Ever since the 6000 series radio were released, I feel aborted by Flex. No updates, no enhancements; forgotten and discarded. I'm speaking of the software support to the 5000. I know hardware doesn't last forever. I don't want to 'upgrade' to the 6500 since I will go through this all over again. Do you feel the same?
Posted 3 years ago
Neal - K3NC, Elmer
No I do not feel the same way.
No I do not feel that way, either.
I'm not a supporter of planned obsolescense from any company (Ex:
Microsoft) unless something is truely bad or dangerous. I'm sure Neal's experienced that.
It's a double edged sword. Unfortunately, a company almost has to do it to stay relevant and profitable. One side effect that I've observed over time, is that products tend to get cheaper in quality and become almost throw away. It's a royal PIA and even wasteful when that happens (Ex: HP printers or Walt's example of dish washers). I would never volunteeringly support a company that gets to that point.
I DO however second the work of, and am extremely thankful for Darren's effort in breathing life into PSDR. I was also feeling abandoned and that nobody really cared before he came on the project. I hadn't had my 3K for too long and was thinking that it was really kind of a waste. It's SDR! Not the other side where it is predominantly hardware.
If FR hasn't already, I would hope that they have (also) compensated Darren appropriately.
Just my thought.
It's a double edged sword. Unfortunately, a company almost has to do it to stay relevant and profitable. One side effect that I've observed over time, is that products tend to get cheaper in quality and become almost throw away. It's a royal PIA and even wasteful when that happens (Ex: HP printers or Walt's example of dish washers). I would never volunteeringly support a company that gets to that point.
I DO however second the work of, and am extremely thankful for Darren's effort in breathing life into PSDR. I was also feeling abandoned and that nobody really cared before he came on the project. I hadn't had my 3K for too long and was thinking that it was really kind of a waste. It's SDR! Not the other side where it is predominantly hardware.
If FR hasn't already, I would hope that they have (also) compensated Darren appropriately.
Just my thought.
Product (software) development is not an eternal project. What it is, is an expensive and time consuming project.. Can we really expect FRS to develop free software indefinitely? What needs to be recognized is that software is their intellectual property, which they decided to share with a third part developer, AND, provide some support to that third party. They are not being compensated, but they are indirectly supporting their legacy product. When MS dropped Windows XP, the file was closed. I owned a 5000 and it is still a very respectable radio with or without new software. FRS needs to be recognized for what they have done and NOT for what they are not doing.
PowerSDR 2.7.2 ke9ns Revision T4
KE9NS is updating, adding features etc... to PowerSDR for your 5000. He has the support of FlexRadio. Keep in mind PowerSDR is open source so anyone can modify if (you/they) wish.
your statement "I feel aborted by Flex. No updates, no enhancements; forgotten and discarded. I'm speaking of the software support to the 5000." not true.
KE9NS is updating, adding features etc... to PowerSDR for your 5000. He has the support of FlexRadio. Keep in mind PowerSDR is open source so anyone can modify if (you/they) wish.
your statement "I feel aborted by Flex. No updates, no enhancements; forgotten and discarded. I'm speaking of the software support to the 5000." not true.
Gerald - K5SDR (Official Rep) commented on a reply to this praise:
PowerSDR 2.7.2 ke9ns Revision R1
We are not shamed at all. We have been supporting and encouraging Darrin from the beginning of his efforts and have provided radios to him so that he can develop and test. I think that those who benefit from Darrin's work should compensate him accordingly.
There has not been a public mechanism to compensate Darren. At least that I am aware of. It's been mentioned in previous messages, but no action taken.
There is a huge difference. If someone took payment for supporting a code base, that implies a certain expectation. Where it's an open source project anybody can be making changes to it. Where there is no fiduciary obligation, Darren could decide he'd prefer to do something else and that's OK as anyone can pick up the mantle at any time. There is no ownership on open source projects, ergo open. This is distinctly different than with flexlib where FRS owns the code base.
Same Flex party line, then the slams from overly zealous Flex do-good'ers.
