Android App

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  • Updated 1 month ago
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I started working on a Android App to go alongside my CMD micro.  I wanted a few additional feature at hands reach without having to use the mouse.

Currently the following features are working;

1.  Band Selection
2. DSP (NR.NB.ANF)
3. RX filter high/low
4.  Xit/RIT
5.  And for fun DX spots

Currently the DX spots show 5 newest spots from all bands, at some point I will update this to be 5 latest spots of the current band.  Clicking the buttons beside the spot will tune that spot.

This app is just a proof of concept and a fun project, however no scaling has been implemented.  So this will only work on the tablet I designed it for.  So sorry if you don't have a Samsung galaxy tab 4, it won't work.  This is not meant to be a published App, but maybe one day.




William
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William Hemmingsen

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Posted 3 years ago

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William Hemmingsen

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What do yall think of this one?

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William Hemmingsen

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And he is talking about flex, cool!  LOL  wonder if this guy is on the forum.
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GI4FZD

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I prefer the previous display..but congrats on coming so far in such a short time.
Cheers
Paul
gi4fzd
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IW7DMH, Enzo

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I think it is a really great project.
Please consider to open a part of your code so one can send commands to the rig.
I imagine using your app on a UDOO device and using real knobs connected to the embedded Arduino Due board.
If you plan to migrate your project on UDOO, I'll be glad to send you all my Arduino code.

73' Enzo
iw7dmh
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James Whiteway

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Enzo, wouldn't using a device like the CMD Micro controller with a tablet work the same? I can use it with my my Nextbook Win 8.1 tablet and SSDR ( using a USB adapter) and have a portable setup with knobs. (wired to the tablet, but, still works)
james
WD5GWY

Edit:  it sounds like your idea is something along the lines of the upcoming Maestro.
But, maybe a bit cheaper to do?
(Edited)
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William Hemmingsen

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James,

I have thought hard about interfacing the CMD micro to the android.  It would sure solve much of the real estate issues.  But then again, its not exactly portable.

Enzo,

I will look into that.

Paul,

I like the new way better, but the wonderful thing, is I can do both.

William

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Gary Robertson - KY5R

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Hi William,

I am very impressed with your work on the android app and hope that you will make it available to the ham community someday. I would be willing to pay a reasonable amount (say up to $30) for such an android app.

I am thinking about buying a 7 or 8" android tablet in the near future but have a number of questions about what I should buy. I know your app is unfinished. However, could you give me your best advice on the following desired or required components of such an android tablet:

1.   Minimum android operating system
2.   Speed of processor and number of cores
3.   Mimimum amount of internal ram
4.   Minimum storage capacity

Costco has a good deal on a Samsung Galaxy Tab 4 with Wi-Fi Tablet with android 4.4 operating system, 1.2 GHz quad-core processor, 1.5GB RAM, 16GB storage. Would this Samsung tablet adequately run your future app? Or, is a Sansung tablet overkill and a cheaper android tablet would work just as well?

Any advice that you could provide on the type of tablet that I should buy would be great;y appreciated. 

Gary Robertson
KY5R
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William Hemmingsen

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I would buy a 10" tablet with android 5+.  That being said, everything I am doing is on a Samsung Galaxy tab 4 10.1.

The Galaxy Tab is planned for an upgrade to android 5.1

That being said, If I ever finish this app LOL

William
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IW7DMH, Enzo

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James Whiteway wrote
Enzo, wouldn't using a device like the CMD Micro controller with a tablet work the same? I can use it with my my Nextbook Win 8.1 tablet and SSDR ( using a USB adapter) and have a portable setup with knobs. (wired to the tablet, but, still works)
james
WD5GWY

Edit:  it sounds like your idea is something along the lines of the upcoming Maestro.
But, maybe a bit cheaper to do?

James, I like Dxing and contests and using a tablet next to a CMD Micro controller isn't a handy solution (at least for me).
When I started to work on my Arduino controller I had in mind a small box with direct connection to the rig just like the Maestro solution is; of course I didn't aware of Flex future projects, but it seems the idea is the same (actually everybody here had the same idea).
Someone else already asked about some kind of APIs for the Maestro board also, and I think it would be nice having a way to embed a logger/keyer software into Maestro. That is the reason, some time ago, I asked for a pluggable system also in the SSDR GUI. My idea wasn't very appreciated but now I am pretty sure it can be realized at least using a UDOO like board and an ad-hoc suite for Flex rigs. Better of course if it can be using Maestro. While I am waiting it will be available here in Italy, I'll play with my controller that now implements the whole command API. I just started to learn Metering protocol so I can implement meters like SWR, power, and so on. Here is a picture of it: plenty of multifuncion knobs. You can be sure you can use a flex without having to watch the monitor or having to deal with the mouse for fine dsp/bw filter tuning.

73' Enzo
iw7dmh

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William Hemmingsen

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Thats cool Enzo!
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James Whiteway

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Certainly is! Well done.
james
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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At this point it's almost certain that we will be including a K1EL Winkeyer in Maestro, FYI.  

Your control looks cool, Enzo -- I'd love to see a video of it in action!
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IW7DMH, Enzo

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Hello, it is a great idea a K1EL keyer inside Maestro!
Don't like to take the scene to William's masterpiece but here is my control at work during a dx-pedition shoot. It seems smooth and reliable and meters are simply fabulous.

73'

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William Hemmingsen

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Maybe its the 4 shots of tequila I just had, But I love this!

