLEX-6500 or FLEX-6700 with either the on-board GPS option or a 10MHz reference that is derived from a GPS locked oscillator (or cesium, rubidium, hydrogen maser, etc). A FLEX-6300 will simply not have the same level of accuracy, but you can have a go after using the WWV calibration built into the radio. Incidentally, if you are using a FLEX-6500 or 6700 that is locked to a reference, ensure that you have your frequency offset setting set to ZERO.
THEORY
When a DDS is tuned, it is supplied with a frequency tuning word (FTW). The frequency tuning word is limited to a set number of bits and most of ours in the radio are 30-32 bits. Every frequency cannot be represented with 32 bits, of course, and the error in any given DDS can be calculated by taking the sampling radio divided by 2^<# of bits>. In our case, this would be 245,760,000 / 2^32 = 57.22mHz (millihertz). This means that the radio can be off as much as 57mHz at any time. Some changes were made a few months ago that limit this to +/- 28.61mHz (SmartSDR v1.10.9 and later). In addition, a new API command was added that will actually report the error for both the receiver and transmitter:
http://wiki.flexradio.com/index.php?title=TCP/IP_slice#GET_ERROR
So you can tune a receiver and then connect to the radio using the API and request the error. Then you can use available software to measure the audio frequency of a tone in your passband and make the adjustment provided by the get_error command. Details on using the API are beyond the scope of this quick posting so you'll have to look around to get that information. The short version is that you find your radio's IP address, use a telnet client to telnet to it and then issue the get_error command after you've tuned your slice receiver.
I hope this helps someone use the FLEX-6000 in the FMT and I'd be glad to answer questions as I have time. Again, our military customers use this to get within a couple hundred microHertz so you should be able to do very well in the FMT by applying this information.
Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO
Posted 3 years ago
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
I can't even get to the ARRL site currently... anyone else having an issue or is it just me?
Thanks
Thanks
Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
Looks like arrl.org is down right now.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
Thanks I just got in... I have plenty of time does not start till 8:00 pm EDT or 00:00 UTC
Neal - K3NC, Elmer
Ria, thanks for posting isup.me You are a gift that just keeps giving!
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Hi Ria thanks for the link Does it do more than just ping the site?
roger
roger
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
I believe it uses servers in different part of the country (may be AWS, I'm not sure) and tries to curl the site. PING is unreliable as many sites block ICMP traffic for security reasons.
There area few many others
http://downdetector.com
http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/
http://currentlydown.com/
etc etc
Basically a lot of bored/creative programmers etc who like creating useful things for public consumption.
AND it's not limited to websites. There are toolbars, browser extensions, and even access via REST APIs.
Ever wondered what your favorite website is running? This is an oldie but goldie:
http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report
Since I run a large website as my day job I spend half my day looking for tools to make my life easier (or I write my own when I don't find them).
There are
http://downdetector.com
http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/
http://currentlydown.com/
etc etc
Basically a lot of bored/creative programmers etc who like creating useful things for public consumption.
AND it's not limited to websites. There are toolbars, browser extensions, and even access via REST APIs.
Ever wondered what your favorite website is running? This is an oldie but goldie:
http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report
Since I run a large website as my day job I spend half my day looking for tools to make my life easier (or I write my own when I don't find them).
(Edited)
So, since I am new to this and excited to give it a shot, what exactly am I listening for? is this a simple CW tone, a SSB transmission tone, a beacon, what?
Like just now there was some weird looking pulsing signal at about 14.097.900
Thanks
Like just now there was some weird looking pulsing signal at about 14.097.900
Thanks
(Edited)
Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO
ARRL is back up, but there is a call on each frequency in succession followed by a 2-minute CW tone. Then they switch frequencies. Details on the ARRL site since it's now back up.
Steve,
I am assuming that all 6700 will have the same offset when tuned to the same frequency. I tried to use TELNET to use the get_error command; but have been unsuccessful so far. This is my first time trying to use the API. Just out of curiosity, I used the following frequencies:
14.120 USB
7.063 USB
3.597 USB.
I used those as the base frequency and measured the frequency of the tone with a frequency counter locked to the GPS 10 MHz.