I've been complaining for +2yrs (when I got the F3K) that PwrSDR SSB DSP/AF is lame and near worthless ---- my IC-7000/746P/9100 canned DSP is far FAR better than PwrSDR multi-adjustments that never hit the mark.
Flex appears to be a CW company with no regards for SSB (my prime mode) and will NOT expend any more resources "TO MAKE WORK" the DSP SSB functional. If this is how Flex is going to support LEGACY products I'm not willing to invest in the 6K line to soon fall behind curve when they announce the 7K line (dumping 6K support like they did to 1.5/3/5K).
Sorry I'm not rich to follow the trend - but these are expensive radios and if I got the gist right Flex now charges for SmartSDR updates (doing the HRD crap).
p.s. I just acquired the IC-9100 due to PwrSDR DSP failure and I wanted a full SAT radio too. I did pick up a cheap used 5K - DSP is no better than the 3K (I'm now dumping the 3K and likely the 5K, going back to TT-Pegasus SDR with far better SSB DSP).
Kuby, N6JSX/8, MS-EET
I've been complaining for +2yrs (when I got the F3K) that PwrSDR SSB DSP/AF is lame and near worthless ---- my IC-7000/746P/9100 canned DSP is far FAR better than PwrSDR multi-adjustments that never hit the mark.
Flex appears to be a CW company with no regards for SSB (my prime mode) and will NOT expend any more resources "TO MAKE WORK" the DSP SSB functional. If this is how Flex is going to support LEGACY products I'm not willing to invest in the 6K line to soon fall behind curve when they announce the 7K line (dumping 6K support like they did to 1.5/3/5K).
Sorry I'm not rich to follow the trend - but these are expensive radios and if I got the gist right Flex now charges for SmartSDR updates (doing the HRD crap).
p.s. I just acquired the IC-9100 due to PwrSDR DSP failure and I wanted a full SAT radio too. I did pick up a cheap used 5K - DSP is no better than the 3K (I'm now dumping the 3K and likely the 5K, going back to TT-Pegasus SDR with far better SSB DSP).
Kuby, N6JSX/8, MS-EET
@ Kuby
I know very little about software development, but I suspect it reaches a point where the amount of effort required increases exponentially to bring about even small improvements.
I have followed FRS's growth / business practices since the 5k. To me, they have consistently presented themselves as honest and reliable. I have never gotten the impression that they are in business to milk the customer. Paying for software improvements seems fair especially when one considers all the work that takes place to make it happen.
Finally, if your current radio does not perform as well as others then get the other. It really is that simple.
I know very little about software development, but I suspect it reaches a point where the amount of effort required increases exponentially to bring about even small improvements.
I have followed FRS's growth / business practices since the 5k. To me, they have consistently presented themselves as honest and reliable. I have never gotten the impression that they are in business to milk the customer. Paying for software improvements seems fair especially when one considers all the work that takes place to make it happen.
Finally, if your current radio does not perform as well as others then get the other. It really is that simple.
(Edited)
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
_large.jpg)
Flex is what it is, a great many positives and a few not so positive.
When I bought the 5000 I expected advances in software to go well beyond what they did. I was fooled, but I bought the 6300 figuring it's time would be about the same as the 5000 so I would not be surprised again. Then came Maestro a great product, but I thought there would not be a one year pause in development of 2.0 while Maestro was being developed. I won't use the word fooled but I was disappointed that there is no 2.0 I am looking at other products now but no one is working on a WAN network other than Flex. I have my doubts if there will ever be a 2.0, not so much that Flex won't try but the problems for WAN far exceed LAN. I have a KX3 and PX3 and rarely use my 6300 anymore, just too much of a PIA to keep it working (random re-boots, having to reconfigure DAX, CAT, no CW copy and the KX3/PX3 just works (both Flex and Elecraft are great to work with)
When I bought the 5000 I expected advances in software to go well beyond what they did. I was fooled, but I bought the 6300 figuring it's time would be about the same as the 5000 so I would not be surprised again. Then came Maestro a great product, but I thought there would not be a one year pause in development of 2.0 while Maestro was being developed. I won't use the word fooled but I was disappointed that there is no 2.0 I am looking at other products now but no one is working on a WAN network other than Flex. I have my doubts if there will ever be a 2.0, not so much that Flex won't try but the problems for WAN far exceed LAN. I have a KX3 and PX3 and rarely use my 6300 anymore, just too much of a PIA to keep it working (random re-boots, having to reconfigure DAX, CAT, no CW copy and the KX3/PX3 just works (both Flex and Elecraft are great to work with)
"but I thought there would not be a one year pause in development of 2.0 while Maestro was being developed."