(Edited)
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William Hemmingsen

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I don't know if I will ever finish this thing, but I'm sure having fun trying :)
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James Whiteway

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Sure looks like fun! One idea, in the waterfall, how about showing the strongest portion of a signal in a darker color like dark red? Similar to what SSDR and other SDR programs do. (Vary intensity according to signal strength) This version certainly looks very nice. You are close, if not already there, on getting the panafall done.
james
WD5GWY
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William Hemmingsen

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James, if the signal is strong enough it is red,  but my gradient I built required a super strong signal for red to appear.  I will tweak the gradient as time goes by.  Currently I'm using 1280 colors from dark blue-blue-green-yellow-red.

There is some red in the video, the cam just does not pick it up well

William
(Edited)
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William Hemmingsen

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on another note, I have been having fun making so DX QSO's with the Android App

W4WHL
(Edited)
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James Whiteway

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Tease!!!
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William Hemmingsen

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lol
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William Hemmingsen

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Just logged a VK3, my first using the Android app.  I only have an indoor 2 element beam in my attic, so Australia is rare.  Strange condition today.

William
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Walt - KZ1F

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was the mic and headset Android, in other words you got Opus properly wired?
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William Hemmingsen

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No i wish.  I have no idea how to compile the codec using NDK, so I have to wait till its natively supported in android 5.

Unless you have some advise on this subject.

William
W4WHL

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Walt - KZ1F

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I thought your, whatever it is, had been updated. Do you know if it even will be updated?
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William Hemmingsen

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Yes its in development, no date given for update.  My phone has upgraded to Android 5, but don't really want to develop on my phone.

William
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Walt - KZ1F

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Well, here is a thought. You said you were using Android Studio. Make a virtual device that runs Lollipop.  You should be able to define your tablet and tell it that it has 5.1, I think that is 23. So, as far as testing it, on that device, yes, that would be iffy for now but you can test it in the virtual device.
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William Hemmingsen

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There is a bug with the VM.  UDP forwarding does not work. I have tried everything, but no luck with the emulator for UDP.

William
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William Hemmingsen

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Almost full screen waterfall, also added a scale.

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Walt - KZ1F

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William, I thought you'd like to see. This was a test I did awhile back. Now I know how to upload, I thought you'd like to see this. It was a very static filled night.
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William Hemmingsen

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Nice
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William Hemmingsen

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It looks similar to one of my java test on the PC.  Thanks for the metering code snippet in the other thread.  I see now that each 32 bit word is made up of a 16bit meter ID and a 16 bit value. 

My biggest hurdle is finding what I need in the API code.  Not being a programmer, its hard for me to find this stuff.  But once shown I learn quick.  I'm having fun with it.

William
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Very nice, Walt.
William, have you considered using just one dot on the panadapter trace instead of a whole bar? Would it save any processing juice? I actually prefer the line trace rather than the whole "filled under the trace" way. But I'm aware that people are pretty passionate about their preferences in this matter. Ha.
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Walt - KZ1F

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At the end of the day WIlliam, that is what counts. I will take a stab at Ken's question, likely not as the GPU is passed the data. Aside from that it is expecting an image and that is what is sent from the radio. It is, essentially incredibly inexpensive.
1) get it working, 2) get it working correctly, 3) if, AND ONLY IF, there is a performance issue, find the hot spot and optimize it. In a week or so I will have the Opus code done.
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William Hemmingsen

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Nice, are you compiling based on Opus source code, writing your own, or using Android 5?

Ken, not sure what you mean by just one dot.  But if you mean a line of dots, vs a solid line, it makes no noticeable difference at all. Going from a mini waterfall to almost full screen, had no noticeable affect at all either. 

I like my rainbow panadapter, I think I will keep that for now.  Time to move on and tackle a new thing.  Next is metering. 

William
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William Hemmingsen

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Also, I plan on using my own waterfall for now, and not use the waterfall tile from the radio.  Since I don't want or need off screen data.   The entire waterfall is only about 15 lines of code  One less vita packet I have to process.

Not sure if this is the best idea, and may revisit it later, but for now I'm perfectly happy with what I have working.

William
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Walt - KZ1F

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The nice thing about being author is it will follow you're every whim.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Android and Linux
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Walt - KZ1F

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Frankly the whole remote thing is relatively meaningless on Linux, although it does run on my laptop so...maybe but I'll use my tablet instead. The technology of this laptop is pre-Li-Ion.
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William Hemmingsen

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Fullscreen Panfall with S-Meter



Sorry about the bright waterfall, the camera makes it way brighter than it is in person
(Edited)
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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I like it! I never would have thought of the color shift on the panadapter trace. Nice touch. I like the color shift on the waterfall that SSDR has, this does it one better, especially for times when not using the waterfall.

Too bad you can't port this over to iPad! I would love to play with it.

Ken - NM9P
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William Hemmingsen

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Testing the Android App with the CMD micro.  This was a simple test of some new code.  As you notice in the video.  The waterfall no longer shifts with frequency.  Instead the frequency line marker moves.  The waterfall recenters  when you run the frequency marker off screen.  I'm just using the CMD micro to tune around to test the code.  Eventually the code will be updated to move the frequency by swiping the screen.

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William Hemmingsen

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I just bought a new Samsung Galaxy tab S 10.5.  This tablet is a dual processor 1.9 ghz Quad core and a 1.3 ghz Quad core.

ExynosTM 5 Octa ( A13 1.9Ghz Quadcore + A7 1.3 Ghz Quadcore)

 Lollipop 5.02 is also now available.  So time to get working on that OPUS audio :)

William
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Oh boy!  the fun starts!
Congrats on the new tablet.
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James Whiteway

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Good deal! I've been looking at the same tablet. Nice, very thin and great screen res , with pretty good battery life.
james
WD5GWY
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Alex - DH2ID, Elmer

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Hi William, I've got the same one. Runs really fast. Now the only thing missing is just your App...
(Edited)
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William Hemmingsen

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Walt,

Maybe you can help me with something!