Chances are very good that others may have used the same frequencies. If you get a chance, could you please post the error for those frequencies if you have the time.
Thanks,
Tim K8XS
I am assuming that all 6700 will have the same offset when tuned to the same frequency. I tried to use TELNET to use the get_error command; but have been unsuccessful so far. This is my first time trying to use the API. Just out of curiosity, I used the following frequencies:
14.120 USB
7.063 USB
3.597 USB.
I used those as the base frequency and measured the frequency of the tone with a frequency counter locked to the GPS 10 MHz.
Chances are very good that others may have used the same frequencies. If you get a chance, could you please post the error for those frequencies if you have the time.
Thanks,
Tim K8XS
(Edited)
Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
You have to telnet to the command channel which is port tcp/4992
Tim,
I got that far. At the telnet prompt, I issue the command o 192.168.1.10 4992
(where 192.168.1.10 is the IP of my 6700) . This opens a connection with the 6700 and the responds with a boatload of status information. It appears that each item of status is separated by a LF character and not a CRLF because the data just scrolls across my telnet window and drops to the next line (without a return to column 1) for each new status item. After that and with the 6700 being tuned to the frequency of interest, I issue the command c21|slice get_error 0 CRLF to get the error for slice 0 and the terminal just hangs there. It appears that I get no response. At this point, I am stuck. Over.
I got that far. At the telnet prompt, I issue the command o 192.168.1.10 4992
(where 192.168.1.10 is the IP of my 6700) . This opens a connection with the 6700 and the responds with a boatload of status information. It appears that each item of status is separated by a LF character and not a CRLF because the data just scrolls across my telnet window and drops to the next line (without a return to column 1) for each new status item. After that and with the 6700 being tuned to the frequency of interest, I issue the command c21|slice get_error 0 CRLF to get the error for slice 0 and the terminal just hangs there. It appears that I get no response. At this point, I am stuck. Over.
Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO
What version of SmartSDR is in your radio? Also no one can provide you with the information because it will vary based on the path that you got to your current configuration.
I am running V 1.10.15.43 labeled as Beta 1.10.15. I just noticed that 1.10.16 is available.
Interesting that the value changes based on how you got there. I noticed something else that was interesting. I thought that even if I could not use get_error, I could measure the error. I used two different signal generators ( a Rhodes and Schwarz and a PTS) that were locked to the same GPS 10 MHz reference as the radio and frequency counter. I set the 6700 to a frequency that I used in the FMT. I then set a sig gen to a frequency 1kHz higher than the radio. That should get me a 1kHz tone when the radio is set to USB. I ran the test and I was getting what seemed to be reasonable results. I measured something like 18.6mHz on one frequency and 23.4 mHz on another , etc. The thing that seemed to give the values credibility was that I got the same answer regardless of the signal generator I used. Then for some reason, I resized the SmartSDR window. Well I was quite surprised to see that the value on the frequency counter changed. I had not changed the radio tuning or the sig gen setting but the 1kHz tone changed in value. Not by a lot. Maybe on the order of a couple of mHz or 10s of mHz. So, there must be something else going on that I do not understand.
Steve, thank you for your time.
Interesting that the value changes based on how you got there. I noticed something else that was interesting. I thought that even if I could not use get_error, I could measure the error. I used two different signal generators ( a Rhodes and Schwarz and a PTS) that were locked to the same GPS 10 MHz reference as the radio and frequency counter. I set the 6700 to a frequency that I used in the FMT. I then set a sig gen to a frequency 1kHz higher than the radio. That should get me a 1kHz tone when the radio is set to USB. I ran the test and I was getting what seemed to be reasonable results. I measured something like 18.6mHz on one frequency and 23.4 mHz on another , etc. The thing that seemed to give the values credibility was that I got the same answer regardless of the signal generator I used. Then for some reason, I resized the SmartSDR window. Well I was quite surprised to see that the value on the frequency counter changed. I had not changed the radio tuning or the sig gen setting but the 1kHz tone changed in value. Not by a lot. Maybe on the order of a couple of mHz or 10s of mHz. So, there must be something else going on that I do not understand.