^This is a complete assumption by you.
Its unfortunate you also are of the opinion that there will ever be a 2.0 release.
^This is a complete assumption by you.
Its unfortunate you also are of the opinion that there will ever be a 2.0 release.
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
In the last 12 months I count something like 5 (FIVE) SmartsSDR update releases:
version 1.4.16 - June 2015
version 1.5.1 - October 2015
version 1.6.17 January 2016
version 1.6.21 February 2016
version 1.7.30 May 2016
As version 1.4.xx had only been release before Dayton 2015 by a month, I would include the version 1.4.xx upgrade to the versions 1.5.xx, 1.6.xx, and 1.7.xx major upgrades.
And all while building out the SmartSDR Ecosystem with the birthing of the Maestro!
Not too shabby of a series of upgrades!
73
Steve K9ZW
Burt your comments are completely unfounded, but your opinions.
With all fairness to Burt, "completely unfounded" and personal opinions are the most common type of post here. Burts are *no* less valid than any others posted.
(Edited)
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
Opinion never should replace factual information.
It is an opinion whether something might or might not happen in the future.
It is a falsehood when the facts of history are denied.
They extreme examples to help one understand this area:
An acceptable opinion could be a statement that in your opinion one's kids are unlikely to marry before they are thirty.
An falsehood would be to say it was your opinion that you were never born and didn't exist.
Assertive statements lacking the "in my opinion " warning to readers invite factual challenges. Seems to be a hobby in our hobby to do this (in my opinion!).
73
Steve K9ZW
It is an opinion whether something might or might not happen in the future.
It is a falsehood when the facts of history are denied.
They extreme examples to help one understand this area:
An acceptable opinion could be a statement that in your opinion one's kids are unlikely to marry before they are thirty.
An falsehood would be to say it was your opinion that you were never born and didn't exist.
Assertive statements lacking the "in my opinion " warning to readers invite factual challenges. Seems to be a hobby in our hobby to do this (in my opinion!).
73
Steve K9ZW
n9skm and Bill instead of saying my "comments are completely unfounded, This is a complete assumption by you", tell me the facts instead of general roundhouse insults. In other words do what you say I am not doing, source your comments.
I totally feel like you. got my f3k , one update about a month after owning it and since then. nothing from flex. I do understand that after sometimes company stop supporting there stuff. But in my case it was less then a year after I got the radio. If Flex was looking at dropping developement on the f3k they should have said it. I would have shoosen a newer rig. that is what is making me sad. Still love why f3k but next time I buy a radio. Not sure it will be a flex.
(Edited)
Pierre, consider the reasons for Flex stopping updates on PSDR.
First off they still continue to support all their older radios. If you call or write them with a problem, they will still offer tech support. And many new updates have been coming out lately, with the help of Flex by a third party.
Second, The PSDR came to the end of the road. The things that are and can be done in SSDR could not be done in PSDR code. Wide band stuff for instance.
Third, the new 6000's because of the way it is created needed a new software.
And, anything Flex did to improve PSDR was used buy other radio's free. that is why Anan is were it is now, they had a free software to use and they have built on it.
for you it was bad timing I understand that, but that is how any of this tech stuff works.
So to never buy Flex because you feel they have done you wrong,,I just can't see it sorry.
First off they still continue to support all their older radios. If you call or write them with a problem, they will still offer tech support. And many new updates have been coming out lately, with the help of Flex by a third party.
Second, The PSDR came to the end of the road. The things that are and can be done in SSDR could not be done in PSDR code. Wide band stuff for instance.