I am trying to scale my waterfall correctly.  Lets say I have the following;
screen px witdh =2560
screen dp witdh =1280
surfaceview width dp = 1248
surfaceview width px = 2496

We have a ratio of px/dp = 2

So based on this I create a waterfall stream based on surfaceview dp width of 1248, x=1248.

I set paint strokewidth to 2, so that 2 real pixels are colored for each dp.  so when drawing my points I will draw first pixel at 0, second at 2, 3rd at 4, etc.  But for some reason there is a fine spce between the points that causes 1000+ little black lines in the waterfall.

Of course I can up the stroke width to account for this, but I want the stroke width to be dynamic based on the surfaceview dp size.  This way the app will work with all 1280dp wide screens.

On galaxy tab 4 which has a px width of 1280, and a dp width of 1280, the ratio is 1:1.  Setting stroke width to one fo this display works fine.  But on my new tablet with a 1280dp w and 2560px w display, I get the fine horizontal lines.  So why doesn't setting stroke width to (px/dp) work?

I hope the above makes any since.  Any ideas?

William
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James Whiteway

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William, I thought that the higher res tablets like the Galaxy upconverted the resolution on apps that were written at a lower resolution. Or maybe, I'm just dreaming. Is there a function in Java that could check the resolution of the device that an application is running on and set the app's resolution accordingly?
james
WD5GWY

(forgive my ignorance if this turns out to be a dumb question!)
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William Hemmingsen

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James you have to scale the app yourself.  But there are methods to do this.  Android uses density pixels for most things.  For example all 10" tablets have a DP of 1280x800 regardless of actual pixel count.

However when drawing in a Surfaceview, it uses actual pixels.  However I want my surfaceview to use density pixel values.

My issue was using paint strokewidth.  To scale all my values for a surfaceview with a higher res screen I was using this math scale=ScreenRes/DPRes.  I would then multiply all my values by scale. 

The issue I discovered was, strokewidth of 1 is not really 1 pixel.  Took me forever to find this.

So the new math is scale=(ScreenRes/DPRes) +0.5f
Pixel width = 2560
DP width = 1280
so scale = (Pixel Width/DP Width)+0.5f = 2.5, so now to paint 1 density pixel, I set paint.strokewidth(scale);

Don't ask me how this works, as I could only find the formula, and no reference to why.  But it solved my issue.

William



So this issue has been solved,
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William Hemmingsen

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I had limited success with audio today.  I was able to get dax (floating point) audio working sort of.  I get audio, but its extremely choppy.  This can be a couple things, but I think its related to how fast my app processes the network data.  I have to play some more.  The audio sounds like pauses between packets, so it has a stuttering choppy sound.  Anyone have any ideas what I could look at?

I had zero success with OPUS, I just can't get the decoder to work.  I will keep playing.

 William
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William Hemmingsen

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I figured out what my DAX issue was, I have some thread blocking happening.  This is just a programming fault I will have to solve.  My waterfall draw is blocking network reads.  This is causing waits on network reads.  For a test I killed all draws from the waterfall. and the dax audio was smooth as silk. 

So now I know where the issue is, and I'm pretty sure how to solve it, but it will take some time.

It seems that working with codecs in android is some magic voodoo.  So I need to read up on implementing codecs.  But I'm fairly confident with time, I will solve opus too.

William
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William Hemmingsen

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Dax audio working, i changed the threading and now no audio stuttering and full waterfall fps.

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Bob G W1GLV

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Bill, is the waterfall version available to play with?
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William Hemmingsen

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Not yet. The app has limited functionality. I still have a lot of work to do on the controls. While the waterfall works great, I still need to recreate the controls to operate it.

William
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Bob G W1GLV

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Thanks for the update. You're doing a good job.
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William Hemmingsen

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I implemented swipe tuning.  I have to fine tune it, but its a successful test.  Sorry about the terrible video!

(Edited)
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James Whiteway

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William, can you zoom the display with gestures too?
james
WD5GWY
 
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Looking good!
A few performance ideas you probably have already thought of....

Touch and swipe = move the panadapter.
Double tap = touch-tune slice to this frequency.
Touch, hold, and swipe = move slice to this frequency and slide frequency with finger movement.
Pinch or spread = zoom adjustment.
Single tap = toggle swipe mode between shift frequency and shift panadapter.

Just a few possibilities.
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William Hemmingsen

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James yes, pinch zoom is working.

Ken here is my plan

The touch functions differently on the panadapter then the waterfall.  I did this so I wouldn't need any toggles.

1.  Pinch/spread in the panadapter area unzoom/zoom.  (working)
2.  Swiping in the panadapter area shifts the panfall left right (not implemented yet)
3.  swipe in waterfall area shifts frequency.  (working)
4.  Snap tuning (working for 250hz, more steps eventually)
5.  Panfall max/min dbm adjustment, works like gain/blacklevel (working)

And the list goes on forever LOL

For #2 I need to make some changes to how I draw the screen.

All of this is just testing and getting a foundation.  As I said earlier, I will be redoing the UI completely.  I'm just testing snippets of code that will go into the final product.

While DAX is working great, its a constant 1.3mbps stream.  For testing I turned on DAX on the PC, and DAX on the android.  For some reason the PC has a much larger lag than the android.  I would have expected the opposite, but Its a good thing I guess.  But I really need to get OPUS figured out before I go much further.  I could play with DAX TX, which shouldn't be too hard.  But I would rather focus that time on OPUS.

The more I progress, the more I realize I need to do :) 
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Ken - NM9P, Elmer

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Good ideas, William. 
Are you going to allow changing the proportion of pan vs. waterfall?  My preference is to have about a 50/50 split on SSB because I like to zoom in and watch people's voice patterns.  (I'm weird that way).  In any case, the display is looking very nice!  As I have said before, you have taken this programming way past anything I have ever done.  I need to get back to my MIDI controller project soon.  But I need to finish my tower project first!

