Another question on the upcoming SSDR 1.4 client -- remote CW via paddle

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  • Updated 4 years ago
  • (Edited)
Is CW via a paddle supported in the V1.4 update LAN remote update?  

For reference here is the original question below  The original question was closed as answered so I couldn't post an update to it.  I'm still considering a Surface 3 but no need to get it now if there is not going to be CW available.  

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REMOTE -- Is CW via a paddle in scope for the remote enhancement coming in V1.4 and V2.0?

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/remote_is_cw_via_a_paddle_in_scope_for_the_remote_e...

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Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Posted 4 years ago

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Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager

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To send CW while using LAN Remote will require using CWX. The use of a remote keying device is not going to be a feature included in SmartSDR v1.4
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Thanks Tim for the answer.  I know FRS won't speculate as to when it will be available (don't comment on future releases, etc).  But it sounds like it could be months or years away --- maybe others will have some better guesses.

In the mean time, I'll be interested in to see how others like V1.4 on the Surface 3.  And if the CW paddle support is going to be a long ways off I might look at the new iPad PRO (12 inch tablet) when it comes out this summer to give Stu's app a try.    My old GEN 1 iPad is ready for an upgrade.  
Who knows, maybe there will be a Surface 4 when CW paddle remote is ready.  (hi hi)

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
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Carl Moreschi

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I have this feature now in my N4PY Pegasus Plus program.  You can use a Winkey K1EL keyer and Pegasus Plus can take the characters received from the Keyer and send them to the Flex 6000.
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Jay -- N0FB, Elmer

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For a completely native remote CW experience using the CW Key or Paddle of your choice, I would think this require both hardware and software solution on the Remote Client side (laptop).   If the goal is to be able to use your own Key, the solution would likely require either a custom Flex Radio USB to 1/4 (or 1/8) inch stereo jack dongle or some 3rd party USB to CW Key interface which meets a specification Flex Radio supports.  Then there would be the necessary software to pass the electronic impulses from the key to SmartSDR and then to the radio via IP.  I would think that some new additions to the API would be developed to support remote CW keying.

I'm not seeing how this could work without a hardware interface between the computer and your key/paddle.  This would not be an insignificant task for FRS to implement.
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Jay,
Yes, the goal is to connect your own key or paddle to the remote PC and access the internal Flex keyer.  You are right about needing a hardware interface.  There are at least 3 ways noted in the previous thread.  

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/remote_is_cw_via_a_paddle_in_scope_for_the_remote_e...

- key/paddle to serial to usb interface  (Steve Hicks is leaning toward this option)
- bluetooth adapter
- new FlexControl with a key/paddle jack (Stu K6TU said it's possible)

Steve Hicks has a plan but didn't specify the details or timing.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
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Al K0VM, Elmer

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One should recognize that sending CW elements over a LAN/WAN connection is subject to varying latencies imposed by the LAN connection.  A LAN connection is never the same as a direct wire connection when it comes to millisecond timing.

AL, K0VM
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Hi Al,
Agree latency is a concern of mine also.  Perhaps QSK is out and maybe semi-breakin is okay.  Steve thinks it will work so I'm going with that until we hear otherwise.

LAN is one thing, WAN will be even more of a concern.....

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
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Carl Moreschi

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My method goes like this.
You run a K1EL Winkey keyer.  You have the keyer side tone turned on. You form the characters normally with the keyer.  My N4PY software running in the client, receives the characters (via a USB port) from the keyer and sends them to the Flex 6000 over the LAN.
Yes, there is about half second latency.  But you still have full QSK listening over the LAN because the only time you lose receive is during the actual transmit of the characters at the Flex 6000.  And it might be best to turn off the sidetone on the Flex 6000 to make it less confusing since with it on, you would hear each character twice.  That would be from the winkey sidetone and then a half second later from the Flex 6000.  Dah's and dits and not sent to the 6000, only characters.

I've played with this and it actually goes very well.
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Paul Christensen, W9AC, Elmer

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> "Yes, there is about half second latency.  But you still have full QSK listening over the LAN because the only time you lose receive is during the actual transmit of the characters at the Flex 6000."

That's an important point and N4PY is correct.   For the last several years, I've used two WinkeyerUSB (WKUSB) devices, one configured as a host, the other a client.  The paddle plugs into the WKUSB at the remote site just as one would want.  Characters are formed, sent over the Internet and decompiled by the WKUSB device at the host.  N4PY's method may deviate a bit from this but it's essentially the same result.

Listening between keyed elements is not a problem as N4PY states,  Just expect the Rx audio to be heard a split-second later but it is still full, fast QSK.

There is one important caveat when using the pair of WKUSB devices.   It's almost mandatory to activate the character auto-space feature.  Without perfectly formed characters, the host cannot always interpret imperfect CW as our ear/brain can.

I'm also using the WKUSB pair on a local LAN with my Flex 6700. The remote WKUSB device is plugged into a Dell Venue Pro 8 tablet PC running Win8.   SSDR is loaded on the tablet.  The WKUSB is powered by the tablet's USB port.  There are no external power connections, unless I want one.  Audio comes from DAX and I use an N4YG DDS chip to locally generate a ramped, pure sine-wave CW side-tone.  The CW side-tone is real time and injected into the tablet.   

In essence, I already have SSDR 1.4 running albeit without the other features.  The icing is that real CW paddles are used in a very compact tablet system -- anywhere on the LAN.

Paul, W9AC


(Edited)
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Al / NN4ZZ

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Paul,
It will be interesting to see what strategy FRS uses to combat latency with a "native  keyer" strategy (i.e. PC and radio only).    No external devices like the WinKeyerUSB, just connect your paddle to the remote PC or Windows tablet. 

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ  
al (at) nn4zz (dot) com
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