Third, the new 6000's because of the way it is created needed a new software.
And, anything Flex did to improve PSDR was used buy other radio's free. that is why Anan is were it is now, they had a free software to use and they have built on it.
for you it was bad timing I understand that, but that is how any of this tech stuff works.
So to never buy Flex because you feel they have done you wrong,,I just can't see it sorry.
And you still have available updates from KE9NS. It is fairly uncommon for a company to announce they are discontinuing a product before it happens.
What features is the radio lacking that you would like to have added that the updates are needed?
What features is the radio lacking that you would like to have added that the updates are needed?
Steve, I don't make use of most the features KE9NS has added, but I Like a few, such as auto black control on the panafall. And when clicking on CPU it brings up all kinds of info about the temp, time Volts. And a few others,,he does a great job.
Bill as much other company did use a free software, flex also took what the community did for free , so they also got some stuff from it.. Dont make me cry on that. they also took the decison to use that software to promote there hardware with a working setup. Then they decided to part from it.. first by using a propriatary firewire /usb simulation interface. thenby swithching to ssdr. they are also where they are cause of the free software..
(Edited)
Steve, in software development, it is very common for a company to pre-announce when they will drop support for something. They have a responsibility to their customers to let them transition to the next version of what have you.
Pierre. It was Flex, Gerald, who wrote PSDR. Long hours in his basement, he had another person working with him, can't remember who it was. They worked day and night on it. That is were it started. And they made it open source. PSDR was at one time only a Flex thing, later other people began using it for free.
(Edited)
Yes and some other did wrote part of the code and found bugs.. Flex did gain from that.
So, as to the point, I can't see where Flex has done anyone wrong by moving to SSDR. Considering the 1500, 3000, and the 5000 are still fully supported.
(Edited)
supported.. not upgraded.. that is not what you expect when you buy an sdr radio that is supposed to be the cutting edge technology.. You expect to have a fonctional hardware platform out of bug when you buy a standard radio. when you buy an SDR and pay the extra for it, you expect more then what a regular hardware radio will give you.. I am even ready to pay for new stuff.. it is not a mather of cash. it is a mather of being drop from the upgrading path. The best selling point of SDR radio is the fact that if new subroutine become available to help in some way they can be implemented in the radio.. Now this is not true anymore with PSDR. I know the limitation of the hardware I dont ask to have 25 receiver on 7 band while txing on 3 other. That the hardware platform cant do it.. But a better dsp system to pull out of the noise the week signal I want to catch.. that could be done.. But not by flex..
@ Pierre
"If Flex was looking at dropping developement on the f3k they should have said it. "
Companies have gone bankrupt doing this. They say that an enhanced product will be released next year and so, everybody stops buying from them. Their cashflow dries up and you do not see the next version.
I do feel your pain though. I do not have a solution for it either unfortunately. It is a risk we all take in one form or another when buying something.
If Flex folded tomorrow, I would have an expensive box that I could not sell, BUT it would still be a fine radio that would work.
I bought my Flex 6300 about a year and a half ago. Flex gave the SDR world a fine piece of software by making PSDR open source. Somebody has taken up the challenge of continuing development with, and this is the important bit, Flex's full co-operation.
"If Flex was looking at dropping developement on the f3k they should have said it. "
Companies have gone bankrupt doing this. They say that an enhanced product will be released next year and so, everybody stops buying from them. Their cashflow dries up and you do not see the next version.
I do feel your pain though. I do not have a solution for it either unfortunately. It is a risk we all take in one form or another when buying something.
If Flex folded tomorrow, I would have an expensive box that I could not sell, BUT it would still be a fine radio that would work.
I bought my Flex 6300 about a year and a half ago. Flex gave the SDR world a fine piece of software by making PSDR open source. Somebody has taken up the challenge of continuing development with, and this is the important bit, Flex's full co-operation.
(Edited)
Ok I see what your saying, but not but not all fair comments.
Because the sales were not there, made little sense to keep updating the PSDR and not for other companies to use.. A very expensive project. But good news is KE9NS has picked it up and is doing really nice stuff with PSDR, and this is fully supported by flex.