Keep up the good work.  If it gets any better, I may have to look for an android tablet!  I already have an iPad Air.  (I don't know if I can sneak another tablet past my XYL!)


Ken - NM9P
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Alex - DH2ID, Elmer

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Ken, I own a Galaxy Tab S (SM-T800), which was a present by my wife Beatriz DD5JZ.... ;-)
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William Hemmingsen

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Ken,

I have not even thought about that.  Currently I have it hard coded at 30/70.  But I'm sure I could make it variable.

William.

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John

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Hi Guys,
Can one purchase a copy of the app as I would like to use it on my galaxy tab2 10" tablet via wifi or bluetooth to control the powerSDR software. Please contact me via my email address
thanks
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William Hemmingsen

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Running on a galaxy s5 phone :)

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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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Love it!
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William Hemmingsen

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Thanks Steve!  Its been a fun project.  But so much to do.  So little time!
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W5XZ - dan

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too cool, william!  sign me up !!
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William Hemmingsen

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Don't get too exited, its far from useable. Currently there is no band switching, actually no adjustments of any kind LOL.  Its just a waterfall with audio, hard coded to 20m USB.  But the controls will be added in time.  I'm designing a new tabbed UI so I can add in the controls.  But my focus is on getting OPUS audio/TX working first.
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Walt - KZ1F

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How many activities/fragments are you up to now? Did you not get the email I sent?
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W5XZ - dan

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will my at&t S-5 running Lollipop 5.0 need root privileges william?

GREAT STUFF!
 
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William Hemmingsen

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Walt,  no I didnt get your email.  Try again

lee.hemmingsen@gmail.com

Dan,  No no root required

William
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Robbie - KI4TTZ

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Very cool - this is the same phone I have.
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Walt - KZ1F

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There was an interesting article in the NYT the other day in their technology section. What was interesting was the article, which was written by an Apple fanboy, rather the comments, which largely called him out for being a well known Apple fanboy. They did mention that the nice thing about Android was, aside from being free, did not require rooting or otherwise jailbreaking.
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GI4FZD

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Maybe we will have an iphone7 running on android..just like we have osX running on intel cpus now..Ha!!
cheers
Paul
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Walt - KZ1F

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I don't know why Apple dropped PowerPC, I thought that had loads of promise over what Intel and AMD were doing. I remember at the time people were shocked Apple dumped IBM in favor of Intel.
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GI4FZD

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I remember it well too!
cheers
Paul
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Walt - KZ1F

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William, sent it twice now.
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William Hemmingsen

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Got it this time
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Bob - W7KWS -

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William,

I'd really enjoy testing on a Note 3, if you are ready for feedback yet.

Thanks,
Bob@w7kws.com
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M0GVZ

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Hi William. I've been following this with great interest. The Panfall 6 video certainly looked like the kind of layout I would expect on a tablet version, possibly with the ability to switch to a Panfall 7 type based layout with some of the main controls down one side.

From what I can see it looks like it is reaching quite a complete application and certainly the Panfall 6 with DAX working would be something I would be well and truly willing to pay for. 

Projects like this always make me wish I'd chosen the software rather than hardware path with computers many years ago when I was faced with that particular fork in the road.

Thank you for all the work you're doing on this. 
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William Hemmingsen

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Thanks for the kind words.  While Dax works well, it suffers from the issues DAX had with SSDR 1.38, periodic choppy audio.  On a fast network this is very minimal, but I would like to get the OPUS remote audio working instead.

This app will most likely be fairly basic, as in a single slice, single panadapter, and phone only.  But that could change with time.  The main thing is "time", I just dont have any LOL

William
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Bob - W7KWS -

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Hi William,

My experience with VOIP on cellular networks is mixed depending on ping times so you might want to account for this as you work on Opus. A standard phone call to my rig works best from my AT&T cell phone as they have optimized this channel for voice & use the AMR codec which isn't too bad when faced with a noisy channel. CDMA (Verizon) works very poorly in the face of noise.

As for the data channel & VOIP, Verizon LTE is quite good at 30 to 60 msec. Ping times around my area. AT&T is OK @ 60+ msec. Cricket, which is an AT&T owned MVNO (Mobile Virtual Network Operator) on the same towers runs their data through one of several proxies as do most other MVNOs such as Straight Talk. I've seen ping times all over the place but usually in excess of 200 msec. At these delay times most SIP clients I've used won't register or, if they do, the connection is unstable. RemoteRig is useless on Straight Talk but very reliable on Verizon. Both RemoteRig & half a dozen SIP clients I've experimented with offer a variety of codec choices. I've tried them all. My favorite is G711u which is toll quality & pretty much lossless. It uses around 80 kbits/Sec.

By the way, I too will gladly purchase a copy of what you have achieved. I look forward to seeing it in the Play Store as soon as you are ready. You have certainly made a phenomenal start.

I love the CMD Micro & if this works as well, you can't miss.

Best regards,

Bob, W7KWS
(Edited)
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William Hemmingsen

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I added filter marks on the tune display.  A light opaque fill is between the lines.  Here is a quick video showing how they work and look.  Please excuse the bad video and the noise.  My son is playing his video game on a plasma TV.  URRGGHH those things are noisy!!!



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M0GVZ

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Well it certainly looks like you got over the problems you were having trying to work out how to do a waterfall a few weeks ago. There seems to be no stopping you now :D
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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Very nice, indeed!  

