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Will version 1.5 have a completed multimode squelch

Norm - W7CK
Norm - W7CK Member ✭✭
edited June 2020 in SmartSDR for Windows
I'm really hoping version 1.5 has a proper squelch function.  Every rig I have has a squelch that works on all modes.  The existing FM squelch really needs some work too.  It is constantly breaking squelch and filling the room with a loud burst of static, then goes silent again. I don't think a properly operating multi-mode squelch function is too much to ask for.

Norm

Completed · Last Updated

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Answers

  • K6OZY
    K6OZY Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    +Like!
  • Stan VA7NF
    Stan VA7NF President Surrey Amateur Radio Communications Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    Glad someone else has that problem with existing squelch.  It is like a relaxation oscillator in that the closer you are to signal level the more frequently it breaks squelch.
  • Dave Dave
    Dave Dave Member ✭✭
    edited August 2015

    Tim says 1.5 will NOT have Squelch ....... I simply cant believe ANY radio, especially one that will receive multiple signals don't have friggin squelch !

    Squelch is to EASY to write .... all you do is mute according to meter reading.

    Im starting to think the flex has tubes ...... back to the stone age.

    Ive talked 2 people outta buying flex till they get squelch, I had to show one guy on mine because he didn't believe me, he said that's crazy, I agree!

  • KY6LA_Howard
    KY6LA_Howard La Jolla, CA. Paris and Sablet FranceMember ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Yours Is an Interesting perspective I can't remember when I have ever used squelch on HF SSB On ALL digital modes I totally mute the audio as there is no point listening to the sound. On the extremely rare occasion I do CW, I mute the sound and use CWskimmer since CW is just another slow digital mode. Which I guess leaves FM where I do use squelch occasionally but not enough to matter to me. As Tim stated. It's on the LIST. Definitely not at the top as there are many other things that have much higher desirably to more people. Of course, you are shooting yourself in the foot by talking potential customers out of buying a Flex as you are only losing potential votes to push squelch higher on the list.
  • Dave Dave
    Dave Dave Member ✭✭
    edited August 2015

    My wording wasn't so good ..... neither considered no squelch acceptable, both assumed it would have squelch like any other radio does, both like me tried to run demo software before buying but couldn't find it.

    Digital just mute sure.

    I find plenty people that feel like me, I cant imagine listening to multiple hf all day with no squelch.

    Many, like me have more then one freq they like to monitor and listen for friends.

  • Steve K9ZW
    Steve K9ZW Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016

    What demo software?

    Did I miss this?

    73

    Steve K9ZW

  • Bill -VA3WTB
    Bill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Dave, you did Flex and yourself a disservice, all because what you want is not within your timeline of what you feel should happen. Your friends just lost an opportunity to have a wonderful performing radio with or without squelch.
    You along with some others forget this radio is in development, so as this goes we wait for things to improve step by step, most understand this.
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited June 2020
    I'd like to better understand the use cases for squelch on HF, as I am also one who has never used squelch on HF in my 40 years of hamming.  If this is about noise mitigation rather than making HF sound like FM, then I personally find that adjusting AGC-T is a more effective control.
  • Richard McClelland, AA5S
    Richard McClelland, AA5S Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    You were licensed three months and seventeen days before me.  That makes you an old-timer.
  • Mark_W3II
    Mark_W3II Mark W3II Member ✭✭
    edited February 2018
    The staff at Flex Radio are hard at work on many feature / function items and have been transparent on what they are working on. When there is functionality desired which is not currently in the product many Flex'ers have provided add-on programs and utilities to close the gaps. It would be great if every feature / function desired was part of SmartSDR. My goal is not to start a debate on what features make more sense or are easy to implement. It is to point out just such a feature exists in my FRStack program, I called it "SSB Meter Level Mute".

    https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/frstack-1-4-7-adds-scanning-band-edge-beep-band-use...

    You may already be aware of this but I want to make sure the Flex Community knew. I appreciate and learn something new from the Flex Community every week.