Steve, thank you for your time.
(Edited)
Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO
Yes there's a whole set of sliding windows that set the frequency and the get_error checks all of these and reports the exact offset. And change in the panadapter or receiver may invalidate the data and you'll have to ask again. Did you get the get_error to work? I believe it's in everything after v1.10.9
Running 1.10.16. This is what I get
C:\> telnet
Welcome to Microsoft Telnet Client
Escape Character is 'CTRL+]'
Microsoft Telnet> o 192.168.1.10 4992
Connecting To 192.168.1.10...
V1.2.0.0
I get no response
C:\> telnet
Welcome to Microsoft Telnet Client
Escape Character is 'CTRL+]'
Microsoft Telnet> o 192.168.1.10 4992
Connecting To 192.168.1.10...
V1.2.0.0
HA07786D6
M10000001|Client connected from IP 192.168.1.11
SA07786D6|radio slices=7 panadapters=7 lineout_gain=66 lineout_mute=0 headphone_gain=47 headphone_mute=0 remote_on_enabled=0 pll_done=0 freq_error_ppb=0 cal_freq=10.000000 tnf_enabled=1 snap_tune_enabled=1 nickname=FLEX-6700 callsign=K8XS binaural_rx=0 full_duplex_enabled=0 band_persistence_enabled=1 rtty_mark_default=2125 enforce_private_ip_connections=1
SA07786D6|radio filter_sharpness VOICE level=3 auto_level=0
SA07786D6|radio filter_sharpness CW level=3 auto_level=0 SA07786D6|radio filter_sharpness DIGITAL level=3 auto_level=0 SA07786D6|radio static_net_params ip= gateway=nettmask= SA07786D6|interlock timeout=0 acc_txreq_enable=0 rca_txreq_enable=0 acc_txreq_polarity=0 rca_txreq_polarity=0 tx1_enabled=1 tx1_delay=0 tx2_enabled=1 tx2_delay=0 tx3_enabled=1 tx3_delay=0 acc_tx_enabled=0 acc_tx_delay=0 tx_delay=5 SA07786D6|client 0xA07786D6 connected c21|slice get_error 0I get no response
Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO
Can you download PuTTY and try using it? You should always get a response back -- if for no other reason that to tell you that your command was received and doesn't mean anything to the radio. I used this command on my mac to access the radio:
Here's my output:
Even the last command that is gibberish gets a response. If you get nothing back, there's a problem with what the radio is (isn't) seeing from your client. There's also a setting in PuTTY that allows you to specify how <LF> or <CR><LF> are handled that will make everything appear in a single line.
screen telnet 192.168.1.58 4992
Here's my output:
Trying 192.168.30.58...Connected to 192.168.1.58.
Escape character is '^]'.
V1.3.0.0
H86C07A9A
M10000001|Client connected from IP 192.168.1.67
S86C07A9A|radio slices=7 panadapters=7 lineout_gain=46 lineout_mute=0 headphone_gain=50 headphone_mute=0 remote_on_enabled=0 pll_done=0 freq_error_ppb=0 cal_freq=15.000000 tnf_enabled=1 snap_tune_enabled=1 nickname=N5AC_Dev callsign=N5AC binaural_rx=0 full_duplex_enabled=1 band_persistence_enabled=1 rtty_mark_default=2125 enforce_private_ip_connections=1
S86C07A9A|radio filter_sharpness VOICE level=2 auto_level=1
S86C07A9A|radio filter_sharpness CW level=2 auto_level=1
S86C07A9A|radio filter_sharpness DIGITAL level=3 auto_level=0
S86C07A9A|radio static_net_params ip= gateway= netmask=
S86C07A9A|interlock timeout=0 acc_txreq_enable=0 rca_txreq_enable=0 acc_txreq_polarity=0 rca_txreq_polarity=0 tx1_enabled=1 tx1_delay=0 tx2_enabled=0 tx2_delay=0 tx3_enabled=0 tx3_delay=0 acc_tx_enabled=0 acc_tx_delay=0 tx_delay=0
S86C07A9A|eq rx mode=1 63Hz=10 125Hz=10 250Hz=10 500Hz=10 1000Hz=10 2000Hz=10 4000Hz=10 8000Hz=10
S86C07A9A|eq rxsc mode=1 63Hz=0 125Hz=0 250Hz=0 500Hz=0 1000Hz=0 2000Hz=0 4000Hz=0 8000Hz=0
S86C07A9A|client 0x86C07A9A connected
c1|slice get_error 0
R1|0|+19.073483,+9.536743
c1|jkdhsf sdkhf ksldf
R1|50000015|
Even the last command that is gibberish gets a response. If you get nothing back, there's a problem with what the radio is (isn't) seeing from your client. There's also a setting in PuTTY that allows you to specify how <LF> or <CR><LF> are handled that will make everything appear in a single line.