I heard a story of a plasma that was installed at a contest station before anyone knew what they were like.  When one of the ops decided to sit an watch TV for a little relief, the station owner yells "Hey who turned on the lawn mower!?!"
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William Hemmingsen

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LOL, it really destroys all bands.  Its the worst thing I have encountered.  He is not allowed to turn it on on contest weekends :)

But I'm to cheap to replace it LOL.  Luckily its just in his game room for occasional gaming.  The rest of the TV's have been replaced with new LED.

William
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William Hemmingsen

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These videos do not do the waterfall justice.  For some reason video cameras, wash out the waterfall colors, and over expose it.  The waterfall really looks good in person.
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William Hemmingsen

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Here is an HD video.  Colors still washed out, but better representation.    Audio you are hearing is DAX.  Still no luck with OPUS.  But DAX sounds real good.

Near the end of the video I am adjusting the MAX/MIN dbm which in my app adjust waterfall gain/black level.

(Edited)
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William Hemmingsen

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Here is a screenshot that better captures the Panfall display

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Alex - DH2ID, Elmer

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Looks great, William, but should say Panafall...;-)
(Edited)
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William Hemmingsen

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Doh!!

I just through stuff on the screen.  Not much rhyme or reason behind the layout now.
(Edited)
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W5XZ - dan

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hey william, will i be plugging my CMD micro into the android ??

great job !
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William Hemmingsen

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No, although I could make that happen, Its not exactly practical.

William
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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Looking at your spectrum display, it appears that each pixel in the display is repeated twice with the same value.  Are you telling the radio your correct display size and then correctly plotting what it sends you?
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William Hemmingsen

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Steve, Good eye, but still wonder how you saw that.  This is due to scaling.  I currently have a static X value or 1400, but my display is 2560.  I am just scaling the data to fit my screen.

I do however plan to eventually request the the panadapter x value base on actual screen pixel width, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Still wondering how in the world you could tell from the photo..LOL

William
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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Oh you know how it is -- you work with something a long time you can spot all kinds of things other people would miss.
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William Hemmingsen

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Since I have your attention,  I'm trying to get DAX TX working.  For some reason I just cant get it to work.. 

I form the payload of floating point -1:1.  I can play this data with the same decoder that is currently working to listen to DAX from the radio.

But for some reason the radio just does not seem to like it!  I created a VRT header with these hex bytes:

18d501078400000000001c2d543c03e3000000000000000000000000

Then append 1024 bytes of floating points.

I then send this to the radio on UDP 4994 (this is the port I use "
client udpport 4994")

I have verified dax=1 in TX setting, dax_tx=1 in slice settings,
and dax channel is set. But when I MOX I get no output at all.

I forced the UDP packets to the IP of my computer and was able to
decode them fine. Is there something in the VRT header that I'm
missing? I just copied the header used by DAX on my PC.

Wireshark classified my packets as VRT49 with correct class and stream ID, so I'm lost.

Any ideas?
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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We have a debug command to find out what the issue is, but it's not available in the code you have unfortunately.  It would identify what is happening to your VITA-49 packets.  We could look into making this code available somehow in the production code in the future, but I don't have a real good solution today.

Also, DAX is really the wrong way to do transmit code.  We will be adding an uncompressed TX/RX port for mic audio soon though.  This could be used instead of Opus if you like.
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William Hemmingsen

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Steve,

Very interesting!  Will this be a feature of 1.5 or before?  When you say uncompressed, will this be PCM or Floating point?

Thanks

William
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GI4FZD

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Its gone awful quiet here, hope all is well William...I updated my tab4 to lollipop the other day in eager anticipation..hihi
Cheers
Paul
gi4fzd
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William Hemmingsen

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To be honest, I have stalled out a bit on the Audio portion.  DAX RX works, but I can't seem to get TX to work.  My question above has gone unanswered.

I have not given up, just taking a step back and working on other projects for a bit
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GI4FZD

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Great stuff. I hope you will get the answer soon.Keep up the good work,an rx only version would nice too.
cheers
Paul
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M0GVZ

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Sometimes you need to walk away for a bit as you get to a point you can't see the wood for the trees. Inevitably on return the solution immediately presents itself usually accompanied by a slap on the forehead and calling oneself a muppet for not seeing it earlier.

You've gone a very long way in a short amount of time. 
(Edited)
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William Hemmingsen

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Thanks!  Yes I have stepped away and decided to spend my time building an engine instead.  I will get back to it again shortly.

Also kind of waiting to see what Steve was talking about above on a new uncompressed audio that will be coming out.
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Scott - WM7C

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I hope your engine is done.  :)
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William Hemmingsen

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Engine is done, but I'm still waiting on this new uncompressed audio solution Steve was talking about.

I have hit a wall with opus

William
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Bob - W7KWS -

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William,

Great see you back, we missed you. Hope you're your R&R was good!
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Alex - DH2ID, Elmer

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Hi William, nice to see you back here, love your pawprint ;-)
C'mon you opus programmers, help William to get his app ready....
I had a look here http://opus-codec.org/ , but I'm not much of a programmer,
did a bit of JAVA but not much more.
(Edited)
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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FYI we have the uncompressed audio working in the lab now, but it is designed primarily for use by a logger or voice keyer. It uses something like 40x the bandwidth of Opus. For a remote app, I recommend using Opus.
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Bob - W7KWS -

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William,

Is the Opus codec included in Android 5.0 any good for an intermediate solution until you get yours up?
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William Hemmingsen

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The android OPUS has very little documentation.  I am unable to get it to work.  Maybe once the documentation catches up.
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Bob - W7KWS -

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William,

I think I understand what you are facing here but I would encourage you to publish your work less the audio? There are many ways to deal with audio on the side & I think there would be a large appetite & appreciation for what you have achieved.

An example is Pocket RxTx and Pocket RxTx+ in the play store. It has a couple of bugs & its audio is is difficult but many of us love it. I use seperate audio & it works well.