    73, Mark
  • James Whiteway
    edited February 2018
    While I don't use squelch on HF, (other than my CB radio in my big truck.) I do understand why some might want it. Like Dave, he monitors two frequencies at once. While talking on one, with a squelch set on another slice receiver, he would hear nothing from the second receiver until it's squelch broke due to a signal strong enough to break past the level set in the second slice. James WD5GWY
  • Burt Fisher
    Burt Fisher Member ✭✭
    edited August 2016
    I asked a rep at an ARRL convention about a filter to filter out contests, he pointed to the power button.
  • Bill -VA3WTB
    Bill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Problem is, that filters everything out as well....
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited December 2016
    The ultimate brick wall filter ;-)
  • Dan -- KC4GO
    Dan -- KC4GO Member
    edited November 2016
              I for one do more than DX and Contest. I spend some time monitoring Utility, Aviation, Marine, Military and other HF Frequencies. It would be nice to Squelch them and only hear the transmissions. Also provides easy way to control scanning of a list of HF frequencies (I do find it intersting that Flex has addressed Squelch and level in the memory for all frequencies stored). Note FRStack has a form of scanning built into the new release but had to build his own and use the slice Mute to control the audio based on meter reading.                    AGC-T is not a sub for Squelch in any case. I also like to monitor various Ham frequencies for activity that doesn't mean I wish to listen to white noise all day long.
              When I travel in my RV after the close of the RV Service net on 7191 at 09:00 EST I will leave my TS-480 on frequency and set the squelch so if some of my fellow travelers pop in I'll hear them without listening to all the noise. I'm looking forward to taking the FLEX 6500 mobile this fall for several trips. 

    Tim, I hope this helps you to understand those of use the Flex 6000 in other ways have for Squelch. And don't get me wrong The 6500 is the best RX I have ever owned or used both commercial and amateur. 
  • Bob - W7KWS -
    Bob - W7KWS - Member ✭✭
    edited February 2018

    Many rigs have a squelch for HF but few work very well. On most rigs setting squelch to a usable level is difficult due to QSB constantly varying received signal strengths.

    I've heard of a workable approach to HF squelch for SSB that detects speech or another that compares the energy in the upper & lower sideband channels but it's not clear to me of their effectiveness with other modes.

    57 years as a ham & I can't remember anyone ever using HF squelch due to these reasons.

    Flex could add marginal squelch that doesn’t work any better than other rigs but duplicating mediocrity hasn’t been their style. It seems to me that taking on this difficult task would be a huge diversion of resources that should go elsewhere.

    As a Flex 6300 owner I encourage Flex to proceed on the current plan until they have time to do it better than anyone else.

  • Norm - W7CK
    Norm - W7CK Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    Well I bought my 6700 because it has 8 slice receivers.  That's 8 different receivers that can be use on any band on any mode all at the same time.  A squelch that works as well as any of the many Icom, Kenwood or Yaesu HF rigs that have come out over the past 15-20 years would be great.

    I would like to use it for monitoring openings on both 2m SSB and 6m SSB.  I also have a few marine frequencies, and a few frequencies on 160, 40 and 20m that I listen to on a continual basis.  It would be very nice to have a squelch that I could turn up the volume but not have to listen to the background hiss / white noise all day long.  The AGC-T isn't a substitute for squelch. 

    I have 8 slice receivers and I'd like to be able to use them more comfortably.  How difficult is squelch on SSB?  Shoot every rig on the market has it.  

    Norm
  • Ken - NM9P
    Ken - NM9P Member ✭✭
    edited June 2020
    While at present I don't usually use squelch on HF other than FM, with the 6500 and multiple slices it has become more appealing to me.  Especially when monitoring for band openings on 6 meters while talking on other bands.  I can see it especially effective with the following enhancements...

    1) When the second (or third or fourth) slice is squelched, the audio levels act just as if they were muted, meaning that the audio power is NOT balanced between the various slices.  When squelch is broken, the audio power sharing is implemented.

    2) It would be especially nice if the SSB Squelch was based upon audio detection of the voice rather than merely based upon signal strength.  This would prevent random noise bursts, sweeps, carriers, etc. from opening the squelch.  This would be much more effective.

    3) It would be really nice to have some type of encoded squelch similar to DCS or the tone burst used on aviation HF that could be used to open the squelch on a channel - i.e. for EOC uses, emergency nets, etc.  it could be as simple as sending a string of dits, an encoded sequences of pulses, or a two or three tone burst similar to the automatic mode identification on some of the digital modes. 