I hope you are taking advantage of this.
I think if you talk to KE9NS about what you would like to see done, he will let you know if he can, noise mitigation as you said could improve.
There are others talking to him now ,helping him.
Because the sales were not there, made little sense to keep updating the PSDR and not for other companies to use.. A very expensive project. But good news is KE9NS has picked it up and is doing really nice stuff with PSDR, and this is fully supported by flex.
I hope you are taking advantage of this.
I think if you talk to KE9NS about what you would like to see done, he will let you know if he can, noise mitigation as you said could improve.
There are others talking to him now ,helping him.
yes, every company can fold.. but that is not the case right now.. And yes company did fold cause they did not manage to tell there customer that they need to change platform or other thing.. but other did it with even more support from there customer cause they were still supporting there base.. Flex did a bitter sweet half of that, they still "support' the soft in case of new OS or other stuff like that. but they dont support implementing new stuff that could be done. cause implementing a dsp routine or other such stuff can be done multi platform. but it was there choice of not doing this.
Yes they do support new stuff, that is what your missing, they work with him and helping with his upgrades to PSDR, He is doing the hard work and Flex is helping in any way he needs. This allows flex to roll along on SSDR with out putting man hours on PSDR,,but the outcome is the same,,it is being updated all the time right now.
And if you had looked into things better you would have noticed all the info on the plans Flex released on the slowdown and stopping releases to PSDR, I knew it was coming,,why didn't you?
You have nothing to complain about here, do you really think they should keep paying a tone of money upgrading something that other companies will enjoy?
And if you had looked into things better you would have noticed all the info on the plans Flex released on the slowdown and stopping releases to PSDR, I knew it was coming,,why didn't you?
You have nothing to complain about here, do you really think they should keep paying a tone of money upgrading something that other companies will enjoy?
<<< I am even ready to pay for new stuff.. it is not a mather of cash. >>>
So...belly up to the bar and pay for it then. Flex has new and refurbed 6k radios ready to ship, as we speak. And... you will be very impressed with the predicted update life cycle. that's pretty much the crux of it all....
So...belly up to the bar and pay for it then. Flex has new and refurbed 6k radios ready to ship, as we speak. And... you will be very impressed with the predicted update life cycle. that's pretty much the crux of it all....
yup and trow the money I already given.. Think you are missing the point Ken.
I completely hear your point Pierre, I just don't understand what you would like Flex to do to make you happy... while still maintaining a viable business model ? I think the writing relevant to this is, and has been, on the wall for awhile. Further...I'm not sure where you are located, but if the price is reasonable, I would consider buying your legacy radio from you, if indeed you would like to sell it & move up. Like Ken (NM9P) and others, I'm kinda sorry I sold my F3K now that Darren is updating PSDR regularly. I really like PSDR ! IMO having both Legacy & 6K radios would be the ultimate. Or maybe I should finish building the SDR 1000 that is in the drawer...
Simply put. Just really continu updating the psdr software as new routine are available. in the limit of the hardware. computer were much slower 10 years ago, and psdr was bieng developed and it was working pretty well. now we have 10 core cpu that are available, I am sure there are more stuff the software can do now. So yes I am sure we could have better dsp now then we could just 3 years ago.
Pierre,
It has to stop somewhere. It has now stopped. The End.
It has to stop somewhere. It has now stopped. The End.
Well, out of all this chatter one thing sticks out like a sore thumb. The fact that FRS did not tell us their plans regarding software updates and I dont think they have announced it on their website yet, for all to see. Perhaps they should put it on their website in plain english, lay it all out for all to see, so that we all know where we stand. Having done that, lets see how their sales figures progress from that moment onwards.
(Edited)
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
FRS has been so transparent on the End-of-Life of the 5000 and later 3000, and the development switch to the SmartSDR products, and so much information in the hobby's media, reflectors, newsletters and... The FRS website, that certainly you jest in implying this is some sort of secret?
I'll let you in on another secret, Ford discontinued support on the Model T! Not on their website! And they did the same on the Model A! Gasp, do you think people buying new Explorers should be told??!!