Adding your work would be a fantistic step forward.

Thanks for your consideration,

Bob
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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Mark, I believe his source was published already.
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R2AGG

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hi friends on hobby!
very interested in the management of my flex6500 through android. tell me where I can download the version presented here?

Respect for author of project.
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Chris DL5NAM

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Check this tread and you will found the link. Only 3 pages ;-)
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R2AGG

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Chris,
I looked the all pages and found only the first version without waterfall and waveforms. Poke a finger in a message with the correct link.
I'd like to try on my Tab 10.5 ;)

Thanks,
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James Whiteway

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First version is all that's available. Panafall version has never been released.
James
WD5GWY
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Roy Finch

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Hi all this seems to have dried up. What a shame as there seems to be no android version of the app used on the iPad. Is this still a work in progress ?
Roy
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W5XZ - dan

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I hope so too, roy...but i'm NO programmer..

73, dan
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Bob KN4HH

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My Galaxy Tab 2 is jealous.  Guess I will have to keep my parallels Access account for a while longer. 
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mdjdmi

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This work showed a lot of promise but William seems to have gone on to other things. It's a shame because I think there are a lot of Android users that would pay for a polished app to operate their F6k series radios. I know I would. SO far, looks like K6TU has the only tablet (iPad) thing going.
73 de Arnie W8DU
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James Nelson

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There is a lot of us indeed that yearn for an Android solution with mouth watering Amoled tabs and phablets that very sleek.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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There is also the soon to be released DL8MRE app for iPad

The issue with Android is that unlike iOS which is consistent among its implementations and devices Android tends to be a dogs breakfast in that it varies greatly between editions and equipment vendors and even between models within a specific vendor.  So the reason you are less likely to see an Android emulation is that it ends up being a great deal of hard work for the developers not only to write the code, but also to make it work with different hardware vendors and models and then even more work to keep it running when Android inevitably changes...

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mdjdmi

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Thanks for that info and perspective Howard. I had never really thought about the difficulties in coding for all the different flavors or Android as compared to the relatively uniform flavor of IOS. It's a shame because the price difference between buying an Android tablet is substantial as compared to the price of an iPad, not to mention how much easier it is to interface hardware to an Android tablet.
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mdjdmi

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Where can I find out more about the DL8MRE app?
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GI4FZD

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try his qrz page for links
cheers
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mdjdmi

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Never mind, I found it. Looks awesome. Let's hope it does all it aspires to do! Too bad it is not expected until Q3 2016 or later.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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Howard, that is patently uninformed. Just as with iOS, new features are added, new code GUI linking is available. It goes forward not backwards. More FUD. And, yes i do write for Android, do you?
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Walt - KZ1F

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The way android development works is, externally, the developer specifies the target and source SDK levels. Just as with Java, C#, MFC, .NET, there are always functions that are deprecated. This means they are marked for future removal. However, the Android SDK comes with past version support such that if you have a program you want to be runnable on Android I (ice cream sandwich) but you are building it against Android N, in beta now, you specify that in you project environment and it just builds that way. If, on the other hand, you built an app with a floor of Android L, Lollipop, and an API introduced in Android Lollipop was used, user running Android K, KitKat, would be unable to run it. This is no different than SSDR can not run on .net 3.5. if the app was built to have a floor of Android K, it would run on K,LM, and N.
(Edited)
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EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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I would love an Android client!
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Walt - KZ1F

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XPSLib and XPSSDR make heavy use of java 8 features. If I were to move it to Android now I would need to run it through a post processor, retrolambda, to modify the byte code to change all lambda expressions to anonymous class invocation. That might not pick up all java 8 features in use. Android N, GA this fall, natively supports all of java 8 features so no kludges are required. Further, Google has native in-app purchase support such that the whole shack control version of XPSSDR would be available for subscription. For those interested, the reason it is not available now is linux Mac and Windows have no, or certainty no common in app purchase (licensing) support.
(Edited)
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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Walt, we also investigated doing Android work.  I talked with a friend that owns a mobile development company that works on Android and iOS, did research on forums, etc. and the universal complaints from developers were that code developed on one platform would not always run on another.  When we were serious about this, we investigated if we could solve the problem and we found companies that do nothing but test on all the platforms and tell developers where things do not work.  You know if there are companies springing up to solve the problem it is a real one.  The other complaint was that developers were not as able to charge as much for Android apps as for iOS apps.  This complaint wasn't as universal as the first but it was there.  I believe this is because Apple is skimming the margin from the cell phone market and the customers willing to pay more for the phone will also do this for apps, but this is my speculation.  But the Android dogs breakfast comment Howard made is the real deal.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Proof of the pudding...
For myself, I prefer writing code that is portable, which is what I've done.
As for debating this with Howard, I don't debate how something works with someone who's never done it
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IW7DMH, Enzo

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I would give a chance to Embarcadero Rad Studio that is the smartest and powerful development tool. It has also one of the best tech support. 
Development unification process is the real challenge today and sooner or later this aspect should be taken into great consideration.
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Walt - KZ1F