    My main thought in any of these options, and in using an HF squelch in general, is to limit unnecessary noise in my receiver speakers or headphones, especially when monitoring fairly inactive bands while working other bands at the same time.  Even when sliding one or two slices to the right or left and adjusting AGC-t carefully, the extra noise is distracting.  It is especially distracting when trying to work a new weak one.

    Ken - NM9P
  • Norm - W7CK
    Norm - W7CK Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Bob,
    I have squelch on 2 Icom rigs and a Yaesu rig that works just fine on SSB.  I use it all the time for 6m openings and to listen to the maritime mobile net on 14.300.  Works fine!
  • Bob - W7KWS -
    Bob - W7KWS - Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    Norm,

    I guess it must be a difference between our operating practice. I've never found squelch reliable having used a very long list of rigs over the years, most recently a K3, Kenwood TS-590, Icom IC-756 PRO, among others.

    A few years ago, I was one of the net control operators for the Pacific Seafarer's net on 14.300. The many signals from around the Pacific varied so much that if I'd set the squelch for a particular level, there would have been a high probability of missing many calls due to multipath fading taking signals below the squelch set point. Setting it lower and noise bursts would keep it open much of the time.

    I think that multi-mode HF squelch can be done well but it isn't trivial to make it "set and forget". In my expierience, none of the dozens of rigs I've owned from all manufacturers from Collins forward
    Have done it well. I hope when they get to it at Flex that they do it right.

    Please give me some insight on how you use squelch and the radio model you use. I have 14 HF transceiver models around here & I'd like to duplicate your experience. Thanks!
  • Bob N7ZO
    Bob N7ZO Member ✭✭
    edited February 2017

    I use NR cranked all the way up (with AGC set properly) as a “soft” squelch.  Throughout the sporadic E season, I normally have a second panadapter and slice open monitoring 50.125 using this technique and have found the results acceptable.

    Bob, N7ZO
  • Burt Fisher
    Burt Fisher Member ✭✭
    edited August 2016
    But it works, I just go watch TV or read a book
  • Steve Gw0gei
    Steve Gw0gei Member
    edited August 2015
    I use squelch on 6m ssb one one slice and on 4m Tvtr via 10m if on the second slice to monitor both bands ssb calling frequencies most days. I have owned ic575 current ic7400 and various yaesu and a recent ts590 all of which had satisfactory squelch operation on ssb. The current squelch on my 6300 is flaky when listening to 4m fm and often needs switching on and off . I often have both slices on same band too - monitoring 50150 and 50110. Or 70200 and 70450. It's not a game changer but it is a needed feature for those of us who spend as much time on VHF as we do on lf 73 Steve gw0gei
  • Tim - W4TME
    Tim - W4TME Administrator, FlexRadio Employee admin
    edited March 2017
    Thanks everyone for sharing your use cases.  We'll factor this data in when making our next release planning decisions.
  • Dave Dave
    Dave Dave Member ✭✭
    edited August 2015
    Factor in this, I cant find a radio less then 15 years old that don't have squelch.
  • Bill -VA3WTB
    Bill -VA3WTB Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    give it a rest Dave, those remarks are getting really old....
  • Martin AA6E
    Martin AA6E Member ✭✭
    edited December 2016
    So I, for one, have an HF use case!  I'd like a real squelch for FreeDV operation.   I could go either way on this, but at times I think I'd like to squelch the noise when there is no FDV signal on channel. 

    On the other hand, when there is a weak FDV signal, the radio will go quiet until you get a successful decode.  That's kind of nice, too.

    It's nothing to lose sleep over.
  • K6OZY
    K6OZY Member ✭✭
    edited August 2015
    I have requested a FDV squelch many times.  The open source modem has that by default.  I do not want to hear the analog side if no FDV signal is present.
  • Steve-N5AC
    Steve-N5AC Community Manager admin
    edited December 2016
    We talked with the FreeDV team before implementation and they recommended not implementing a squelch.  Here's the logic -- many HFers find the digital modes to be a nuisance, but the thing that really torques them is when a digital mode person will transmit over a SSB / CW signal because they are not listening.  In order to have the best "good neighbor" rating, the decision was made from the FreeDV guys not to allow squelch.  I hear and "got" the logic so we also did not implement it that way.
  • K6OZY
    K6OZY Member ✭✭
    edited August 2015
    Couldn't that be said about any squelch, not just FDV squelch?

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