FRS does list the EOL dates of the 5000 and 3000 on its website, though they sneakily skip mentioning the EOL of the earlier 1000.
Again kudos to KE9NS for his work, but be clear that FRS continues to support a stable mature version of PowerSDR beyond which there has for years been no promise of additional FRS direct further development of PowerSDR.
73
Steve
K9ZW
I'll let you in on another secret, Ford discontinued support on the Model T! Not on their website! And they did the same on the Model A! Gasp, do you think people buying new Explorers should be told??!!
FRS does list the EOL dates of the 5000 and 3000 on its website, though they sneakily skip mentioning the EOL of the earlier 1000.
Again kudos to KE9NS for his work, but be clear that FRS continues to support a stable mature version of PowerSDR beyond which there has for years been no promise of additional FRS direct further development of PowerSDR.
73
Steve
K9ZW
Steve, while there are still f1500,f5000 and f3000's being sold new from shops then its only right. I would think that there are still may of them in stock around the world. Another is whether the sales people at these shops would tell potential buyers that their rig is not only obsolete but that software upgrades have stopped from the company, is debatable
73
John
73
John
(Edited)
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
@John
Did you get anywhere on your own efforts to update PowerSDR?
https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/flex1500-software-upgrade
Was pretty clear that you bought a second hand 3000 to add to your 1500 at some time after you'd discussed rolling your own PowerSDR upgrade about a year ago.
AFAIK there have been no new 3000 since 2014 and no new 5000 since 2013.
The FRS dealer network is selling used 3000/5000s taken as trade, and not running promotions of New Old Stock 3000/5000. Doesn't seem to be any quantity of NOS 3000/5000s out there when folks were trying to find radios.
73
Steve K9ZW
(Edited)
At least PSDR is open source and luckily somebody has taken up the baton and decided to run with it. SSDR is closed source and once Flex decides that SSDR has come to the end of the road, that is it unless the source is released.
(Continued from post above...)
Any non-SDR rig will work until components are no longer available for repair. It is a bit like cars. Must of the modern electronics in cars have been placed not for safety or pollution control, but for obsolescence. Will there be any examples of today's cars being on the road in 50 years' time? I would say that it is MUCH less likely than those 50 year old cars currently on our roads. A minor 'fender-bender' makes an air bag or two fire, and the car is scrapped due to the cost of the airbags and no other reason.
Any non-SDR rig will work until components are no longer available for repair. It is a bit like cars. Must of the modern electronics in cars have been placed not for safety or pollution control, but for obsolescence. Will there be any examples of today's cars being on the road in 50 years' time? I would say that it is MUCH less likely than those 50 year old cars currently on our roads. A minor 'fender-bender' makes an air bag or two fire, and the car is scrapped due to the cost of the airbags and no other reason.
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
End of the Road?
Your radio would keep running as long as there were net-aware HUI devices that could run a flavor of SmartSDR Software.
No different than if you decided to no upgrade to a new (paid for) major point revision, the old software keeps rolling.
Or perhaps you meant something along the lines of "If company XYZ stops developing product ABC, that then there will be no new product ABC versions after they stop"?
PowerSDR had economic and architecture limitations that ended paid development perhaps earlier than liked, but it was still a ten year product cycle.
Why would we expect anything less from SmartSDR, and perhaps much longer since the commercialization issues that foreshortened the earlier product have been resolved by keeping the design proprietary?
We cannot expect to have our cake and eat it too! Either the security of having a Software Firm (FRS) develop commercially future SmartSDR or having an Open Source SmartSDR that would end incentive to commercially develop it.
73
Steve K9ZW
And the problem is?
You can't expect SSDR to be open to all, that is just silly.
Not only that, there are very few out there that would be able to work on the code of SSDR even if it was open source. Some claim they could, but that's dreaming.
It will be several years before SSDR runs out of steam, the code allows them to do many more things yet, I bet there are lots of things still to come and we will all go WOW.
You can't expect SSDR to be open to all, that is just silly.