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By way of addendum. My comments were addressed to Howard's assertion. You (Steve) and I have already addressed what platforms FRS will support and why. That ship has sailed. Again, proof of the pudding... If somebody broke Android, which I did not believe people were allowed to do and still call it Android, I can not address that. I believe I have addressed how to build an app that runs on older releases of Android than that which it is built against. This is really the wrong forum, IMHO, to be discussing developing commercial grade software.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Back in the very early days of Java, before, say Java 5, the joke was Write Once, Debug Everywhere...the FUD put out by Microsoft as a slur on Write Once Run Everywhere. Java 1.0 - 1.4.3 was all considered Java 1. Starting with 5 they broke that and referred to the version as 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 soon as they were all, 'just that different' from Java v1.  This was because Swing, which used AWT did have issues with graphical widgets like mice which required OS specific implementations. This is why they developed SWT, Standard Widget Toolkit, which provided much fast and much better consistency across platforms, than AWT. IBM built their entire Eclipse environment around SWT, still Java BTW. Most developers think of Eclipse as a really good Integrated Development Environment (IDE). Eclipse, as IBM would tell folks, was a container for anything, or nothing at all. That means it was a container, not strictly a Java IDE. IBM also positioned Eclipse as a cross platform common container for RIA, (Rich Internet Applications). One could argue SSDR for Windows is an RIA, very powerful presentation graphics, fully internet capable. As Java evolved, it initially had a daughter project called JavaFX. JavaFX went through several generations. Now, JavaFX8 is now part and parcel part of the Java8 rt.jar, run time archive (think dll). So if what Steve was referring to is vintage 2005 or earlier, then yes there was some truth to that stmt then. So, as I had told Steve when he and I discussed this years ago, I am not questioning or trying to relitigate decisions made a long time ago when such decisions on the 6000 series was being made. But this is 2016 and the environment has shifted dramatically. IOS had an earlier start than did Android so naturally, especially initially, it would have been a bit more mature as an environment.
   So the Write Once, Debug everywhere FUD on Write Once, Run Everywhere, has been laid a relic. It never was terribly relevant as Sun wrote AWT and once SWT came along there was far greater viability in the cross platform development space.
   I would ask, especially those incensed, to understand that the reason I don't pontificate on what can and cannot be done with .NET and C# is because that is NOT my space. Designing and writing multi-platform systems IS.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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For anyone who would like to see how well a JavaFX8 app runs on their Android, I encourage you to download Ensemble8 to your Android from the PlayStore.
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Chris DL5NAM

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Walt, i install it. if i start i get always a stop message. it's not run here at my Android 6.0.1
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Walt - KZ1F

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I think I have been running it since 5.0 and now I am on 6.0.1. Hmmm. So what hapens with Marshmallow (V6) is apps as they are loaded get compiled into executable code..native code. So unlike when I ran that same app with 5.x it would start w/i a second or so. Now it takes a little longer. I also have 2GB of main memory and 32GB or external...as I develop on it. I also have a Nexus 9. I know James with a Nexus 7 ran the stuff William did FB. The app itself demos virtually every non-3D control available in JFX8. Another app that is fun, written in Java, for a pre-KitKat version of Android is Infinite Virtual Slide Rule. That is nice as it is a really good job on very high res graphics. Try googling your make/model Android and Ensemble8. Or, you can tell me and I can research it. It has always worked fine for me but this is the Android tablet I have. Does it stop and go back to the screen or just say stop and continue? Are you doing that on a tablet or phone? I never tried it on a phone. But, thanks for the feedback, even though I didn't write the app. It was an app I was serendipitously pointed to it to demo how every control in FX8 would look on an Android. I was very impressed. Infinite slide rule is impressive too, esp for those that recall using a slide rule.
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Walt - KZ1F

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For what it's worth, it runs on my wife's Nexus 7, which also has 2GB of main memory. That could be the issue, in the case of Ensemble8.
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Chris DL5NAM

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First try was on phone Samsung S6 (V6.0.1). I try Samsung Tablet (V4.xx) and it work well. Thanks
Photo of EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

EA4GLI - 8P9EH - Salvador

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Ensemble8 will not work on my LG G4 with Android 6
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Walt - KZ1F

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Huh? Well,that too is a phone, right? Just for grins, place the phone in landscape mode. One thing about doing native android apps is the configuration for display mode p/L, hi res etc. One can define it such that there isn't a portrait mode. That is a guess VB on my part, my phone is iOS.
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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So this shows how things work on Android and why folks don't develop for it.  Here's the financial side of the coin:  Few developers post their revenue, downloads, etc but the guys who wrote Monument Valley did:  Monument Valley by the Numbers  Note that iOS is only 43% of the downloads and 73% of the revenue.  Other developers, although not posting to this detail, have confirmed this with other applications.
Photo of Steve - N5AC

Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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So this shows how things work on Android and why folks don't develop for it.  Here's the financial side of the coin:  Few developers post their revenue, downloads, etc but the guys who wrote Monument Valley did:  Monument Valley by the Numbers  Note that iOS is only 43% of the downloads and 73% of the revenue.  Other developers, although not posting to this detail, have confirmed this with other applications.
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Greg - N8GD

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So, Android is like Windows in the respect that it has to work across multiple hardware platforms and different vendors' configurations of the OS, whereas iOS is works singularly across all Apple hardware platforms that it is designed for (not a surprise there!).  The one thing I have found, however, after owning both Android and iOS (Apple) devices is that apps written for iOS tend to force you to be running a fairly recent version of iOS, whereas Android is much more forgiving about allowing apps to run on much older versions of Android.  This seems a little odd, but perhaps once a developer gets an app running on Android, and allows for the "dogs breakfast" (as Howard puts it) it is more forgiving of differences among OSes.  Just an interesting observation.
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Walt - KZ1F

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Apps written for either IOS or Android, and yes, I have written apps for Android, are dependent on what device you want to run them on. Earlier, after Stu released his first Flex related app written in Objective-C, I tried to find it to load on my iPhone. Nowhere to be found. In talking with Stu, no it won't run on iPhone. Still IOS, but the device does matter. So in the case of Ensemble8, it doesn't appear to run on phones. That is the ONLY conclusion that can be drawn from above. Again, it's way easier to noodle why when you've actually written apps for either and understand the part of telling the OS what the device geometry is. I know ex-coworkers who now make their living writing apps for Android. BTW, I suspect an app for Android TV would not run on a tablet, much less a phone. Hopefully, that doesn't come as a surprise to anyone. This notion of "dogs breakfast' from someone with no experience writing for the platform, either for very early Android releases or the beta for Android N, due to GA this fall is questionable. No one on here seems to question why SSDR for Win doesn't run on .NET3.5. It doesn't. Does that mean SSDR is broken or .NET is a dog's breakfast? Of course not. Nor did that mean FRS shouldn't have ever released for .NET because SSDR does not work on ALL .NETs still out there. It's the same thing for Android or IOS.

