Anyone seeing this on 20m?

  • 1
  • Question
  • Updated 2 years ago
A strange signal seems to have shown up around 14.030.  I don't know when it started.  It could be local (in house noise) or remote.  I only have an end fed wire so I can't turn a beam to see if it is external or specific to a direction.

Just wondering if anyone else sees this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7578983/20mSignal12282015.mp4
Photo of Mark - WS7M

Mark - WS7M

  • 959 Posts
  • 337 Reply Likes

Posted 2 years ago

  • 1
Photo of K7NXT

K7NXT

  • 37 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
I can't comment on this signal, but please advise on how you captured the video.  This is very nice documentation.
Photo of Mark - WS7M

Mark - WS7M

  • 956 Posts
  • 336 Reply Likes
Snagit for Windows.  Worth the money if you are doing anything and need screen shots.  It does both caps of stills and movies and you can edit them with arrows and text.
Photo of Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

Guy G4DWV/4X1LT

  • 1687 Posts
  • 387 Reply Likes
I'd advise a look at Screenpresso, brilliant program.
(Edited)
Photo of K7NXT

K7NXT

  • 37 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
Thanks..  I see strange and interesting signals from time to time, but I live near a military base, so who knows?
Photo of Andreas Junge

Andreas Junge, Elmer

  • 37 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes
It's probably related to Ethernet spurs. 

http://audiosystemsgroup.com/Ferrites-Ham.pdf

73, Andreas, N6NU
Photo of Mark - WS7M

Mark - WS7M

  • 956 Posts
  • 336 Reply Likes
Andreas, thanks for the great link.  More to study and learn.

One interesting point is if I disconnect the antenna the signal disappears.  Not sure what that means but if it was from an ethernet device I'd think I'd still see some of it even with the antenna disconnected.  But it goes away completely.

I'll do more snooping around.  The only new device in the shack is a Vellman relay board.  I'll try playing with that to see if it is perhaps the cause.
Photo of James Del Principe

James Del Principe

  • 230 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Mark, if it goes away when you disconnect the antenna it means the signal is radiated and not coming in on the power lines....a small but valuable piece of information. It looks like a carrier at 14.030 with sidebands but I could be very wrong about that. Have you tried to demodulate it with something like FLDIGI?  Maybe it is a digital signal. I think any Ethernet signal would look more like hash. Keep us updated.   73, Jim
Photo of K1FR

K1FR

  • 106 Posts
  • 9 Reply Likes
Mark:  I have had pretty close to the exact same mess on the same freq.  In my case it was the Verizon DSL router cable from the router to the computer that was putting out the noise.  Ferrites fixed the worst of it.

73, Tom
K1FR
Photo of Mark - WS7M

Mark - WS7M

  • 956 Posts
  • 336 Reply Likes
Thanks Tom,  Good to know.  I have a bunch of chokes and will start searching around.
Photo of George Molnar, KF2T

George Molnar, KF2T, Elmer

  • 1529 Posts
  • 541 Reply Likes
Looks like a router spur. Do you see it anywhere else?
Photo of Mark - WS7M

Mark - WS7M

  • 959 Posts
  • 337 Reply Likes
No, and frankly I've not changed equipment for a while and this seems to have come up in the last week or so.

As I said above my only new piece of gear is a Vellman TCP/IP relay.  It could be a cause so I'll have to check it out.
Photo of K7NXT

K7NXT

  • 37 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
But do you have a close neighbor who may have added equipment or be operating something like a blender or power saw?
Photo of Mark - WS7M

Mark - WS7M

  • 959 Posts
  • 337 Reply Likes
Well I live in a neighborhood where the closest house to me is about 100 or more feet away.  It is always possible someone got a new toy... This might have arrived around Christmas perhaps.  

Before I go snooping about I will debug my own stuff first.  But yes it is possible I guess.
Photo of Robert AA6UP

Robert AA6UP

  • 33 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Mark,

I have it on my N-S oriented windom at about S8-ish - almost unreadable on my 43ft vert. I'm about 120 miles east of San Fran, 60 mi N of Fresno CM97qh - Robert
Photo of Mark - WS7M

Mark - WS7M

  • 956 Posts
  • 336 Reply Likes
Robert, same looking signal in roughly the same place frequency-wise?   Wow!
Photo of Robert AA6UP

Robert AA6UP

  • 33 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
I don't have the 3000 online at the moment so I can't verify what it looks like, but it seems to be at or near 14029.650...there are multiple freqs on the carrier as your screen shot shows so it's difficult for me to say exactly where the main component is situated.