Not only that, there are very few out there that would be able to work on the code of SSDR even if it was open source. Some claim they could, but that's dreaming.
It will be several years before SSDR runs out of steam, the code allows them to do many more things yet, I bet there are lots of things still to come and we will all go WOW.
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
Guy,
SmartSDR has an open API with more developers actively working with it than all combined in the history of PowerSDR. Two 6700R model radios will launch on a SpaceX rocket in July to be loaded onto the International Space Station using software developed by a system integration using only our API interfaces including the Waveform API. Another SI built an ionospheric sounder that operates on just millawatts using a FLEX-6500. They did everything with little support from us.
There are already multiple ham GUI clients and utility apps on the market and more coming. There are also multiple loggers that support the API and more coming.
None of this was even possible on the open source PowerSDR platform. PowerSDR is a "fat client" that evolved like spaghetti code over many years without an overarching design. SmartSDR was designed from the start with a long term architectural vision. With SmartSDR the radio IS a server with a 100% open control and waveform API in human readable format. This is unique in all of ham radio. You see only the tip of the iceberg. In practical terms SmartSDR is more open than PowerSDR ever was because the programming interface is well defined within the hierarchy of the architecture.
SmartSDR has an open API with more developers actively working with it than all combined in the history of PowerSDR. Two 6700R model radios will launch on a SpaceX rocket in July to be loaded onto the International Space Station using software developed by a system integration using only our API interfaces including the Waveform API. Another SI built an ionospheric sounder that operates on just millawatts using a FLEX-6500. They did everything with little support from us.
There are already multiple ham GUI clients and utility apps on the market and more coming. There are also multiple loggers that support the API and more coming.
None of this was even possible on the open source PowerSDR platform. PowerSDR is a "fat client" that evolved like spaghetti code over many years without an overarching design. SmartSDR was designed from the start with a long term architectural vision. With SmartSDR the radio IS a server with a 100% open control and waveform API in human readable format. This is unique in all of ham radio. You see only the tip of the iceberg. In practical terms SmartSDR is more open than PowerSDR ever was because the programming interface is well defined within the hierarchy of the architecture.
That is awesome information!!! Sometimes we miss the forest because of the trees. Truly the flex 6000 series is in it's infancy with a lot of room to grow!
Thanks,
Joe
WD5Y
Thanks,
Joe
WD5Y
Gerald,
Thanks for that post which puts in one place for what the future holds for the SSDR system. Maybe Flex should consider hosting these client and utility apps? Having them in one place would let people see what was available as users and stimulates sales. Development would also be stimulated.
In the flight sim world, it was not possible for MSoft to host the third party aircraft and scenery as there was so much of it. One person would produce many aircraft and similarly scenery developers were also proliferative.
Thanks for that post which puts in one place for what the future holds for the SSDR system. Maybe Flex should consider hosting these client and utility apps? Having them in one place would let people see what was available as users and stimulates sales. Development would also be stimulated.
In the flight sim world, it was not possible for MSoft to host the third party aircraft and scenery as there was so much of it. One person would produce many aircraft and similarly scenery developers were also proliferative.
Steve K9ZW, Elmer
Gerald - K5SDR, Employee
@Joe with no call
Facts:
1. I personally started development of PowerSDR (then called SDRConsole) in 1999 and FlexRadio launched in 2003).
2. FlexRadio as a company performed 11 years of continuous open source development at its expense. With the exception of the DSP module ddtdsp, there is only a tiny amount of source code contributed by volunteer open source developers. Ddtdsp development was funded in part by the US government.
3. We announced End of Manufacturing of the FLEX-5000 in May of 2013 and the FLEX-3000 in September of 2014. We have not shipped new units since those dates. This information has been on our website since that time.
4. We have been completely transparent about the support of our products both in updating their status on our website and many communications here and in other venues as Steve referenced just above this post for example. This is VERY old news.
5. We continue to service and support all of our radios. In fact I saw a SDR-1000 in the repair shop this week being repaired. We ceased manufacturing of the SDR-1000 nine years ago. The oldest units are now 13 years old. We won't be able to repair them forever but we still do so far. I frequently meet customers who tell me they are still using and enjoying their SDR-1000 that still runs on PowerSDR.