Another little truth tidbit. The Android Studio IDE allows for multiple, a virtual myriad of virtual devices so an app under development can be tested by the developer. For instance, when I first started, I bought the Nexus 9. Before it arrived I used the Android Studio virtual Nexus 9 to test with, ditto for Samsung devices and Nexus 7 which was a completely different form factor than the Nexus 9.

Now, nothing in what I am saying is, nor should be taken as, resurrecting a discussion I started on here, likely two years ago which was continued in an email discussion with Steve, in excess of a year ago. Further, from my perspective, I am not trying to relitigate decisions FRS management made on what platform they were going to develop on when they were sizing how to design for SSDR. That was then, this is now. Just as .NET 4 is different than .NET 1.0, Android N is different than Android A. Then, now. The reality of it is, FRS made a decision. DONE! As far as Ensemble8 is concerned, the very same "dll" that was modified to run on Android also runs on Windows and Linux...the source code IS identical. But, is anybody actually advocating FRS start from scratch all over again? I'm not.

Just because I know someone who works for NASA does not mean I know how to design spacecrafts. Nor does it mean someone I used to work with that used to work for NASA knows what the current technology NASA is using or developing is and how transportable it is to a commercial market.

CA Technologies, an ex employer, has products that run on Android, as does Monster.com, another ex employer. Just because an app exists for Android does not mean it's necessarily available to the general public. Nor does it mean the app doesn't work. That would reflect badly on a corporate entity paying dividends to stock holders based upon their corporate customers believing they have a handle on technology.

I thought it was concluded this was an all Flex all the time, no space for discussions on Elecraft or ICOM radios or technology? Why are we talking about Android, a platform SSDR will never exist on?

Ensemble, runs in a browser as well.

Also, FWIW, I've tried to load Android apps on my tablet and gotten a message that the app was written for an Android phone and wouldn't be installed. I neither wrote nor published Ensemble8 so the fact the author didn't or didn't properly specify what devices it would/wouldn't run on is not a flaw in Android, any more than it is a flaw in .NET that SSDR won't run on .NET 3.x or 2.x etc. Nor is it damning that SSDR won't run on Windows XP. I think it's pretty cool one specifies, when describing the app to the IDE they can say it will work on Android K devices. My son-in-law's Android device maker never updated the device's version of Android so any newer app he downloads have to be configured at build time to support the old version of Android on his Samsung device. Again, from my perspective this is an academic discussion I entered due to a completely erroneous comment made by a fellow community member.
(Edited)
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Walt - KZ1F

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In both cases the developer get 70% of the purchase price with 30% going to handle the transaction and currency issues..This according to Apple as well as Google.
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KY6LA - Howard, Elmer

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Walt - KZ1F

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That's kind of neat, good job. I don't happen to have an IPad nor will I get one.
As I appear so fond of saying, that's why they invented chocolate, as not everybody prefers vanilla. Again, it's not a zero sum game.
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Steven Hess

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Standardize on one high performance yet price constrained tablet  https://shield.nvidia.com/store/tablet/k1 
It's running 6.0.1
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Kevin K4VD, Elroy

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The solution to an Android app for Flex Signature Series is not an ipad. That's an alternative. The solution is finding and backing the right person or team that understands how to program in the Android space and has some experience with SDR radios.
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James Nelson

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Buying an iPad for many me included is buying an appliance for one task only. Android apps don't always fit every device and the Google playstore informs you if a particular device is incompatible with the device. The android plus side is some very nice hardware is available many carrying oled display technology, memory card, impressive USB support and Linux style file directory management so surely an app compliant for a range of the most popular devices is in order. Possibly some pre-order stand up and be counted would get the show on the road ?
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Steve - N5AC, VP Engineering / CTO

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It's a roughly $50k investment to build this kind of app plus the ongoing support.  Our read is that there is insufficient demand to support the investment at this time (poor ROI).  Instead of us doing it, we continually offer assistance to those that have an interest and the time to do it.  Someone with good skills in this area could turn this into a nice side business or as an addition to a burgeoning app business.  This is the exact methodology that generated the iPhone/iPad app.
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James Nelson

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Yup .... I can see that side too luckily windows Tabs have now shrunk significantly in size to the ipad size so I have no need to go and buy an ipad for that task alone. For some that have left the restrictive iOS platform its not a popular move to buy another ipad . Lets keep the enthusiasm and discussion going without starting an android war.  All that windows bashing by linux enthusiats was an era best left behind as well. Anyway I'm first for a preorder LoL
(Edited)
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James Kennedy-WU5E

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I have a Android 8.0 verion phone will it ever work? Or so I need to switch to IPhone

Jim

WU5E

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James Whiteway

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Only if someone writes an Android app.
None as of yet that I know of.
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Andrea Vernice

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hi william 

can i get last releass of the app for the behringer cmd micro. all links on the community are not working. it will work with win 10?
and in remote?

also the android app , is no avaible in goole store? where can be downloaded?
it works only on tablet? i have adroid phone that has quite big display as small tables.

thanks for all replyes
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Wayne

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I have been wanting and looking for it also but none of the links work anymore.