Steve,
I used my MAC and it worked perfectly. Thank you very much.
73,
Tim K8XS
I used my MAC and it worked perfectly. Thank you very much.
73,
Tim K8XS
Also used PuTTY and it worked fine. There must be something I am not setting in the Microsoft version. Thanks Steve. Another satisfied customer!!
Thanks for the hint, Steve.
I had never thought about "puttying around" the 6500!
I tested a few simple commands with success.
I didn't realize exactly how easy it was to send TCP/IP commands via Telnet.
I have programmed information exchanges for the MIDI Control project that got stalled, but This has convinced me even more that all I need to do is learn enough to open up and read a serial port and a TCP port and I should be able to write a basic MIDI controller interface in C#. Perhaps a summer vacation project.....
I had never thought about "puttying around" the 6500!
I tested a few simple commands with success.
I didn't realize exactly how easy it was to send TCP/IP commands via Telnet.
I have programmed information exchanges for the MIDI Control project that got stalled, but This has convinced me even more that all I need to do is learn enough to open up and read a serial port and a TCP port and I should be able to write a basic MIDI controller interface in C#. Perhaps a summer vacation project.....
Steve,
I had some trouble with no response to c21|slice get_error 0 in telnet and PuTTY on
win7
Even after connecting to the radio on its local address and the correct port.
Just now tried PuTTY on win10 64bit.
Connected OK but no response on slice 0.
Though running on Slice A in one panadapter on the Maestro the initial screen reported 3 panadapters and 3 slices.
After bit of lateral thought I tried slices 1-4.
Got a response on slices 2 and 3 of R1|0| +0.000000, +8.010864
Slice A 1.8366 MHz running WSPR.
No response for slices 0, 1 or 4 (know that for the 6500 there is no 4)
However c21|slice list (not l) returns R21|0|0
So no response if the slice numbers are wrong.
My radio must be a bit confused!
Why are RX and TX different?
Is there a simple math way of mapping any decimal frequency to an integer binary FTW?
Andrew VK5CV
I had some trouble with no response to c21|slice get_error 0 in telnet and PuTTY on
win7
Even after connecting to the radio on its local address and the correct port.
Just now tried PuTTY on win10 64bit.
Connected OK but no response on slice 0.
Though running on Slice A in one panadapter on the Maestro the initial screen reported 3 panadapters and 3 slices.
After bit of lateral thought I tried slices 1-4.
Got a response on slices 2 and 3 of R1|0| +0.000000, +8.010864
Slice A 1.8366 MHz running WSPR.
No response for slices 0, 1 or 4 (know that for the 6500 there is no 4)
However c21|slice list (not l) returns R21|0|0
So no response if the slice numbers are wrong.
My radio must be a bit confused!
Why are RX and TX different?
Is there a simple math way of mapping any decimal frequency to an integer binary FTW?
Andrew VK5CV
(Edited)
Congratulations to the Flex community for a good showing, overall. Many who used 6500/6700 radios achieved < 1 Hz accuracy with many under 0.1 Hz. Results are available by Googling "ARRL FMT Results"
I wasn't able to make it. Was it possible to test 2 meters as well? My 6700 is WAY WAY off on 2 meters.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
The test was on 20, 40 and 80m only.