6. Quality software development is VERY expensive.
7. No amateur radio manufacturer promises to provide continuous free software updates to their radios forever. I am not aware of any competitor that has ever provided significant improvements after they ceased manufacturing. FlexRadio never promised to do that either. However we did that at our expense for about 11 years on PowerSDR.
8. Other companies use the free open source PowerSDR software we developed to compete against us without their company having any internal software engineering expense.
9. As stated multiple times on the community, we are providing direct engineering support to Darrin in his work on PowerSDR.
10. SmartSDR is a long term architecture with an open API and over 100 developers signed up doing cool things. It is completely based on the Internet protocol, which is likely to outlive everyone reading this post. When we start charging for software at an appropriate time in the future, we will be incentivized to develop things customers are willing to pay for. The fact that SmartSDR is not open source incentivizes us to continue development since we don't give it to our competitors for free.
The bottom line: Free open source ham radio software development in perpetuity is a "Going out of Business model."
Those are the facts reiterated here once again for the public record.
73,
Gerald
Facts:
1. I personally started development of PowerSDR (then called SDRConsole) in 1999 and FlexRadio launched in 2003).
2. FlexRadio as a company performed 11 years of continuous open source development at its expense. With the exception of the DSP module ddtdsp, there is only a tiny amount of source code contributed by volunteer open source developers. Ddtdsp development was funded in part by the US government.
3. We announced End of Manufacturing of the FLEX-5000 in May of 2013 and the FLEX-3000 in September of 2014. We have not shipped new units since those dates. This information has been on our website since that time.
4. We have been completely transparent about the support of our products both in updating their status on our website and many communications here and in other venues as Steve referenced just above this post for example. This is VERY old news.
5. We continue to service and support all of our radios. In fact I saw a SDR-1000 in the repair shop this week being repaired. We ceased manufacturing of the SDR-1000 nine years ago. The oldest units are now 13 years old. We won't be able to repair them forever but we still do so far. I frequently meet customers who tell me they are still using and enjoying their SDR-1000 that still runs on PowerSDR.
6. Quality software development is VERY expensive.
7. No amateur radio manufacturer promises to provide continuous free software updates to their radios forever. I am not aware of any competitor that has ever provided significant improvements after they ceased manufacturing. FlexRadio never promised to do that either. However we did that at our expense for about 11 years on PowerSDR.
8. Other companies use the free open source PowerSDR software we developed to compete against us without their company having any internal software engineering expense.
9. As stated multiple times on the community, we are providing direct engineering support to Darrin in his work on PowerSDR.
10. SmartSDR is a long term architecture with an open API and over 100 developers signed up doing cool things. It is completely based on the Internet protocol, which is likely to outlive everyone reading this post. When we start charging for software at an appropriate time in the future, we will be incentivized to develop things customers are willing to pay for. The fact that SmartSDR is not open source incentivizes us to continue development since we don't give it to our competitors for free.
The bottom line: Free open source ham radio software development in perpetuity is a "Going out of Business model."
Those are the facts reiterated here once again for the public record.
73,
Gerald
Ken - NM9P, Elmer
Thanks, Gerald.
As I have seen Darrin's excellent work continuing on PSDR and the support FRS has given to him, it ALMOST makes me wish I hadn't sold my 1500!
But I am really enjoying my 6500 instead! And I am looking forward to the many new things to come!
Keep up the good work!
Ken - NM9P
As I have seen Darrin's excellent work continuing on PSDR and the support FRS has given to him, it ALMOST makes me wish I hadn't sold my 1500!
But I am really enjoying my 6500 instead! And I am looking forward to the many new things to come!
Keep up the good work!
Ken - NM9P
Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
Should that not be V 2.8 and not 1.8 Tim ?
Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
Yep, that was a typo. My bad. It is version 2.8 and I edited my reply. Thanks for the heads up (I need to stop "octo-tasking" at the end of the day HI HI)
(Edited)
Tim - W4TME, Customer Experience Manager