I would put it fairly close to me, < 600-700 miles since there doesn't seem to be any QSB or polarity shifting and it stays right at S9 with very little variation in sig strength.
Photo of R2AGG

R2AGG

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hello!
In Russia, such "sticks" on the HF air there for a long time. Every year noise only increase. I have stopped noticing them. If the station is working for them, I have to ignore it. 
In any big city uses this technology - "Power Line Communication" (PCL). The probability of interference comes from "PCL".

See picture


A similar picture?

Imagine that such packets "sticks" hanging over the whole band: 14030, 14090, 14150, 14212, 14272, 14334, 14396 kHz

Video here (click): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20526580/hams/QSO/SPUUR_20m.mp4 


F***ing civilization
(Edited)
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3873 Posts
  • 1179 Reply Likes
it looks and sounds a lot like the junk emitted by my router/DSL modem.  But it could be a lot of things.
Photo of R2AGG

R2AGG

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Question: how to remove it?
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3861 Posts
  • 1174 Reply Likes
If the router/modem is the problem, get some mix 31 ferrite beads and apply liberally to lines in and out of the router, and power supply. The same goes for other noisy wall-wart power supplies, etc.
Photo of James Del Principe

James Del Principe

  • 238 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
At the risk of stating the obvious, first the problem must be located. Is it inside or outside the house? Turn off everything not needed, including other computers, routers, modems, printers, scanners, lamp dimmers, TV sets, flip breakers off. In short, only keep the radio and its computer on.  If he must point the beam to the south to receive this, it does not suggest the issue is inside. After locating the source, only then can he develop a solution......and in the end, it may not be under his control. Could be at a neighbors home or some distance away. Let's see what he finds after attempts to isolate this.       73, Jim
Photo of Ken - NM9P

Ken - NM9P, Elmer

  • 3872 Posts
  • 1177 Reply Likes
That is..unless his house, router, or other equipment is south of his antenna! For me, southwest aims right over my family room....and the router & dsl modem.
Photo of Kevin Va3KGS

Kevin Va3KGS

  • 96 Posts
  • 21 Reply Likes

Make a short indoor wire dipole antenna (couple of feet ) supported on a piece of wood.  Rotate it around and see if its local in the house.  Did this and found it was my high tech battery charger in the garage.

Good Luck !!

Happy new year

Kevin

Photo of Norm - W7CK

Norm - W7CK

  • 745 Posts
  • 151 Reply Likes
I have similar noise.  My entire station with the exception of the amplifier runs off of solar.  I turned off the power to the house and the noise remained. I plug my laptop directly into the 6700 for testing so that I can turn off the router and switch. My noise has a strong peak that osculates slightly in frequency and occurs every 55khz or so with a much smaller peak half way between. It is fairly strong on 17m but is essentially through the entire HF spectrum.

I live in an neighborhood with underground utilities but recently was told it might be the electric meter.  I haven't had a chance to check it yet.  There are so many electric/electronic devices being sold now that are so called smart!  They all have small computers in them.  Shoot even the newer dishwashers, clothes washers/driers, refrigerators etc., are starting to show up with these darn computers and they never turn off.  Another problem is the new motors used in swimming pools, hot tubs and AC units.  They create hash all over the bands.  I don't know how they get approved with all of the RF they produce.  Its frustrating - I don't think anyone in Washington is looking out for us any more!
(Edited)
Photo of James Del Principe

James Del Principe

  • 238 Posts
  • 25 Reply Likes
Norm, you are absolutely correct. The world is becoming a very noisy place indeed. My last QTH had new power lines strung in air at 25 KV.  Any damp day drove me off the air. My wife holds off using the washer because of all the junk it puts out across the bands. The new energy efficient motors, as you point out, are only making things worse. Hopefully, future DSP will help us.  73, Jim
Photo of K7NXT

K7NXT

  • 37 Posts
  • 27 Reply Likes
And don't forget today's high-tech light bulbs, especially the ones that are dimable.  73, Bill