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
I used my 6300 and DM 780. Before the contest I tuned WWV on 2.5, 5.0, 10.0 and 15.0 and offset my USB tuning by 500 hz to watch the beat tone on DM 780. That worked pretty good but I found that the calibration setting required varied a great deal from band to band. Can you explain why that would be?
Below is the chart I used to set my calibration in the FLEX S/W before each part of the FMT. I got pretty good results, under 1 HZ on 40 and a little over 1 HZ on the other bands.
The ppb numbers for the WWV freqs are exact numbers I discovered for those freqs and the other numbers are interpreted.
Freq ppb
2.5 9000
3.8 6750 80 mtrs
5.0 4500
7.5 3400 40 mtrs
10.0 2300
12.5 1950
15.0 1600 20 mtrs
Below is the chart I used to set my calibration in the FLEX S/W before each part of the FMT. I got pretty good results, under 1 HZ on 40 and a little over 1 HZ on the other bands.
The ppb numbers for the WWV freqs are exact numbers I discovered for those freqs and the other numbers are interpreted.
Freq ppb
2.5 9000
3.8 6750 80 mtrs
5.0 4500
7.5 3400 40 mtrs
10.0 2300
12.5 1950
15.0 1600 20 mtrs
Steve - N5AC Can you answer my question above?
I submitted my readings for the latest ARRL FMT and the results they printed are impossible to be anywhere near correct. It says I was reading a frequency of 100 million. If you subtract the reading for each band, my readings are very close to the transmitted frequencies. Check it out...N8OB
Did you submit the readings with the decimal in the correct place? It was to be in Hertz.
It was submitted in HZ. In the past, it would not accept the wrong info.
On the results page you entered frequencies around 92mhz. What did you mean to enter?
K5CM - 80 3598118.50
K5CM - 40 7064197.48
W8RKO - 80 3598215.73
W8RKO - 40 7064083.50
These were the readings I measured and thought I entered.
N8OB - Bob
K5CM - 40 7064197.48
W8RKO - 80 3598215.73
W8RKO - 40 7064083.50
These were the readings I measured and thought I entered.
N8OB - Bob
This is what you entered.
It looks like 100Mhz on each field. That must be a bug, so I would email them and ask them to update your entry.
Your results look great and about what I got with my 6300.
73
It looks like 100Mhz on each field. That must be a bug, so I would email them and ask them to update your entry.
Your results look great and about what I got with my 6300.
73
(Edited)
I can't find an Email address to send to for them
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
The latest version of WSJT-X (1.8 RC) brings a GUI for the frequency measuring tools. Way cool. This is my 6700 (stock with OCXO) on 15 megs.
(Edited)
That is cool. I will have to see how my stock 6300 plays out. I was getting used to the command line stuff too. :)
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
Mode > FreqCal.
I would like to see the same test with an installed GPSDO
Ria - N2RJ, Elmer
It's on my list of things to get. :)
I recently started to play with FMT and found this thread. I have several questions as a result of some experimentation earlier today:
1) Should I be concerned over the large RX error? If I read the thread correctly that is mHz which is 20.042Hz.
c1|slice get_error 0
R1|0|+20042.419434,+10.652245
2) Using the 6600 and WSJT FreqCal, I measure a 5MHz reference at 4,999,996.191Hz over a 4 minute duration. A Fluke frequency counter concurrently measures the same reference signal to within 10uHz of 5MHz. Given the info in this thread I would have thought I would be much closer. Any thoughts as to why the difference? Summary of the WSJT reported data summarized in Excel is as follows:
Average of Measured Frequency 4,999,996.191
Min of Measured Frequency 4,999,995.822
Max of Measured Frequency 4,999,996.742
StdDev of Measured Frequency 0.151445633
Some insight regarding the configuration. The 5MHz reference signal is generated by an HP ESG signal generator. That 5JHz reference is feeds both the Fluke frequency counter and ANT1 of the 6600. That signal generator, the Fluke frequency counter and the 6600 (yes, it is using the external 10MHz reference) all share a common time base via a TAPR distribution amp. That distribution amp is fed by a Rb oscillator (Symmetricom X72) disciplined by a GPSDO (one of the "good" BG7TBL GPSDOs).
Thanks,
Ron
1) Should I be concerned over the large RX error? If I read the thread correctly that is mHz which is 20.042Hz.
c1|slice get_error 0
R1|0|+20042.419434,+10.652245
2) Using the 6600 and WSJT FreqCal, I measure a 5MHz reference at 4,999,996.191Hz over a 4 minute duration. A Fluke frequency counter concurrently measures the same reference signal to within 10uHz of 5MHz. Given the info in this thread I would have thought I would be much closer. Any thoughts as to why the difference? Summary of the WSJT reported data summarized in Excel is as follows:
Average of Measured Frequency 4,999,996.191
Min of Measured Frequency 4,999,995.822
Max of Measured Frequency 4,999,996.742
StdDev of Measured Frequency 0.151445633
Some insight regarding the configuration. The 5MHz reference signal is generated by an HP ESG signal generator. That 5JHz reference is feeds both the Fluke frequency counter and ANT1 of the 6600. That signal generator, the Fluke frequency counter and the 6600 (yes, it is using the external 10MHz reference) all share a common time base via a TAPR distribution amp. That distribution amp is fed by a Rb oscillator (Symmetricom X72) disciplined by a GPSDO (one of the "good" BG7TBL GPSDOs).
Thanks,
Ron
Michael Walker, Employee
Is your frequency offset setting set to ZERO?
If you are referring to Flex Offset (in ppb) no I did not. No mention of that in the original post unless I missed it. Is that a factor when using an external 10MHz timebase input? See screen snapshot below. I did not start a frequency calibration either.
Ron
Ron
Michael Walker, Employee
End of 4th paragraph
So applies to 6600 (and likely 6400) in addition to 6500 and 6700. Text implies specific to those 2 models. Will rerun tomorrow and report back. Thanks!
Ron
Ron
Michael Walker, Employee
Any 6400, 6500, 6600 or 6700 with a GPSDO or a 10Mhz reference.
You can use a 6300, but you will need to calibrate it to known good signals. A few years ago, I got to less than 1 Hz on all transmissions with a 6300 and using the FreqCal that is built into WSJT. Don't wait for the last moment as it does take a bit of setup.
It would be very cool to see a LOT of Flex owners give this a shot and then submit their results. I might start a new community entry to generate some interest for the November FMT.
Mike
You can use a 6300, but you will need to calibrate it to known good signals. A few years ago, I got to less than 1 Hz on all transmissions with a 6300 and using the FreqCal that is built into WSJT. Don't wait for the last moment as it does take a bit of setup.
It would be very cool to see a LOT of Flex owners give this a shot and then submit their results. I might start a new community entry to generate some interest for the November FMT.
Mike
Mike,
That (zeroing out the offset) resolved the issue. I now get:
That (zeroing out the offset) resolved the issue. I now get:
RX error (in milliHertz) = -3.814697
TX error (in milliHertz) = +3.914697
BTW, is there any reason the offset is ignored when using a internal/external GPSDO. Seems like it's primary reason for existence is to a correction mechanism for the internal TCXO/OCXO?
So moving on to your comment to "see a LOTof Flex owners". I started to put together a how to that, if you're willing to work with me, I'll incorporate any corrections/updates. Below is the current table of contents. If you are willing to review it, please send me an email to ron_at_panman_dot_us
Thanks,
Ron
Michael Walker, Employee
Hi Ron
I'm sure several of us would love to help you out by reviewing it. You can email it to me at michael@flex-radio.com.
And, I think the reason we zero it out is that we expect the GPSDO or the 10Mhz reference to be more accurate than the onboard TCXO. However, I have asked Engineering to be sure.
I'm sure several of us would love to help you out by reviewing it. You can email it to me at michael@flex-radio.com.
And, I think the reason we zero it out is that we expect the GPSDO or the 10Mhz reference to be more accurate than the onboard TCXO. However, I have asked Engineering to be sure.
Draft sent via email.
Thanks,
Ron
Thanks,
Ron
Anything new here? FMT coming up.Can I help with anything?
Thought the Flex folk were going to post the guide. Have not heard any feedback from them. If you email me (email good on QRZ.COM) I'll email you the current version.
Michael Walker, Employee
My bad. Let my see about it tomorrow morning.
Mike
Mike
Mike, Thanks!
Ron
Ron
Those interested in my FMT document can find it viia https://helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/360035279112-ARRL-FMT-Technique-with-FLEX-6000-Series-Radios. Thanks to the Flex folk for their insight and posting it on my behalf. I will continue to maintain the master. Feel free to either post suggestions/corrections here or email to me (email address is good on QRZ.COM). Good luck on the FMT.
73,
Ron, WB2WGH
73,
Ron, WB2WGH
Thanks, Ron. Great document for setting up FMT. I did some testing on my 6600 with GPS DO and I noticed one inconsistency. On page 2, Steve stated that there were improvements at SmartSDR 1.10.9 and we should see errors +/- 28.61 mHz. I ran the test at four frequencies and got these RX_Error values:
0.6185 MHz 19.073486 mHz
1.1285 MHz -3.81300 mHz
9.9985 MHz 38.146973 mHz
14.9985MHz -22.88184 mHz
I was surprised that the get_error query returned a value of 38.146973 based on Steve's statement. Any ideas? I have 14 satellites visible and tracking 11.
Chuck, W9WLX
0.6185 MHz 19.073486 mHz
1.1285 MHz -3.81300 mHz
9.9985 MHz 38.146973 mHz
14.9985MHz -22.88184 mHz
I was surprised that the get_error query returned a value of 38.146973 based on Steve's statement. Any ideas? I have 14 satellites visible and tracking 11.
Chuck, W9WLX
GetError has nothing to do with GPSDO. It’s the error caused by the truncated tuning word. Not every frequency can be directly represented by the tuning word.
Everything you said it true, however the get_error command is only useful if the radio is GPS locked or locked to a 10MHz reference. The result does not take into account any drift in the internal OCXO or TCXO.
http://wiki.flexradio.com/index.php?title=TCP/IP_slice#GET_ERROR
http://wiki.flexradio.com/index.php?title=TCP/IP_slice#GET_ERROR
Bill, is there an area of the document that is misleading regarding get_error and GPSDO? If so, identify where and I will update the master to avoid any confusion.
Ron
Ron
Chuck, I'll have to defer to the folk at Flex as all I did was pull together the "How To" and don't have enough insight into the internal workings of the Flex.
As to your results, the last 2 frequencies look to be the WWV frequencies less 1500Hz. Were you measuring WWV and providing the slice frequency?
As to the other 2, I don't recognize those. DId you used a signal generator referenced to a GPSDO to generate the 2 test frequencies then measured the error on the 6600 using the method outlined by Steve and documented in my PDF? If so, one possible factor could be that GPSDOs are extremely accurate when averaged over the long term but not as accurate for short term measurements.
Ron
As to your results, the last 2 frequencies look to be the WWV frequencies less 1500Hz. Were you measuring WWV and providing the slice frequency?
As to the other 2, I don't recognize those. DId you used a signal generator referenced to a GPSDO to generate the 2 test frequencies then measured the error on the 6600 using the method outlined by Steve and documented in my PDF? If so, one possible factor could be that GPSDOs are extremely accurate when averaged over the long term but not as accurate for short term measurements.
Ron
Ron, yes I was measuring WWV. The other two frequencies are two regional AM broadcasters in my area (620 & 1130 KHz). I was curious what I would get measuring their frequency. I used 100 measurements sampled over about 5 minutes and took a mean average for each signal.
Thanks for putting the document together. Nicely done!
Chuck
Thanks for putting the document together. Nicely done!
Chuck
(Edited)
Practicing for tomorrow night received a Slice Get_error -45.774696 on my 6700 running 3.1.8
Ron, no problems with your document.
Ron, no problems with your document.
(Edited)
It's tonight at 8 PM CST, 7 PM EST.
Always forget UTC starts the days B4 here thanks Dave
Mike va3mw
I'm doing it the old fashion way with the FMT code that comes with WSPR.
73